Is the Future of Mental Health Plant Medicine? – With Joseph Sheehey

Dr. Mindy
So okay, Joe. So we have to welcome by the way this. This is a really important topic because I think mental health is a huge topic right now. And I love where we’re gonna go with this with CBD and psilocybin and psychedelics. I think they’re greatly misunderstood right now. And a lot of people are opening their eyes to it. But can we can you start and let us know how an aerospace engineer turns into a psychedelic expert?

Joseph Sheehey
I love that. Well, first off, thank you for having me. And yeah, it’s uh, so my company cured Nutrition has been around for five years. But people asked me the question, when did you start the company and I’m like, Well, I wasn’t five years ago, it was really about 11 years ago. And that’s where this, this whole story really started. So 11 years ago, today, I’m, well, it’s summer. So if we were in school, I would be in school, I would be in my first senior year, I took to your senior years in college, at the University of Colorado, studying aerospace engineering, had been interning at one of the biggest defense contractors in the world, Lockheed Martin. And at the same time, I’d also been living a very destructive lifestyle. So I’d been making decisions to more or less surround myself with individuals that were great human beings, but by surrounding myself with those people, I did not make good decisions. So the reframe of the situation was, who I was, and the decisions that I was making when I was in college were not an integrity and not and not who I wanted to be. And deep down there, there was a Joe problem, it wasn’t a personal problem of surrounding myself with the wrong people at the core, it was there was a Joe problem. And the decisions that I was making were extremely destructive. Every drug underneath the sun, when it comes to what you run into in college was something that became a part of my life. And I found myself five out of seven days a week, partying, and more or less numbing, more or less trying to escape from a lot of internal distress. And I didn’t know it at the time. But it all came to a head on a Tuesday morning, at about 2:30am, I came out of a blackout. And I was on the other edge of a guardrail of a bridge. And I was ready to end my life, I almost jumped off that bridge that early morning. And what the person was doing underneath that bridge that ended up pulling me back over the guardrail, I do not know. And I’m forever grateful for that person. But that event, woke me up to a lot of internal internal misalignment and internal just distress, I was in a place where I recognized that, wow, I have gotten this far away from being the person it is that I want to be. And I nearly almost ended my life. And I knew I was anxious, I knew I was struggling with

just not being who it is I want it to be. There’s this person that shows up on a day to day basis, that we say we are and then there’s the person that we truly are. And when that gap becomes wide enough. We’re just clinging on to trying to be that person. And when we’re in that state, it’s pretty easy for somebody outside looking in to poke a hole in the fact that you’re not the person that you say you are. But sometimes we don’t recognize that it’s that obvious. And for me, the gap between who it is I was and who it is I really wanted to be became so large that my anxiety really turned into depression. And I found myself nearly wanting to end my life and, and the next day, I was admitted to the hospital, I was under 24 hour surveillance. And at the time, the doctor asked, you know, we’re gonna run some tests, is there anything that we could find in your system? And my parents were actually at the hospital at this point. And a better question would have been, what would you not find in my system because everything that you could imagine was running around and the college party scene was in my system, and I was at the core of the problem because I was making a decision, but I was instantly put on antidepressants. I continued to drink, I continued to struggle with alcohol. And it came to a point where my parents just had to pull me out of Boulder Colorado moved me back home and completely pun intended, I guess completely reset my life. I had to get to a point where I was completely separated from the people. I surround myself with the ability to make these decisions that were literally almost ending my life. And as I mentioned, I was on the doorstep of what I had worked so hard for was to get the career in aerospace engineering and I had the internship happened, I was getting close to getting a full time job offer. But not only was I about to lose that opportunity, because of the decisions I was making out, I was almost lost my life. And so 11 years ago now today, I started on this journey to really be the person that I want it to be, I want it to be the person that set a strong example for taking care of himself and pursuing this life to its full potential. And that led me into the bodybuilding world. I also realized that the bodybuilding world wasn’t healthy after several years. But in that world, I met a lot of individuals that were on the same path. They said, hey, you know, I’ve experienced traumatic experiences my life or I’ve done these things wrong. And I’m able to now pursue pain or push, push my pain energy into a pursuit that is like pushing my body to its full potential. And of course, there are very unhealthy aspects of the bodybuilding world as well. But I started to meet a lot of people that were just trying to change their life through this pursuit. But what continued to happen was as I first started a podcast, and at this time, I did get the job in aerospace engineering, and I was working full time for a very big defense contractor. I still have this itch to do something outside of the career I was pursuing. And I had started a podcast and the podcast, was first called committed physiques radio, a bunch of body builders, and we were committed to this external appearance of health. But as I started this podcast, I started to ask a lot of people questions that were deeply personal and like, why are you why are you in this pursuit? And then we would end the podcast and people would start asking me, you know, have you ever experienced with cannabis? Have you ever experimented with CBD? Have you ever experimented with psychedelics? And I said, Yeah, and I’ve also spent for almost five years now sober after that period of very dark time in my life. But I started to become very curious about cannabis again, and I started to become very curious about psilocybin again. And as there’s this hand raising of people saying, like, I’m interested in it, and I use it, or it’s benefited me, continue to come up, but we wouldn’t talk about it publicly. I would always say I was like, gosh, there’s something here’s like, why don’t people talk about this publicly. And I being in Colorado, and having marijuana be recreational legalized, I was in a place where I was like, You know what, I want to start exploring this again, I do believe it could help me I was still taking anti anxiety medications. And as I mentioned earlier in this podcast, Joe was the problem in those in those years in college, it wasn’t the people that I surrounded myself with. It wasn’t the substances, specifically cannabis and psilocybin, which were a part of my life. It was me using alcohol using other party drugs that became very destructive. So the core was Joe was the problem. But now here’s an opportunity where I’ve worked on Joe, and I’m in a state where marijuana is recreationally legalized, and these things, these different cannabinoids continue to pop up CBD all over the sea, are all over the place. Yeah. And I said, I’m going to go back into the dispensary. And I’m going to start to explore this. And I started to use CBD. And it really started helping me calm myself down in the evening and helped me sleep. And it helped me wake up and feel refreshed. And I said, You know what? There’s something here and I hear more and more people talking about it. Yep. Retail No, publicly, no, publicly. No, yeah, it was what launched this whole thing. So that’s, that’s how we got.

