This episode is all about what food we should be eating to improve our hormonal balance. Plus, we talk about birth control, the carnivore diet, and psychedelics.
Sara Gottfried MD is a board-certified gynecologist and physician scientist. She graduated from Harvard Medical School and the Massachusetts Institute of Technology, and completed residency at the University of California at San Francisco. Dr. Gottfried is a global keynote speaker who practices evidence-based integrative, precision, and functional medicine.
She is Clinical Assistant Professor in Dept. of Integrative Medicine and Nutritional Sciences at Sidney Kimmel Medical College, Thomas Jefferson University, and Director of Precision Medicine at the Marcus Institute of Integrative Health. Her three New York Times bestselling books include: The Hormone Cure, The Hormone Reset Diet, and Younger. Her new book coming out in September 2021 AND AVAILABLE NOW FOR PREORDER is called WOMEN, FOOD, AND HORMONES. Pick up your copy of Dr. Gottfried’s new book on Amazon, B&N or wherever books are sold.
In this podcast, Women, Food, and Hormones, we cover:
Why doctors are overprescribing the birth control pill
What are the best and worst forms of birth control
How to choose the right IUD
MDMA-assisted psychotherapy for trauma in a medical setting
What women need to know about food and their hormones
What Are The Best and Worst Forms of Birth Control?
Dr. Gottfried’s favorite form of birth control is vasectomy. IUDs are Dr. Gottfried’s second favorite form of birth control. IUDs have the highest satisfaction rate of any form of birth control, and yet it is the least used. However, it’s the safest, and it’s the most effective. The birth control pill is the number one hormone disruptor that we have. There’s a substantial hormonal, nutritional, and inflammatory consequence. The pills completely mess up your hormones. They tend to reduce your body’s estrogen levels, and it also reduces your testosterone levels.
Why Doctors Are Pushing The Birth Control Pill
Doctors are taught to convince women that they should go on the birth control pill. Much of this is pharmaceutical influence; billions and billions of dollars go into the latest birth control pill. Also, doctors don’t talk about root causes when it comes to hormonal issues. The birth control pill will not solve problems for women. Instead, it is simply putting a band-aid on the problem. Birth control is used for acne, painful periods, and PMS.
How To Choose The Right IUD
Dr. Gottfried likes the copper IUD. It is 99.9% effective; it’s as effective as getting your tubes tied. However, some people are sensitive to copper. When you have the copper IUD, you need to track your micronutrient levels. The Mirena IUD has synthetic progestin in it. Some women can be sensitive to this progestin. 10% of women will feel symptoms of the fake estrogen in their body. Women can have mood swings, cysts, and other consequences. Overall, it will depend on the individual and what sort of issues women are trying to juggle.
Women Are Left Out of The Healthcare Conversations
There’s a decent chance of micronutrient deficiencies from birth control pills, especially if that’s someone who’s relatively stressed and has the issues anyway. When you’re on the birth control pill for more than five years, that’s associated with a reduction in ovarian cancer. Prolonged use of birth control is helping to reduce the risk associated with estrogen dominance. Also, it can minimize incessant ovulation. Unfortunately, the birth control pill is associated with a higher risk of breast cancer. Women don’t get full informed consent. Doctors don’t talk about how testosterone can decline. Lastly, you may have additional dryness or decreased libido.
MDMA-Assisted Psychotherapy For Trauma In A Medical Setting
Trauma disrupts hormones in an unfortunate manner. There are tools to deal with trauma like therapy and EMDR. MDMA-assisted psychotherapy is looking great for trauma therapy; it’s more effective than anything that has been used before. MDMA can change your narrative and your reaction to trauma. That’s why Dr. Gottfried is excited about psychedelic-assisted psychotherapy. A new tool in the toolkit that is effective in treating trauma will completely change the world.
What Women Need To Know About Food And Their Hormones
Eat for your hormones. So eat for your insulin, cortisol, estrogen, progesterone, testosterone, thyroid, and growth hormone. All of these are incredibly important. A lot of folks don’t realize that healthy fat is the backbone of your hormones. Many people don’t understand that your food is the most crucial factor when it comes to managing these hormones. Fasting will also be helpful for your hormones as well as nutritional ketosis. Overall, Dr. Gottfried says not to buy processed foods. Instead, eat whole foods. Women often don’t do as well on the ketogenic diet as men do. So, women need to eat plenty of vegetables.