Dr. Mindy
Yeah, you know, it’s so funny because I so resonate with your story. That is exactly what happened to me on this topic. And as far as like podcasting, you would have these conversations, and this is a little behind the scenes for those of you that are listening to podcasting is there’s the public conversation. And then there’s the post conversation. Yep. And then oftentimes, I think we should keep the recording button going. Because the post conversation I’ve learned more from my guests, sometimes in the actual public conversation. Yeah. And to your point, I last summer, I had a conversation with two really smart medical doctors. One and this was the I can say this publicly, but it was Dr. Sarah Godfried. I talked with her about how do we go after hormones and trauma? And how do we take emotional traumas to and solve them and she said ketamine. And then when I asked Austin Perlmutter, who’s an internist and specializes in the brain when I asked him what he thought the future of mental health was, he said psychedelics, and I couldn’t believe last summer these two people that are in this what we look as conservative medicine world are advocating for these psychedelics, and it, I think the time has come that we have to revisit this. You know, we have been warped into I know, the generation I grew up in was, this is your brain on drugs, and it was like an egg in a pan. And then I’ve got Austin Perlmutter, talking about new neurons that are being grown in the brain, what and that and BDNF that gets up regulated, that gives you a sense of happiness when you do psilocybin. So I am so happy to lead with that story. Because I feel like as as people are listening to this, I really want people to wake up to understand that meant the future of mental health is in these plant medicines. We just don’t understand enough yet. So would you agree on that got

Joseph Sheehey
so many chills, I just got so many chills because the truth, we have to ask ourselves why? Like, why did we get here and you literally said, you know, your brain on drugs reefer madness that came out in the 1930s, the DARE program that I grew up in, in school where marijuana was the same as heroin? Yep, those two were made the same. That’s so so we asked ourselves, why, why? Why were those individuals on my podcast or your guests? Why did this conversation happen outside the actual recording? Well, it’s because we’re nervous, we’re nervous, we’re nervous to have people change their opinion on who we are, because of something that we utilize to, to better our health to better the way that we show up as a human being like so many things. But like at the core, like, we want to become who it is we were meant to be. And that requires a lot of internal work. And it can be supported by these things. And if we can start to open up the conversation, and change the narrative, then we won’t be so afraid to talk about it publicly. But the thing is, is we’ve all been experiencing a narrative for far too long. And if it started, it even started before the 1930s, early 1900s was really when the war on cannabis started. But then, of course, we know the 60s and 70s. And after that, it was a war on specific drugs. And then everything got lumped together. And now we’re in more or less this type of, we’re kind of in a renaissance. But the most important piece of this is it needs to be led with education, and also looking at the people who are talking about it. Yes. And what is their life actually, like? Are they the Cheech and Chong stoner sitting on a couch eating a bunch of potato chips? Or are they a professional purse, Professional Individual that I was responsible for $500 million spacecrafts for a part of my life. I did use cannabis outside of that. And was I supposed to know I wasn’t. But I did. Because it was something that really helped me. And that is the problem was, we lived in this time, or we’ve we’ve experienced a time where the conversation just hasn’t been standing on the proper foundation. And now it is. So now these conversations are really like okay, well, I’m interested, I hear it coming up more and more. Now I need to start to understand that more ability to study it needs to happen, more ability to ask the questions and just really be guides to experiencing these medicines in a light that is different than this story that we all tell ourselves, because if we can step out of the story that we’ve been conditioned to know, then it opens us up to opportunity for another path and alternative path.

Dr. Mindy
Yeah, it’s so well said that what what also helped me grab a hold of this information as somebody who always wants to do the most natural thing for her body was somebody said that if you look at where we’ve come with psychedelics, it’s like the Timothy Leary phase, the 60s and 70s the messaging was do out LSD and drop out of society and you can live in this boundary lists world then there was the you know, not to throw all these people under the bus but then there was the Nancy Reagan, you know, just say no, this is your, your brain on drugs. That’s the generation I grew up in. And now we have a third wave that’s coming which is actually saying that these are so helpful, but they we need to understand them and we need to be respectful of them. So let’s start with CBD. How what do we need to know about it like I can tell you as somebody lives in California, that I can get CBD at my local I can have delivered my can of marijuana delivered to my front door. And I find as a 52 year old woman, it is a game changer for my sleep. Yeah, so what do I need to know if I’m looking at a menu of what to order? How do I know indica sativa? How do I know if it’s a healthy strain or not?

Joseph Sheehey
Yeah, that’s a great question. I think that to take a wider look at everything is when we say cannabis we’re talking about a really like a species of plant right a genus of plant and then below cannabis, there’s hemp and marijuana, but hemp and marijuana are both cannabis they’re all the same mother or genus plant. The best terminology for that but the difference between hemp and marijuana is literally at the federal level. Hemp is cannabis with less than point 3% thc dry weight and then marijuana has greater than point 3% thc so what is THC? THC is tetrahydrocannabinol which is one out of over 100 node cannabinoids in the cannabis plant. And then CBD cannabidiol is another of those over 100 cannabinoids in the cannabis plant so we’re talking about THC and CBD but if we start with CBD, CBD is not an intoxicating cannabinoid when so when people think marijuana they think THC they think intoxicating. They think high. But CBD and a wide array of other cannabinoids aren’t actually intoxicating. But they are psychoactive. They do have an effect in the brain. And there was this conversation for a while that is CBD is non psychoactive. It actually is psychoactive. It’s not intoxicating. So I wanted to start with that differences. THC is more intoxicating. CBD is not intoxicating, but CBD is a cannabinoid that has great anti inflammatory like properties. And it also has properties that almost mimic like a GABA type effect where it can help you calm. So a lot of the times, most people can’t fall asleep because they can’t calm their mind. So if we can calm our mind, then we can fall asleep. And if we can fall asleep and have a deep night’s sleep, then we can recover our entire body not just our body, but also our brain. And then we wake up the next day and we can do all the normal human things. So that’s a very simple way of looking at it. But cannabinoids can modulate and bind to receptors in your system, the endocannabinoid system in the body that has CB one and CBT receptors, and the endocannabinoid system is really known for basically normal human bodily functions. It’s help it’s helping the body achieve homeostasis, so it’s helping the body with the stress response. And then it’s also responsible for your sleep wake cycle, your mood, your appetite. So these are all very normal things in CBD can be viewed as you’ve probably heard the term adaptogen which is really helping the body with its stress response so CBD if you were to walk into a dispensary, you would hear the terminologies that you’re saying so indica, sativa. Typically indica is known as like, my dad has this joke. He goes, indica in the couch. Yeah, he says sativa social so it’s kind of kind of thing. sativa is like more uplifting and an indica is more like end of the day helping you wind down. But it’s even come it’s, I think that that’s almost an oversimplification. It’s the expression of the cannabinoids in an extract. So if it’s high CBD or high THC, in addition to terpenes, which are almost like the flavor profile, think of lavender as almost like a terpene. The combination of the terpenes and Cambon cannabinoids create the effect so high CBD is going to be more calming high THC might be more intoxicating, making you feel high. But all of the cannabinoids in the cannabis plant actually have a benefit to them. And when they’re combined, they are they work synergistically and they create what’s known as the entourage effect. So when you go into dispensary, you want to ask about and look at the test results to see what concentration of cannabinoids there are. And a lot of times CBD in combination with very low dose THC is going to be more effective than CBD by itself because they work synergistically.

Dr. Mindy
So and that’s been my experience is that and this is the way I heard it is that CBD by itself when you don’t have THC in it, you’re not actually getting both of those receptors stimulated. And so why moving from just a plain CBD to a CBD with a little bit of THC is because you get to activate both those receptor sites is that the way that is? Is that correct?

Joseph Sheehey
That’s a great way to explain it and then even even look at thinking like more holistically is when we say just CBD. We’re just talking about one molecule, right? So if you think about a plant in the ground, that then gets cultivated and then it goes through an extraction process to get down to one molecule. That means you’re refining it more so you go through and extraction process whether it’s co2 or alcohol, then you could go through a distillation that can strip off some more cannabinoids, and then you can get down to a single cannabinoid. But if we want to take a more holistic approach, the least refined extract is going to be the most holistic and the most closest to its natural form. And in that form, it’s going to have multiple cannabinoids in it. So it’s there’s multiple ways to look at it. But I think that to be completely transparent, I think that the further that you get away from whole plant, the closer we’re getting to, for the pharmaceutical world, like I think that it’s just like, we’re just, you know, we’re isolating, isolating, isolating, isolating onset, there’s nothing wrong with that. I wouldn’t be here if it weren’t for, you know, modern medicine. There’s so many great things about it. But I also think there’s an and and another opportunity. So what you’re saying is, they work together to create a more potent effect. That doesn’t mean that CBD by itself can’t work.

Dr. Mindy
Right? Yeah. And that, you know, when I first started to understand the endo cannabinoid system, which blew me away, that we actually have let’s just point that out for a moment that we have a system within our body that requires CBD molecules to come in. And our body makes its own right. That’s it. So but the first time I heard that, I was like, You mean our brains have receptor sites for cannabis? And nature has grown cannabis in many different forms. So our body and nature in so many other places, click and come together? Why wouldn’t they do the same in this scenario? And once I wrapped my head around that I was like, Oh, my God, we’re like i My first thought was like, all the stoners that were sitting on the couch. They were onto something I didn’t know.

Joseph Sheehey
Yeah, well, that’s, that’s the thing is like, you know, when I look back at my life, and I look back at those those destructive years, yes, I was partying, but then I was like, Okay, so when would I use cannabis? And I go, Okay, well, typically, I would be hiking. So I was out in nature. And I was like, Wow, I feel really connected to nature. And you can look at that from like, a spiritual perspective and say, I was using something that I was meant to use. And now I feel more connected to nature, like, whoa, okay, there’s something there. And then I would be, I would be more creative, or I would relax at night. So it was like, the use case was just off when I was combining with a bunch of other things. And you’re right, there’s something there. Like, we literally, if we look back over the course of human history, 5000 years ago, was when cannabis first started showing up in in Pharmacopoeia 5000 years ago. And like, we’re like, okay, so how old is the US the 1700s? That’s like, a couple 100 years old, but like, this has been something that’s existed, and more or less evolved and grown with humans, like it’s always been with us. So why wouldn’t we be utilizing it? And to your point, other things can regulate our endocannabinoid system, like black pepper can actually regulate our system. So it’s, there are multiple things and a wide variety of things that can regulate that system. But then the question is, arises like, if we have the system? Of course, wouldn’t it make sense to utilize exogenous outside the body cannabinoids to improve what this system can do for our body?

Dr. Mindy
Right? Yeah, yeah. And so here was the dilemma that I would once I wrap my head around this was like, Okay, how do I get a clean source? So knowing that the cannabis plant, whether it’s hemp or marijuana is a big issue, those roots will actually pick up heavy metals. So how do we get a clean source? And how do I know what I need? Do you have an answer for that?

Joseph Sheehey
Yeah, sorry. You asked that. And I didn’t I didn’t fully answer. No, no, it’s 100.

Dr. Mindy
Yeah, it was part of my journey of like, okay, if I’m going to do this, I want to do it in the in the healthiest way possible. And those are two of my biggest questions.

Joseph Sheehey
Yeah, sourcing sourcing matters so much. And the truth is hemp can remediate land which is beautiful, like you can have toxic land and hemp can literally remediate it. So that also means that toxins can be sucked up into the plant. So it’s really important to know where your hemp where your marijuana is coming from in in states like Colorado in California, we have very stringent testing that’s required to get into dispensaries. But if you’re ordering a hemp extract CBD which you can buy online and shipped nationwide, those regulations actually don’t exist. And when I first started getting into this business, I was like, wow, like the curtains pulled back of like the consumer product industry to start to think about supply chain and sourcing. I was like, Okay, well, I agree with the way that Colorado and California require heavy metal testing, pesticide testing, absence of microbial and also just homogeneity and light to total potency, making sure that the product actually contains what it says it contains, and to be sold in dispensaries in Colorado, that’s absolutely required. But we’re a company that derives our cannabinoids from hemp, and we sell it online. And those same regulations didn’t exist. So being an engineer, my business partners and engineers, well, we’re like, we’re gonna like, we’re actually going to do all of this. Because not only is we don’t think that that’s like a hoop that you have to jump through, we actually think that that’s something that’s going to create a business that’s going to be in integrity and lasts the test of time. But you’re right, heavy metals can show up pesticides, of course, like pesticides from grow, cultivating any crop, but then also microbial like, depending on how the actual extract and the cannabis is hung, dried, cured and processed, and gone through the extraction process. And then also just like does this product have what the bottle actually says it has, because unfortunately, as CBD became very popular, there was companies that just slapped an acronym on a label and put it out into the market. And a lot of people say, like, oh, there’s a potential, like, there’s this thing that I heard works really well. And they buy it from an unreputable source, and it doesn’t have what it said it has in it. And then so not only does that company do a disservice to that person, and also do a disservice to the industry. Because if you get a low quality product, and it doesn’t work for you, then why would you be like, okay, like, I’m still going to continue to try like it didn’t work. But you actually didn’t get a product that had the cannabinoid concentration that it needed, or it could have other components in it. And so that raises the question of like, what do we look for. So a lot of companies don’t do this. But us as an online retailer, if you scroll to the footer of our website, we have our quality control library, and you can see publicly, every single batch that we put out into the market, you can see all of those tests that we just went through. And you can see those when you go into a dispensary as well. Sometimes they’re not as forward facing. So you have to ask for them. We, as the consumer have to like we have we have to take responsibility, right.