Dr. Sara Gottfried 0:00 befriend your brain. Don’t wait until you have some scary diagnosis of Alzheimer’s disease or your memory is declining. Do everything you can to take care of your brain and your executive functioning. Now,
Dr. Mindy 0:14 I am a woman on a mission that is dedicated to teaching you just how powerful your body was built to be. I like to do that by bringing you the latest science, the greatest thought leaders and applicable steps that help you tap into your own internal healing power. The purpose of this podcast is to give you the power back and help you believe in yourself again, my name is Dr. Mindy Pels. And I want to thank you for spending part of your day with me. On this episode of the resetter podcast, I bring you Dr. Sarah Godfrey. Now, if you don’t know Dr. godfried, you need to get to know her. So there are so many reasons why I love this woman, I love her work. And I really loved the conversation that you’re about to listen to. So Dr. godfried is a New York Times bestselling author, she is amazing to follow on Instagram, by the way, I would encourage you to go follow her there. And she has a new book coming out called Women food and hormones, which is a book that women have been dying to get their hands on. So I’m really excited to share our conversation that we had on her new book, and specifically on what foods we should be eating to improve our hormonal balance. But here’s what’s really cool about this conversation other than she’s an amazing human, is we started off the conversation talking about birth control. Now you guys have asked us a lot of questions about birth control. And when I look at the topic of birth control, I think there is the topic of what do we actually need to be thinking when we choose birth control. And then there is the part of the discussion about what if we’ve been on birth control for many, many years? What could we have possibly depleted from being on a consistent birth control method? So we dove into that, and I’m really excited to share that with you. That is the first half of this podcast. the back half is all about food. And we talk everything from is the carnivore diet good for women. What kind of nutrients Do we need to add back in into our life as we move through menopause. And we even had a little surprise discussion about psychedelics. So if you’ve heard my talk with Dr. Austin Perlmutter, he really was interested in psychedelics for healing, emotional trauma. Well, I’m not going to give it away. But Dr. godfried had some really insight, interesting insight on how we can use psychedelics for healing past traumas. super complex, super deep conversation. I’m so excited to bring it to you, Dr. Sarah Godfrey.
Okay, resetera is I have a really cool new product for you that Organa FIDE just put out. And it’s called harmony, beautiful name. For what it does, it helps balance hormones. And specifically it’s going to help with progesterone production, which Hello, so many of us need more progesterone to calm ourselves and feel better. So it has three nutrients in it that I’m really excited about. It has Makkah and it has chase tree which is going to help with progesterone production, but they also put stinging nettles in it, which is a really cool nutrient. Don’t worry, you’re not going to taste it or, or feel any stinging on your tongue. But stinging nettles is an incredible detoxifier. So I always say that just because you make a hormone doesn’t mean you’re using that hormone and that you’re breaking that hormone down into a nutrient that you can actually put into action. Well when we detox when we support our liver with things like stinging nettles, now we’re supporting the liver. We’re using maka and chase tree to help make progesterone and you’ve got an incredible product that’s going to help us burst our progesterone stores. The other really cool thing about this product that I’m excited about is how do we use it with our cycle. So remember, you’re getting the most amount of progesterone the week before your before your cycle starts. So what if we lean into harmony doing a scoop two skips maybe even three skips a day before the week before our cycle and see if it brings our progesterone stores up and postmenopausal women we need progesterone more than any other person on the planet. So a scoop every day would keep your progesterone stores up. So it’s called harmony, it’s chocolaty, which is really good. I put it in some probiotic rich yogurt and it was like a dessert. I’m really excited about this product as hopefully You can tell and remember Organa phi will always give you 25% off, if you use this code, it’s Organa phi.com, forward slash pills. That’s Organa phi.com, forward slash pills. Let me spell it for you, O R, G, A nifi.com. forward slash pals, PE, l, z. So check it out, let me know what you think. And happy hormone balancing. One thing that we got so much feedback on after the last time you came on, is women are really struggling with their birth control choice. And women who have been on birth control for so many years, are finding that their hormones are all messed up. So can we start by just saying, let’s look at all the birth control options out there? What do you feel like is the safest? If there is one?
Dr. Sara Gottfried 5:57 Yeah, great question. So my favorite form of birth control is the second he
Unknown Speaker 6:02 like by a mile.