Dr. Mindy
So what’s a question to ask? Do you ask like, what do you how do you test your product? Do we know what the testing regulations like if somebody, let’s say they live in a city, where it’s not Lee, or a state where it’s not legal? And they want to get a CBD product, just in general? How what’s the proper question to ask to know that they’ve done enough testing?

Joseph Sheehey
Yeah, perfect. So I would if there is if it’s not forward facing, it’s honestly not forward facing for a lot of companies. But we just wanted to do that. Because we’re like, hey, like, we want to set a strong example, if it’s not forward facing, email the company and just say, Hey, I’m really interested in this CBD oil. And so if it says 1000 milligrams, ask them for batch testing results, and you better expect to see that batch on the bottom of the bottle, and then having test results that match that batch. And then within those batch testing results you can look for, okay, did they do heavy metal testing? Is there an absence of heavy metals? Did they do pesticide testing is there an absence of pesticides in absence of microbial, and then when it comes to homogeneity, import potency, you should be able to see that if this thing says it has 1000 milligrams in it, they should show you test results that show 1000 milligrams of cannabinoids in these test results. And that’s a really fair question to ask. And if a company can’t answer that, I would not buy from them because they’ve either done one of two things. One, they haven’t tested their product or two, they just white label from a manufacturer and they don’t actually retest it themselves. And that’s a that’s you’re not getting a high quality product, if that’s the company you’re buying from.

Dr. Mindy
Yeah, yeah. And I’ve had patients do that before I’ve had them send them and it’s really interesting. Some of the some of the responses are like, yes, we test for them. And I’m like, that’s not an answer. I wanted. I saw I love what you just said about the ask for the batch, the testing the batch testing and look at it. I think that’s brilliant. Now what what do you feel like the go to symptoms are that you’re like, Oh, you need to start to integrate CBD and CBD with THC or however we look at it. What’s the sign that you know, you might need to integrate it into your life?

Joseph Sheehey
Yeah, that’s a great question. And a lot of times, this is a very interesting way to answer this. But a lot of times, it’s like, implementing CBD in your routine is almost like implementing a new diet. So like, you’re going to take it and you gotta give it time and you have to be consistent. A lot of times people will stop taking it and they’ll see symptoms come back. But a lot of people either use it for the calming effects to really help them with sleep, but I also use it like I literally will take CBD before a podcast before speaking engagement before speaking to my team like I still get nervous before I was speaking to my team, my employees like that’s a great way to use As it but honestly, I think it’s a great alternative for other anti inflammatories out there in the world. And so if you are somebody that you know, had, you know, if you have aches and pains, or you’re aging, and you want to be able to take something that’s just different, this is a great opportunity to start integrating it daily. And that’s why I started with it’s just like starting a new diet or nutrition protocol is, you do need to take it daily because your endocannabinoid system that we discussed earlier, can become more or less deficient. So think getting deficient in vitamin D, which so many people are, it’s gonna take time to get therapeutic levels in your system. So if you’re somebody looking for recovery properties, or the anti inflammatory like properties, this is like an ideal product for you. Sometimes people just use it case by case when they’re experiencing, you know, a little bit of pain and they want some relief, and they take much higher dosages. But then that’s when the THC would come in because THC is actually better for more of like the pain reduction effects versus the anti inflammatory like properties that CBD has. So those are two main reasons. But go

Dr. Mindy
ahead. Yeah, on that note, you actually do have me thinking that what could be helpful for those of us that don’t want to walk around with a THC sort of stoned brain during the day is you do like what you were talking about a daily dosage of a product like one that you guys have and build that system up. And then would you come in in cycle in doses of CBD with THC but not use them every day?

Joseph Sheehey
Yeah, that’s a great question. So CBD can almost counteract the effects of THC. So sometimes when people will take like a 30. Our most potent product has 30 milligrams of CBD and one milligram of THC. But the CBD and that actually counteracts the effects of the THC. So it’s not like you’re walking around feeling high. Or sometimes people take THC and they get anxious, the CBD counteracts that. So what you said is you could still take a full spectrum extract every single day with very low concentration of THC. If the THC feels too much, what I would do is I would split it into two dosages. So I would do like a morning dose, and then an evening dose. And I actually haven’t, I really have never, I started the company and I take CBD every day. And I’ve taken every day since I started. But in like the traditional Chinese medicine world, there’s this, there’s this rule of thumb for adaptogens specifically, which I do believe CBD should be classified as an adaptogen. They do this like six to one rotation. So it’s six days on, one day off, six days on one day off, or six weeks on one week off six months on one month off, and it is kind of like a reset. But as you’re saying you could take just straight THC free CBD, you might just need to take a higher dosage to feel the same effects that you might feel with a low dose THC extract. Some people can’t take THC because they have to take drug tests. So we have THC free products. What we’ve noticed is you just have to take a higher dose of CBD. But exactly as you’re saying, You got to be consistent with it. And sometimes people will say the reason I started this with is like, it’s like a new a new diet or nutrition program is you’ll take it for two to three or two to three weeks for like, I don’t actually feel this. You come off and you’re like, oh, like my aches and pains are coming back. You’re like, Oh, I was actually working. But it was just really subtle.

Dr. Mindy
Yeah, yeah. And it sounds a lot like microdose seen that. I experimented with some microdose in this year. And there’s a there’s a protocol of going on for a couple of days and then coming off and yeah, I think that’s brilliant. What do you think about the difference between smoking? I know you know, we’re talking about CBD with THC and a product like yours. But let’s say somebody has access to it like in California, or Colorado. Do we do we think that smoking marijuana or tinctures or gummies? Is there a difference for your health? Because my brain says Smokings not good. Doesn’t matter how clean it is. Yeah.

Joseph Sheehey
Yeah. And I would agree with you. Although there’s not like documented signs of cancer or any marijuana. So it’s like, I agree with you. And it’s like, well, there’s literally like there’s no known cannabis death ever.

Dr. Mindy
Yeah, I saw an article that came out of Harvard health. That literally said there was no difference between smoking marijuana on your overall health and doing gummy or a tincture? And that blew me away. I still struggle with that one.

Joseph Sheehey
Yeah. So where I would go with that is one if you’re going to smoke and you’re going to use like a flower, of course you want to look for those test results because those pesticides and things can be showing up, too. If you’re doing like those vapes, there’s terrible carrier oil. Yes. So that’s is a lot of times when you hear, I mean, there’s so many issues around that. But like, a lot of times when you hear about issues around vapes, it’s the carrier oil, so it’s the oil that the extract goes in, and then everything else can show up in that so I would go honestly, the our best selling products are capsules, they’re they’re a gelatin encapsulated capsules, and they they’re more efficacious because you get a very concentrated dose into your system and it’s processed through your liver versus a tincture, you put it underneath your tongue and it’s sublingual, I don’t believe you get the same absorption. I do believe it’s a quicker onset, because it’s sublingual, and directly into your bloodstream. But if we were to think about quickest onset to longest time for onset, smoking is going to be the quickest onset, then the next would be what I’ve noticed is tincture underneath the tongue slept sublingual, but I haven’t noticed that that’s as concentrated as taking a capsule, then of course, if you take a capsule is going to be like 30 to 45 minutes, I would always push people towards the capsule. The capsule side and then typically, so cannabinoids are fat soluble. So we use a high quality organic medium chain triglyceride MCT oil as our carrier oil. And it helps carry the cannabinoids and allows the body to help process the cannabinoids and utilize them. So some people I recommend like, Hey, if you’re going to take it with a meal, have a nice high quality, fat enriched meal. And I’ve noticed that that’s actually more effective when you’re taking the capsules than taking it on an empty stomach. So you kind of look at it from like, onset time. And then of course delivery method. There are edibles out there that are great. But then there are a lot of edibles out there that have like all the food coloring, and sugar. And so I think for just kind of like while you’re digging something that can help you but you’re also putting a bunch of sugar into your system. So

Dr. Mindy
So So here’s what’s funny, I’m actually thinking, when you were talking about the carrier oil being MCT, my fasting brain was thinking, Gosh, this could be a cool tool for people in their fasting window. Because MCT oil will get you over the ketogenic energy system quicker. So when you’re trying to go without food and get those ketones, and then the CBD the way you guys have it with the THC in there is going to calm you. And when you bring cortisol down now you can get better regulation of insulin. So, but I also see your way, I’m also thinking this could be a really cool tool for the hundreds of 1000s of people that fast with us every month to help them elongate their fast.

Joseph Sheehey
Wow. I never thought about it that way. One thing that I would say and I’d be interested to ask you this would. So the reason why I said pairing it with fats is sometimes I noticed when I take the capsule, and if I don’t if I have an empty stomach, I and then and then I haven’t eaten but I eat like an hour or two later. I’ll notice the onset of it like three hours later. So that was one thing that I’d be curious about is maybe underneath the tongue would be better in that case versus the capsule,

Dr. Mindy
like you would would you open the capsule up and just you could just put the powder under the tongue, right?

Joseph Sheehey
It’s a it’s a liquid so you couldn’t hold it underneath your tongue. But also the oil droppers you know, you just shake those, put them underneath the tongue and hold it for 30 to 60 seconds. I don’t know the answer to that. Well, I think that that’s really interesting.

Dr. Mindy
I’m gonna go find out because here’s the beautiful thing is we have an army of people that wear CGM, continuous glucose monitor and test their ketones and our fasting so we’re going to try it with like our Academy members. Like, yeah, I’ll let you know. I’ll report back we’ll,

Joseph Sheehey
we’ll test we’ll hook you guys up. We’ll just sit here. Here’s a big shipment because that’s, that’s but that’s what we need to do more of like as we started this podcast is we need to be able to do this testing to truly figure out what’s actually going on. And it’s the same thing with psychedelics is like, the future is so bright. So many people from an anecdotal standpoint are raising their hands. Yes, yes, yes, yes. But there’s so much science and studying to still be done.

Dr. Mindy
Right. Yeah. Agreed. Okay, so let’s go to psilocybin because this is also at one that when I first heard it, I was like, what, and then when I look up psilocybin on PubMed, which is for people to know is like the resource of all research done out in the world that has been peer reviewed and done properly. Psilocybin It looks to grow new neurons in the prefrontal cortex. Okay? Well, the prefrontal cortex is our seat of logical thinking. It’s how we are able to accomplish tasks. And when you are lose neurons there, you lose creativity, you lose motivation, you become rigid in your thinking. So when you look at it from a science level, it’s profound what it can do for overall creativity and health. Yeah, people still think it’s still illegal here in in America, what do we need to know about psilocybin and how to do this to our, our mental advantage?

Joseph Sheehey
It is, it’s, it’s, it blows my mind. So one of the things that you’re speaking to is psychedelics, but if we’re speaking about specifically psilocybin, it has the ability to damp in what is known as the default mode network. And the default mode network is more or less our default way of operating. So you know, if you struggle with an eating disorder, if you struggle with, you know, certain behaviors that are your default mode of operating, like you show up, and I have this negative pattern that I always find myself, and I’m like, for so frustrated that I do this, that’s your default way of operating, that’s from one path to the next on on like a neurological basis, you operate in that single path. This is how I always do it. This is my default mode network. So psilocybin has the ability to dampen that. So what that means is, if we can utilize psilocybin and then start to enact different behaviors, that then allows us to create different ways of operating, which is exactly what you’re saying new neural pathways, new operating patterns. So if we can start to break down some of these negative habits that some of us have, which is our default way of operating, then we can create a new way of operating, it’s like, the Think of the default mode network is almost like this idea of the path of least resistance, the path of least resistance is the way that you always operate. So if you have some negative behavior that you always do, and like don’t take this as like, you’re doing something bad, but sometimes we all have like, like addictions, and like things that we do, or like, I always grab my phone, or I’m addicted to my phone, or whatever it may be. This allows us an opportunity to start to create a different way of operating. So some people asked me like, when do you microdose psilocybin? And I say, typically, I’ll do it. On days where I have to have difficult conversations within the walls of my business, not only does it create a more open way of experiencing life, I feel more open, I feel more loving, I feel more connected to other human beings. But if I can sit down and I can have a difficult conversation that I’m typically not very strong at, but then I can start to teach myself, well, I had this difficult conversation, I’m safe, I’m okay, I got to the other side of it. That’s a new way of operating a new neural pathway. And the effects of psychedelics, not just psilocybin are showing that this is actually possible to dampen our default mode network. So yeah, exactly. As you’re saying is like, it’s like, have you seen the documentary? How to change your mind? Yeah, I