Dr. Sara Gottfried 6:05 I love is like to me, I mean, women go through so many things in relationships. And I feel like that is one place where a male partner could really step up. And there’s so many men that are afraid of it. But really, it’s just the tiniest little incision. So discectomy is my favorite. But IUDs are not far behind the second knee. So I’m a big fan of IUDs, I would say that I’ve been an IUD Crusader for most of my career, because it has the highest satisfaction rate of any form of birth control, and yet it is the least used. Now unfortunately, that’s changing. I feel like more women are reaching for IUD. They’re asking questions about it. But I definitely think that it’s the safest, and it’s definitely incredibly effective. And you just take it out, you know, if you decide that you want to have a baby, right? So I’m a big fan, I would say the birth control pill is the number one hormone disruptor that we have,
Dr. Mindy 7:06 I saw that you said that I was like, That’s powerful. Explain why because a lot of women just hop on it, because it’s the easiest. And then there’s a large hormonal consequence.
Dr. Sara Gottfried 7:20 There’s a huge hormonal and also nutritional and inflammatory consequence. So the reason why I think it’s such a hormone disruptor is that it does mess with your hormones. So you take synthetic estrogen together with a synthetic progestin. And those two together, no, they thicken the cervical mucus. That’s the way that it works in terms of helping to prevent the egg from meeting up with sperm. But in the process of doing that, it tends to reduce your estradiol levels, your body’s level of estrogen, and it also reduces your testosterone levels, your free testosterone levels. And this is especially important because testosterone is the most abundant hormone that women have. A lot of people don’t realize that no,
Unknown Speaker 8:08 no, I might get back. with that. I want a little more back. Exactly. I
Dr. Sara Gottfried 8:16 mean, we want testosterone because it’s what gives us confidence agency, it helps us with sex drive, it helps us with risk taking, it helps us with muscle mass. I’ve been watching all of your reels on fasting and muscle mass. And we know that testosterone is part of that story. So when you take synthetic estrogen orally, that raises this intermediate biomarker called sex hormone binding globulin. And that’s like a sponge that soaks up the free Astra dial and also the free testosterone now, so women don’t notice much of a problem when their testosterone goes down and their ES File goes down. And if they have the kind of androgen receptor, that’s super efficient, kind of like a Prius, they may not notice much in the way of a difference. But if you’re someone who is really sensitive to testosterone and you have more of the like Hummer receptor, or you need a lot of testosterone to feel like you’re at your best, then you’ll notice it and what shows up is you go to the gym and you don’t you don’t get the same benefit from weight training from strength training, or your sex drive is decreased or you’re losing that confidence that vitality that testosterone is really known for. So that’s one reason the other reason is the micronutrient gaps that can occur and there’s a long list of these including vitamin C. Vitamin B’s, the ones that are kind of the most known include vitamin B 12 Mb nine or full late. If you have an mthfr fr mutation or gene variant, you may notice that this is the Even worse, but there’s also magnesium. There’s a few other micro nutrient depletions that I’ve been writing about. And then the last thing is inflammation. So women that go on the birth control pill, if you look at biomarkers such as high sensitivity, C reactive protein, it goes up about two to three fold when you’re on the birth control. So more inflammation a lot of women don’t realize that they just noticed that they’re more puffy and they can’t, you know, their joints ache. The other thing that happens with a low testosterone is you may get vaginal dryness. And, you know, a lot of women who go on it for contraception are just like, what’s going on? I mean, I write I mean, I’m in my 20s I bachelor dryness, I I’m way too early for menopause. So it’s, it causes all of these problems. One other thing it does that I think there’s less literature on but I certainly see this in my practice, is that it makes you less flexible. In terms of your hormonal control system.
Dr. Mindy 11:04 Okay,
Dr. Sara Gottfried 11:05 so I’m going to get a little geeky here for a moment. your listeners can handle it. Yeah, they’ll love it. So there’s this control system, we kind of think sometimes I would say maybe 1020 years ago, we would think of the control system for hormones as being the hypothalamic pituitary adrenal axis. And now we think of it more broadly, it’s the hypothalamic pituitary adrenal thyroid, Go Natural gut axis. So all of these parts are involved in managing your hormones. And when you’re on a birth control pill, you just can’t kind of flex in terms of your cortisol levels quite the way that you could off of the birth control pill. So for all of those reasons, I’m not a huge fan.