Dr. Mindy
was just looking. I’m we’re just watching it now. And I’m, it’s, yeah, if you guys have those of you listening, you really need to go see this on Netflix, it is profound. The other one that really opened my eyes was the fantastic fungi, like that will really give you a whole new idea of what psilocybin can do so but Michael Pollan did an amazing job on Yeah, on his how to how the brain changed series. So what how did I mean, I know this is a public podcast, but like, how do we how do we get access to this stuff? And once again, how do we know that it’s safe? How do we know it’s non toxic? I can tell you from micro dosing psilocybin, I’ve had some really positives, creativity, I just wrote a book called fast like a girl. And I had hit a writer’s block. And I used micro dosing to overcome the writer’s block. And it was profound. It was amazing how much I just felt like the inspiration and the words were coming right to my brain. But then I’ve also used versions of micro dosing psilocybin, where I’ve had an intense amount of anxiety. And what people say about psilocybin is that it often brings up like it bubbles to the surface things that you need to deal with. Yeah. So do you have How do we know to find a clean source of that and how we would go about using that in an era where it’s not necessarily yet?

Joseph Sheehey
Yeah, it’s kind of a tricky question. What I would say is that one thing you’ll hear show up in the psychedelic space in conversations all the time is set and setting and what we what what’s by that is mind set, like, what’s your mindset going into the use of a psychedelic? And what’s the actual like physical setting? What’s your environment? What are you around? Is there a bunch of noise? Are you at a wild concert? Are you at home in a comfortable place where like you can lay on the couch. And typically it’s more important for high dose, but it can happen at low dose to where, you know, your mindset was a little bit off. And that’s literally like the foundation from which you start the experience. And so setting setting is the most important thing you’ll hear that come up all the time. And when it comes to sourcing, so I’ll be super clear, cured nutrition sells a bunch of cannabinoid products, we do sell low dose THC products, we do sell CBD products. In our functional mushroom and adaptogen. world, we don’t sell psychedelic mushrooms, we do sell a product that’s great for in combination with microdose. And I’ll talk about that in a minute. But from a sourcing perspective, so many people are starting to actually cultivate them on their own. So it’s really weird, but like

Dr. Mindy
grown in their own house. Yeah. Yes,

Joseph Sheehey
yeah. So I’ll send you some links. Because if it’s, if it’s interesting to me, like, I have a friend that runs a company, and this is a massive, highly reputable source. And I highly recommend anybody listening this podcast, one go, go watch how to change your mind. But then to go to the third wave. The third wave is an online psychedelic educational platform, my friend Paul Austin started the company. And he, there’s so much to be learned on that platform. And there’s actually kits to grow your own mushrooms at home, but they don’t actually sell the spores. So the spores to cultivate the mushrooms is what we have to figure out where to find those. And to be completely honest, like in Denver, where psilocybin has become decriminalized. People are selling it all over the place. So it’s kind of like a network thing. And I bet it’s pretty similar in California. But as soon as you start to ask more people that are in the space, I truly and I, it really warms my heart because there’s so many good hearts in this space. And a lot of people that just want this to work, because because we have done it wrong in the past is if you ask enough, you can start to find it. And in places like Colorado, Denver County, most California, Oregon, a lot of Pacific Northwest, of course, you’ll be able to find the spores, and you can actually create gene growth at your house. And that’s obviously the best way to do it. But then, you know, your local, your local favorite person can come into play. And then you know, I always say like, What is my relationship with this person? Can I actually go see the source. Same thing with manufacturing, any supplement that we have is we go to the actual farm, we go to the lab, we go to the manufacturer, you get to see it all. So you as the conscious consumer, for lack of better terms can actually make you can make a decision that you know, is okay, well, I’ve seen what’s behind it. But then of course, like, you know, it’s literal fungus. So there’s a lot of things to like look out for. And what I would say is that if you start to ask enough people in the space, you can start to find it. And if you’re in Colorado, you’ll definitely be able to find I’d probably say the same thing with COC with California. But if you can learn to cultivate it on your own, then you’re going to be basically by down as much risk as possible.

Dr. Mindy
Yeah, I love that idea. And I would say in the side conversations I’ve been having, with so many people, again, I just want to highlight that you’re this I research, everything that I put into my body, and the people that are advocating for psilocybin CBD, I want to talk about ketamine here in a moment. I don’t know if you know much about it. But they these are professionals, educated, compassionate people that are looking for another resource for mental health. And it we have been so warped in how we look at these drugs. And it gets exciting to me to think that we might be able to grow a mushroom in our backyard and use that mushroom to help us grow a happier, healthier brain over time. I’m who could be opposed to like, that’s the key to this whole world we’re in is to get people out of the rigidity of their thinking and the suffering that those looping thoughts keep creating over and over and over. And we can grow a frickin mushroom in a planter box in our house and find a way to microdose it or use it in a way that grows us a brain that’s so much more open and enlightened and compassionate week. i That’s where I’m like we’re gonna change the world with that.

Joseph Sheehey
Yeah, yeah, I completely agree with you. One of our core values here at shirt is we are one we are one as human beings, we’re, you know, brothers and sisters living the same existence just in different bodies. And we’re one with nature as well. And a lot of times when you use, specifically high dose psilocybin, and as I mentioned, same with cannabis, but you go out on a hike, you go into nature, you literally see trees vibrating on a level that tells you, you are me, and I am you. And I love you. And like I’m like kind of tearing up right now. But like, that starts to change the way that we look at life, that starts to change the way that we look at individuals that have been through traumatic experiences, and things just come out sideways, because they’re a product of a poor childhood, or whatever it may be. But like we can, it’s just all like, you’re me. And I’m you and like, I love you. And like we’ve just experienced different experiences. And can we all agree that like, this world can be so much better and so much different? So I, we are one we are one with nature, we are one with each other. And there’s so much potential here. We’re doing it right by having these conversations and we just need to make sure that you know this continues to propagate correctly. I’m interested to hear about your experience potentially with ketamine or just thoughts on ketamine. I have not utilized it. Recently, I do know that there’s very exciting work around its ability to block and experience so if somebody experiences a traumatic event and they go to like the emergency room, I’m just like, hypothetically thinking, I think it has an ability to reduce the traumatic imprint of an experience. Correct me if I’m wrong, but I’m really excited about ketamine too. Yeah.