Dr. Mindy 11:47 Yeah. And the firt when I hear you explain it in that much detail, I the first thing I think is, so why are so many women being told to go on birth control, a lot of times they’re told to go on birth control, because of some other crazy hormonal symptom, not even for birth control? Is this just like a misnomer that keeps getting perpetuated in the in the medical community? It is,
Dr. Sara Gottfried 12:11 I mean, I was taught when I went through my medical training, and what I went through residency to basically convince women that they should go on the birth control pill, and I think a lot of us as pharmaceutical influence, there’s billions and billions of dollars that goes into the latest birth control pill. So that’s one influence. Another is, you know, I would say, in my training, I was not given a root cause approach to women’s hormonal issues. Yep, I was taught to just, you know, stick a bandaid on it, offer a birth control pill, and then reach for the door and get out of there. And that does not solve problems for women. So you know, it’s not just used for contraception. Of course, this you know, it’s used for acne, it’s used for painful periods. And I would say those things, acne, painful periods, even PMS, and premenstrual dysphoric disorder, those are messages that we need to decode. They’re part of the innate intelligence of the body. And when you just kind of steamroll it with a birth control pill, you’re not serving anyone, it’s it’s really, you know, you get these micro nutrient depletions, you get this issue with hormone balance. And it’s it’s not helping the way that she might think.
Dr. Mindy 13:30 Yeah, yeah, absolutely. Agree. Let’s go back to the IUD because I don’t want to get off this topic. There are two versions of the IUD that I that I’m familiar with. And, you know, neither of them. They both have upsides and downsides. Which do you feel like is the best? And or the I would, the way I look at is the least harmful? Which two would you pick? Or Or would you recommend?
Dr. Sara Gottfried 13:57 Well, I would say these are second to the SEC, dummy once you finish with childbearing, right. But first of all, you know, I like the copper IUD so that the intra uterine device that releases copper has been shown to be 99.9% effective, it’s as effective as getting your tubes tied. So in terms of the risk of pregnancy, it’s as effective as getting your tubes tied. The problem is there are some people who are sensitive to copper. And so that’s something that you want to track and stay on top of what I like to do is to track micronutrient levels to my patients. So I’m looking at copper, I’m looking at zinc, I’m looking at the ratio between them. I’m also looking at other micronutrients just to see if there’s any gaps. The second one that I think you’re referring to is the intra uterine system. That’s also known as the libo nor gestural. I us yeah, Raina. Yep And the way that I use the murena is That, once again, it’s got a synthetic progestin in it. So some women are really sensitive to that, you know, a lot of the, the physicians that’ll insert in a marina will tell patients Oh, you don’t get any systemic symptoms, because this is just a local effect of the progestin in your uterus. But the truth is, if you look at the science, somewhere around 10%, sometimes even more, women will feel symptoms of the synthetic progesterone, the fake estrogen in their body. So they may have mood swings, they may have cysts on their ovaries, there’s other consequences related to the intra uterine system. But as always, it kind of depends on the individual, it depends on, you know, what, what sort of issues are you trying to juggle, I have patients, for instance, who have fibroids, and if they don’t use something like a marina, then they’re going to have really heavy bleeding that we can’t keep up with in terms of food and supplements. And so there are other choice is to go to surgery. If you’re able to avoid surgery, by using the Marina, more power to you, you know, we can manage these other things, you can think of it almost as a bridge, especially for the folks who follow you who are over the age of 40. You can think of it as a bridge to menopause. Because once you go through menopause, things like fibroids tend to shrink about 20%, sometimes more. And this can provide you with a treatment that helps you avoid that knife.
Dr. Mindy 16:35 Okay, and what do you think with heavy metals and copper? Do you? Do you worry that it is a heavy metal that would create heavy metal symptoms that we do a lot of detoxing of heavy metals. And that’s been one of my apprehensions with the copper.
Dr. Sara Gottfried 16:50 Of course, yes. So this is why I like to track the levels. But you know, I also, personally, I have a genomic risk, that makes me very low in copper. Hmm, so the copper IUD was a really good fit for me. Okay, and if I don’t have an IUD, I have to take a supplement that contains copper. So this is where I think precision medicine comes up, because we want to personalize to the individual. Yeah. And there is such a thing as copper toxicity. Wilson’s disease, we want to certainly be careful about that. You know, Dale Bredesen, for instance, talks about the copper zinc ratio, I would refer people to his books for more details about that. But I think as long as you’re tracking it, it’s a very effective form of contraception. But you raise a good point, which is, we don’t have enough choices like no, we have more choices that are safer.
Dr. Mindy 17:43 Yeah, I know, you’re, you’re a mother of one daughter, two daughters, your daughters, your daughter. So I have one daughter. And I feel like I have analyzed this from as many different angles as I can. And I come up short. And it’s like, okay, pick the lesser of all the evils is the way I see it. So is there like, and we don’t we have a lot of women over 40 listening. But if they have daughters that are in their 20s, you know, what would you What did you recommend to your daughters? What would you recommend to someone who’s trying to make this choice right now?
Dr. Sara Gottfried 18:19 Well, it’s the same recommendation, um, you know, a woman in her 20s is going to be less likely to choose discectomy. But I think Yeah, easy’s are really the way to go. Okay, and then to track the micronutrients to track the metals and make sure that it’s not an issue. So I still have the same recommendation. Yeah, to you know, there’s also plenty of patients who come to me who are on the birth control pill, whether they’re younger, and they’re taking it for contraception, or for acne, or they’re older, and they’re taking it for perimenopause. And it’s not necessarily that you have to come off the birth control pill at all costs, it’s more that we want to manage it, we want to make sure that those micronutrient gaps are filled, and we want to make sure that the inflammation is not elevated. We want to make sure that testosterone is in that Goldilocks position where it’s not too high, not too low. Same thing with Astra dial. So I have the same recommendation kind of across the age span. When you have not had a baby, it can be a little more painful to put an IUD and that’s certainly true. But women do it all the time. And I think once again, we need some more options. I used to be a big fan, for instance of kind of layering up natural family planning together with you know, maybe a diaphragm. Yeah. What,
Dr. Mindy 19:37 what happened to the diaphragm? When when we were in, you know, high school, that was the thing.
Dr. Sara Gottfried 19:43 I you know, I loved the diaphragm. I was great. I mean, it was like a barrier method. I could control it. I could
just put more goop in there if I knew. Yeah, huge fan of the diaphragm. I don’t know. I imagine there’s some sort of profit motive that of that has gotten in the way They didn’t consult me Monday
Dr. Mindy 20:03 about keeping the diaphragm available. Well, they should. It’s like the Diva Cup. The first time I used a Diva Cup, I’m like, this is brilliant. Wait, this is like the diaphragm. They’re the same thing. Totally. And what I love about the diaphragm too, is
Dr. Sara Gottfried 20:17 women to, you know, kind of understand their own physiology and their own
Unknown Speaker 20:23 anatomy. You know, I
Dr. Sara Gottfried 20:24 used to, I’ve said this so many 1000s of times with my patients, I’m like, okay, you you put your finger inside the vagina, you feel your cheek, like your vagina feels like your cheek and your cervix feels like your nose, it’s more firm, make sure the diaphragm is over the cervix. And you I just think that kind of education and information is really helpful so that it’s not, you know, like a down there thing.
Like this dark area that nobody knows about. I want it to, you know, see the light of day and
Dr. Mindy 20:55 understand which I have. Yeah, have you you have to read the book. If you haven’t read it. Come as you are by Emily Nagurski. Come as you are. I’m sorry, you’re gonna love it. You know, Dr. Carrie Jones? Oh, yes. She when I asked her what books she thought every woman should read. She said that one. And so I brought Emily on to the, onto my podcast to chat with her. And the whole book is about exactly what you just said about women understanding themselves, she actually says the first part of having great sex is to grab a beer and put it down there. So you know what you’re looking at, get familiar with it. Understand that. And you know, you when you start to go into that level of detail, you realize how many women not only don’t know their hormones, don’t know how to eat for their home on the hormones, which we’re going to talk about, but haven’t even looked down there are touchdown there to understand this incredible body part.
Dr. Sara Gottfried 21:53 Totally agree. I mean, I feel like if you want to have fantastic sex for the rest of your life, you got to know yourself. And you also have to be able to teach your partner and that’s not just know, I’ve been married almost 20 years like, this is an ongoing conversation. I mean, you want to keep getting to know yourself, understand at different life stages, what works for you, you don’t want to outsource that to someone else I want to know. Well said,
Dr. Mindy 22:23 So okay, what are my other thoughts on birth control that I’ve heard is if you get on it early, like what, let’s say 1516 that the hypothalamus pituitary ovary connection isn’t well established. And now you’re putting an exogamous? What, you know, hormone substance into you. And so you’ve thrown your whole innate hormonal production off. Is that true? And if you take it off these birth control types, you can bring that back very quickly.