Dr. Mindy
So So what’s interesting with ketamine is so every year I pick one topic that I’m going to immerse myself in and this year was plant medicine and psychedelics because I just wanted to write it for my own brain. So, you know, everything we’ve talked about, up until now has been, I’ve tested and I’ve kind of worked with ketamine was a different, a different beast because it is a drug. And you have to go I wanted to go to a clinic somewhere where there was ketamine assisted therapy, I wanted to do it in some kind of container. So I went to field trip health. I don’t know if you know them. And the science that they have that’s excellent is one session of ketamine assisted therapy a week for six weeks, can totally obliterate drug resistant depression and anxiety. Like, I I’ve asked every single person I can find like, so what happens after six sessions of this after six weeks like, Are these people literally cured, and they’re like, they are literally cured, like the depression and anxiety gone. So I needed to go experience it myself. So I did two sessions. And I will tell you that what it does is it blocks the NMDA receptor sites. So that excitatory brain that has those looping thoughts that we all go through, or we can’t unthink the thought, and it’s causing us so much suffering, that was completely gone, like blocked after one session. I was way calmer. The experience itself was very enjoyable. But I my brain was calmer. And then the after the first session, I really felt like some things that weren’t working in my life were being pushed down that I pushed emotionally down. I couldn’t push them down anymore, I had to face them. And some of them were in relationships that I had with people that I just had to actually go talk to the person and be like, this isn’t working for me anymore. Now what’s beautiful about that is that repressed emotions cause disease. So the fact that I was able to get a hold of that, and then articulate it to the people that I needed to speak it to was was profound. So that was that was the first one. After the second session. Your point about set and setting is really important because after the second session, they said you have a new brain. So for the next 24 to 48 hours, be really mindful of what you put in your brain. So I immersed myself in Michael singers teachings. Do you know Untethered Soul?

Joseph Sheehey
Yeah. And the surrender experiment? Yes, God. That’s my favorite books.

Dr. Mindy
Have you read his new book?

Joseph Sheehey
No, I didn’t know he just came out with Yeah.

Dr. Mindy
It’s called Living untethered. And so I decided after the second ketamine, I would just read that book and listen to his podcast. Now, for those of you who aren’t familiar with Michael singer, his teachings are that suffering happens because we had a preference in how somebody should show up as a situation should be. And when somebody doesn’t show up that way, or the situation isn’t what we want. Then we start to create that looping in our brain where We’re like, I don’t like this, I hate this, this person’s not behaving the way I want them to behave. And so what I found in combination with doing ketamine and his teachings of letting go of that suffering, letting go of that preference, I, that was eight weeks ago, I have a different, I will profoundly say I have a different brain, things are not triggering me. Thoughts are not looping. I’m much calmer, I’m not reacting as much. And that was two sessions of ketamine game changer, game changer for me while

Joseph Sheehey
I’m ordering the book, the third book and

Dr. Mindy
go look at and the what field trip health is doing is they’re doing it in with a therapist next to you. And they’re doing it in a very controlled environment. So, again, this each step I’ve taken has only made my brain go, what is this? And how do we get it to the world because we have got mental health so wrong. And I’m sure you saw like the, there’s a bunch of news coming out that SSRIs are have been manipulated by recent bypassed research studies. And that low serotonin and depression don’t really go hand in hand and SSRIs aren’t really as great as we thought they were. Yeah, you did.

Joseph Sheehey
Yeah. And I’ve stayed pretty close to just observing that because that was literally like, the beginning of my story was instant. SSRIs. And it was not the answer for me. It does help some people. So it is like, that’s great. But there are other options here, right? And like, so yeah. There’s, what’s the story around? What’s the story around? Like, what’s the narrative? We have to ask ourselves? What’s the narrative? Where does it come from? Why do we exist where we do today? And yeah, there’s just there’s just such an exciting future. And the truth is, like you’re saying is, so many of us, as we start to do work, just maybe CBT like, like talk therapy for most people, there’s like a limit to it. There’s, it can help a lot of people. But sometimes we just feel stuck. And it’s like this like somatic thing that’s like stuck inside our body. And the psychedelic assisted psychotherapy is our breaking through that layer. Because so many people do so much work in there, like, I’m doing so much work, but I’m not changing, like what’s going on? And like, Don’t we all want that to actually work for people don’t we all want like our work to actually turn into like, come to fruition and say, like, I want to be a different person I’m putting in the work. I’m committed to doing this. But there’s still this blockage. So why wouldn’t we explore it more.

Dr. Mindy
And that’s where the third wave idea, I love that I’ve been to that website. And I love that concept that the third wave is saying that we’re not giving up talk therapy, we’re not giving up some of the tools. I mean, I it’ll be interesting to see the direction of SSRIs after all this new research is coming out. But what we’re gonna do is lean into another tool to stack it with my therapist to stack it with my meditation with all the mindfulness work. And when I can do those two together, it’s no longer like this stuff is a party trick. This is actually a way to change your brain over time. And I mean that Michael Pollan is doing a great job showing that on on his Netflix series,

Joseph Sheehey
yeah, he’s incredible. I haven’t been through the whole series, but I haven’t either. And it’s so

Dr. Mindy
it’s so good. It’s so good. Well, I love this conversation. And I gotta tell you, this is cathartic. I haven’t been this open on my podcast yet about, you know, what I’ve personally tried and, and where I see this going, I will say that I posted that I did ketamine, and I got some direct messages. People were like, what you did drugs. And I, again, I’m here to help people expand their brain and think bigger, and there’s so much science showing that this stuff is really helpful for mental health. So thank you for having me.

Joseph Sheehey
Yeah, I feel so blessed to be the person that got to explore this conversation with or not explore, but bring it publicly because it’s a I’ve committed my life to it. Like I’ve literally committed my life to it. I grew up opening up cabinets and seeing orange bottles with white caps all the time. And I literally was like, from the day I was very, very young boy, I was like, I was just like, Why? Why is there another opportunity and so I’m thankful and grateful for you for bringing this conversation out to so many people and allowing me to be part of it.