Dr. Sara Gottfried 22:58 Well, this is an area where I would say we have less science to back us up. But definitely the point I was making before that being on the birth control pill makes you less flexible, like makes your hypothalamic pituitary adrenal gland Natl axis, lot less flexible. That’s part of the problem with going on it too young. So when you’re an adolescent, and I’m told now that adolescence lasts until like, 26, I was done. That’s essential. drun. But turns out, I’m not. So with adolescents, you know, they often they don’t mature their system, their control system for hormones until well into their 20s. So when you disrupt it, by giving these synthetic hormones, we don’t really know how safe that is. Yeah. So you know, we have the safety data that’s been used to get FDA approval for one birth control pill after another. Yeah, but we also know that, you know, there was a study in the New England Journal of Medicine a couple of years ago showing that there’s a greater risk of breast cancer associated with birth control pills. So we’re changing the hormonal the natural hormonal balance and women. And I know that there’s some downstream consequences from that.
Dr. Mindy 24:16 Yeah, I really like your approach of testing the nutrient value and just testing Do you are you doing that like once a year for women that you would recommend? I do
Dr. Sara Gottfried 24:25 so it depends on what I find. Typically, when I see a patient I do a lot of consultation case reviews Second Opinion. So I’ll do either a neutral or a metabolomics test or like a vibrant lab looking at micronutrients. And if it’s not terrible, you know, if there’s just a few gaps that we need to fill in that I’ll check it once a year. If there’s a lot of issues that we need to address, you know, like with methylation with the B vitamins with antioxidants, with minerals, then sometimes all retest sooner, such as at four months or six months? Okay?
Dr. Mindy 25:04 And what do you say to a woman who’s been on it this? This is one that like shocks me how many women when I ask How long have you been on the birth control pill? They’re like, decades, like now they’re 45, they’re moving through menopause and they’ve been on this for decades, is there a very good chance that they’ve got some nutrient deficiencies that need to be addressed?
Dr. Sara Gottfried 25:28 I would say there’s a very good chance of micronutrient deficiencies, especially if that’s someone who’s relatively stressed and has the issues anyway, with B vitamins. And then you layer on kind of the genetic issues like mthfr. And of course, it’s not just mthfr, there’s a whole list of single nucleotide polymorphisms that are part of the methylation pathway. So yes, I would say that’s one of the issues. Now, it’s not all doom and gloom with the birth control pill to be balanced. What I can also say is that when you’re on the birth control pill for more than five years, that’s associated with a reduction in ovarian cancer, because it’s, you know, helping to reduce the risk associated with estrogen dominance. And with what I was always taught was incessant oscillation, that we have too much population. And so the birth control pill can help with that. But it is associated with a greater risk of breast cancer. So we have to kind of put all of these risks and benefits together to make a good decision. And what makes me crazy, Mindy, is that a lot of women don’t get full informed consent. Yeah, right. So their doctor doesn’t tell them about the micronutrient. depletions doesn’t tell them about the copper risk with IUD doesn’t tell them about, you know how testosterone can decline, you may have additional dryness or decreased libido, which is the greatest irony when you’re on this for. So I think the important piece here is informed consent, and then to move forward so that we’re trying to reduce these risks that are associated with it.
Dr. Mindy 27:07 I love that. And you and I talked about this last time i women I just feel are being so left out of the healthcare conversation, you know that we have a system that’s very one size fits all and functional medicine has really revealed that that’s that there’s a different way to do that. Do you feel like the I call it the sick care system? Do you feel like the sick care system is going to eventually move more towards functional medicine? Or is it just a dinosaur that’s sitting there going to keep saying the same thing over and over again, for women?
Dr. Sara Gottfried 27:41 Yeah, that’s a good question. I mean, I work at an academic medical center, where the way that we’ve positioned the work that we do, I call what I do functional, integrative and precision medicine, we’ve positioned it as adding value to mainstream medicine. So I think in some ways, that’s the way to not offend into, you know, kind of bring the allopathic physicians into the fold. So I think positioned in a matte way is very helpful. I agree with you about the sick care system. We still need it, right? I know graded when we break a bone or, you know, I just tore my labrum in my right shoulder, and I was flirting with whether I needed surgery. So, you know, we certainly need the secure system. But what I hope we do is to move more toward health as the objective and the goal. I would say medicine in many ways. I heard this quote from the guy who used to be the physician in chief at Massachusetts General Hospital, he said, medicine is the only industry that does not use health as its gold standard, like we don’t have a gold standard. And you know, health is defined as the absence of disease, which is sort of a circular conversation that doesn’t get us to the point where we really understand Okay, for you Monday for, you know, the patient that I saw earlier today, what is health for you? Like, what do you want to use it for? What does it mean to you? Yeah, how do we architect wellness specifically for you? Yeah, because it could be different person to person. For me, it has more to do with glucose and insulin because I used to be a pre diabetic. For other people, it may have more to do with methylation or detoxification. So we have to figure out, you know, what is that personal concept of health?
Dr. Mindy 29:31 Do you think that that lack of focus on what health looks like for each person is because what we’ve been taught is if you do not have a symptom, you’re healthy. So we’ve learned early on, I don’t have any symptoms, then I’m working perfectly. Do you think we need to change that paradigm?
Dr. Sara Gottfried 29:49 I think that’s part of it. I think there’s, you know, there’s this it’s almost like benign neglect, where I’m How are you? I’m fine. I’m fine. You know, like, often we don’t start to pay attention to health until we get a scary diagnosis. And a big part of this, of course, is the failure of prevention. A lot of people just don’t care that much about prevention until you hold their feet to the fire until they have a heart attack or they have a labral tear or they have, you know, something else that forces them to change their behavior in some way with food, with lifestyle with supplements, with relationships. So I think that’s part of it. I think that a, we have this, we have a hard time defining health.
Dr. Mindy 30:37 Yeah, that’s true. Yeah. I mean, if you know, you know why, though, I think because it’s a verb. It’s not a noun. It’s it’s a daily action. It’s not like an event. It’s not a place to get to. It’s an action you’re doing on a daily basis.
Dr. Sara Gottfried 30:53 Yeah. I love that. I totally love that. Mindy. I agree with that. 100%. Because a lot of people think health is some destination. Yeah. Yeah. The truth is, it’s this process, right? It’s the act of daily pursuit of the choices that create us, you know, to be able to do the things that we most want to do to be able to live our life as deeply and fully as we possibly can. And that can change, you know, year to year, decade to decade. One thing I’m really into right now is trauma and healing trauma. I think that’s another really important hormone disruptor. And my concept of health is starting to include, you know, what kind of trauma Have you been exposed to, we’ve all gone through this trauma of COVID over the past months, right, and, and now we have some really effective methods of treating it. And I know this is like yet another podcast like psychedelic assisted psychotherapy and the use of
Dr. Mindy 31:53 psychedelics. Oh, totally. Oh my god. I’m Dr. Austin, perma Perlmutter on and I was like, Okay, tell me about this. I see this. And he, he had a really fascinating explanation of it. So why are you in favor of it?
Dr. Sara Gottfried 32:08 Well, because taking care of men and women for the past 2530 years, I know that trauma disrupts hormones in a really powerful way. So whether that’s adverse childhood experiences, or it’s more recent occurrences, like women trying to survive in COVID while they’re homeschooling their kids, and like also trying to work, what we know is that it’s a huge hormone. disruptor. And, you know, the kind of tools that I’ve been given to deal with trauma, things like therapy, talk therapy, EMDR, you know, some of the things that are in when your body keeps the score. I’ve been underwhelmed honestly, like I think some people are able to find a path of healing their trauma. But when I see patients go through MDMA assisted psychotherapy, when you look at the randomised trials, like the one that was just published in Nature a few months ago, we know that this is so much more effective than anything that we’ve ever used before, in terms of using this, this medicine that can help you kind of change your narrative change, certainly the attachment that we have to the facts that occurred, but also the story that we tell ourselves about what occurred, not to Gaslight people, but to change our reaction to it. So to me, that’s really exciting. That’s why I’m excited about psychedelic assisted psychotherapy.
Dr. Mindy 33:41 Yeah, yeah. When I brought it up to Austin, he said, Well, what do you think of it? And I said, Well, I’ll just be honest, I’m researching it. And I part of me really feels like is it just an excuse to do like this mind altering drug, and he came in really strong. And he said, I would encourage you to think about that differently. And we had a beautiful discussion about it after that. So it’s, it’s getting so much attention right now. It’s really fascinating and exciting at the same time.
Dr. Sara Gottfried 34:09 It’s very exciting. I would say, probably about three quarters of the psychiatrists friends I have are just racing toward this work. Wow. Because they’re burned out. Yeah, they’re tired of, you know, just trying one new antidepressant after another or like layering them on top for patients with depression and anxiety. And now they have a new tool in their toolkit that is really effective. So yes, I agree with Austin. It sounds like that was a lovely moment.
Dr. Mindy 34:41 Where you to him poking out a little beautiful, I love that.