Dr. Mindy
Yeah. Thank you. Thank you. I love it. Tell me a little bit so people know about your products we talked about? You have CBD with some THC in it. What if somebody wanted to get into your products and start? Is there an entry point?

Joseph Sheehey
Yeah, so more or less. We’re, as I call us, a supplement company of the future. We’re literally creating the future. This is what I believe The future to be, but it’s founded in more or less traditional Chinese medicine approach. So we have a wide array of cannabinoid products. They come in the tinctures, the dropper, the droppers or the capsules, as we discussed two different delivery methods, some are THC free, some are full spectrum spectrum. The full spectrum are the ones that have low concentration THC and high concentration CBD. We sell those all across the nation. They’re great for recovery and for sleep. And then we also have a wide array of functional mushroom and adaptogen products, also in combination with THC, and we have an in house clinical herbalist that actually designed all of these products for us. So we design products for mental clarity and focus for gut health and immune support for sleep and relaxation. And they’re just different combinations of different functional mushrooms, different adaptogens that create that effect. So, rise, Aura and Zen are our flagship products and those are the blends of functional mushrooms, adaptogens and cannabinoids and we took over a year to create every single one of our products because our clinical herbalist sits down and goes, Okay, well, are there potential contraindications? You know, if somebody were to take this and they had red hair, they are known to be like more fiery, so they don’t need it to be as overstimulating. So there’s like, you’ll see on our bottles, there’s like a dose one to three capsules, and everybody’s like, why does it say one three capsules is like, well, our clinical herbalist knows that some person might just need to take one, some person might need to take three. It’s not like this black and white thinking. So in summary, we’ve created products for all aspects of the everyday normal human being life, we all need to sit down and get work done. We all want to be able to dive in and concentrate on whatever it is we’re focusing on our pursuits at heart writing, reading, whatever it is, that we all need to be able to calm ourselves, we all need to be able to recover, we all need to be able to sleep. And we’ve created products for all aspects of those human things like we’re all humans, right, and we’re trying to be more human. And so we’ve created a wide array of supplements to help optimize people’s day to day lives. Yeah, I love

Dr. Mindy
that. And I can’t wait to dive in and try them all. And get that will get the sample size with our membership group and really test it out there on everybody’s CGM. So. So this, this will not be the last you’ve seen of me. I sure hope not. I love what you’re doing. And I just want to understand it more and understand what we can do to bring it to the world. Mental health is the absolute issue that we need to deal with right now. And a large part of my community are women over 40. And you take a loss of hormones, and you put that woman in a pandemic. And, and you combine that with the stress she goes through with sending kids off to school and all the things as I say, and it really you’ve got a mental health issue that can be solved with some of these plants. So thank you, Joe. I really appreciate it.

Joseph Sheehey
Thanks so much for having Yeah,

Dr. Mindy
yeah. And I got to ask you one other question, because it’s my favorite question I asked everybody is, do you have a gratitude practice? And if so, what a daily practice? And if so, what is it? And what’s one thing in 2022 that you are incredibly grateful for, because we’ve all spent the last two years talking about the things we’re not grateful for. So let’s talk about what you might be grateful for right now.

Joseph Sheehey
I love it. Thank you so much for asking. So I actually grew up Catholic, I’m no longer religious, but I do have, I have a prayer practice. And every single night when I go to bed, I would not say I subscribe to one religion or one ideology, but I’m deeply spiritual. And every single night when I get into bed, I pray and give thanks for the people in my life that challenged me, the people in my life that challenged me to become more of the person that it is that I want to be, it’s very easy to get frustrated with those people. But I’ve worked very hard over the last 10 years to become a better human being. And when somebody can openly point out that like, you know, like, you come in and you have this energy or, or, you know, you use, you know, cut people off in meetings or something like that. And like, well, like, I tried to become more and more aware of those ways of operating. And on a day to day basis. I try to give thanks for the people that challenged me and expand me. It’s like the the Jim Rohn quote was like you’re the average of the five people that you spend the most time around. Well, if you’re not surrounding yourself with people that are challenging you to be better than you’re not going to grow and change. So I give thanks for those people as often as I possibly can, but it’s typically a nightly prayer process. And what I’m thankful for in 2022, over the last year and a half of my life, my wife and I had a daughter in January of last year. She was born early. Thank you she’s it was a traumatic birth and she wasn’t breathing. She’s At some time, and then you, and then over the end, She’s incredible. Now I’m so thankful for modern medicine. So it’s all fanned, right? Yep. And there’s other opportunities. And over the course of the last year and a half, we’ve experienced a lot of death. And it was pets, like we had two pets die unexpectedly. One was three, one was six years old. And now my wife’s grandma, who she’s very close to is also dying. So over the last year and a half, you’ve just experienced so many, like, difficult experiences from our daughter’s birth to our pets to now, my wife’s grandma. And I named 2020, every every year, I named my year and I named 2020, to seek joy. And in the beginning of this year, I had a very difficult time doing our dog that passed away most recently struggled from seizures, he actually had a brain tumor, and he died when he was three years old. But my wife and I, our nervous systems, we were so hyper vigilant, because we wouldn’t know when he was going to have a seizure. We recognize that after he passed away, the our level of hyper vigilance and just like, when’s the next seizure going to happen, has dropped. And although we haven’t been out and like, you know, going on all these trips, and doing all these new like new adventures, I’ve found so much joy in the day to day, and so much appreciation for how beautiful and how impermanent this life is. Because of the experiences that we’ve experienced in this last year, that I’ve just really started to seek joy on a day to day basis. And it was completely different than what I expected seek joy for the name of my year to be it was like, we’re gonna go do all the things. Yeah, but I recognize that you don’t get what you want, you get what you need. And what I needed was to recognize that joy is around me all the time. And so 2022 I’m so thankful for the joy that I’m experiencing on a day to day basis and thankful for the experiences that we’ve had in the light that I can now look at them in. And I’m really just, I’m just happy to be here happy to be, you know, pursuing something that really means so much to me. And I’ve recognized that every single day and so that’s that’s 22 for me, in a nutshell is his joy and I’m so thankful for it.

Dr. Mindy
I love seek joy, and we I’m so grateful that we get to be the benefactors of your purpose and your passion. So thank you, Joe, and I appreciate can’t wait to try your products and yeah, for enlightening us all and we’re gonna get this will not be the end of seeing each other. I can’t wait to collaborate with you more. So thank you so much.