Dr. Sara Gottfried 34:47 I love it too. And it’s, you know, I think this is yet another place where we want to listen to the science. And the science is telling us okay, this is not just some chemistry lab in Berkeley, you know, where MDMA was first synthesized, it’s not like an excuse to use a party drug, when it’s used in a medical setting where you know, you, you’re in a very safe setting, you have to pay a lot of attention to this thing called set and setting. So mindset and also the, the safe container for being able to do this type of work very different than like taking ecstasy in college, in a dorm without, you know, safety parameters around you. It can really be effective, especially when you have a trained psychotherapist who can guide you through this process where you can, like jump on those lily pads and go back to some of these traumas and re experienced them in a different way.
Dr. Mindy 35:45 Wow, I love that. And I this topic, I could go down a very long path with you, but I don’t I want to leave time for food. I want to give you guys a little bit of a behind the scenes view of what it’s like to put the amount of content out into the world that we do. I have a team of amazing individuals that all have different skill sets. And one of these individuals is really good with charts and checklists. And what we hear from you guys a lot is that you are looking for more hormone building foods. What do I need to eat to raise estrogen? What do I need to eat to raise progesterone. And it would be really helpful to have a sheet This is what you’ve told us. So one of my incredible team members has designed a hormone building list, it’s beautified easy to read, you could probably put it on your refrigerator and make it so that you’re always keeping progesterone and estrogen in mind when you go to put a meal together. So it’s a hormone building checklist and you will fight for you and it will you will find the link in the show notes. You just click on the link, it’ll send you to the checklist. And you can download it, print it out, put it on your refrigerator, share it with a loved one, and really thrive with your fasting lifestyle. Remember, a fasting lifestyle has a lot of variations of fasting. It also has a lot of variations of food. We love keto. But we also love building hormones. And you can use your foods to build hormones like progesterone. And this hormone building checklist is going to give you that opportunity. So just go into the show notes, click on the link. And as always, I hope it helps. This is your new book that’s coming out food and hormones. And one thing that I learned in my own fasting journey was I got so excited about what fasting was doing for my mental clarity, my energy my way that I just started fasting more and more. And then one day I ran a Dutch test on myself. And my hormones were horrific, like sex hormones totally tanked. And I started to realize, Oh, wait, maybe I’m not supposed to fast the same way all month long. And it just, like opened up Pandora’s box. And all of a sudden here I was 45 years old at the time. And I was thinking, Wait, I’m not supposed to exercise the same way all month long. I’m not supposed to eat the same way. Like, why am I 45 and learning this now? So I’m so excited for your new book and talk a little bit about what women need to know around food and their hormones and how do we match that to their cycle?
Dr. Sara Gottfried 38:28 Yeah, great question. So, you know, I get asked a lot, what should I eat? And to me the answer is eat for your hormones. So eat for your insulin, your cortisol, your estrogen, your progesterone, your testosterone, your thyroid, your growth hormone. All of these are incredibly important. A lot of folks don’t realize that fat healthy fat is the backbone of the hormones that she make, especially the sex hormones. So that includes, you know, the testosterone, estrogen, progesterone, cortisol, but you know, cholesterol gets converted to pregnenolone, the mother hormone of all the sex hormones that then goes down the pathways to progesterone, cortisol, thta, testosterone and estrogen. And what we want to do is eat in a way that regulates these hormones. A lot of people don’t realize that your food is the most important factor when it comes to being able to manage these hormones. So this book in particular is about the metabolic hormones, the ones that you talk about a lot that are involved in switching from burning glucose, burning carbs versus burning fat, how we want to be metabolically flexible. And so this is a four week pulse to change the way that your hormones are made and regulated. It involves detoxification first, especially people who have more of an apple shape. It also involves fasting So layering in fasting not so high that it takes your sex hormones, but is adjusted for you. And it’s also got nutritional ketosis using clean keto, not just you know, bacon and fat bombs, but using a lot of those prebiotic fibers, the vegetables that help you with making glutathione with all those things that are involved in detoxification,
Dr. Mindy 40:26 you know, I, we were talking earlier about how I was up in Tahoe and I, we get there we have an electric car, so we’re always trying to figure out where to plug it in. Yes. You got
Dr. Sara Gottfried 40:36 that same problem totally with only electric cars. So it’s always about Okay, where’s the station?
Dr. Mindy 40:41 Yeah, like any road trip requires that you do a little forethought. So we we parked the car, we’re charging it, we go into this, this traditional grocery store in Lake Tahoe. And I’m going down one aisle, and I see the separate aisle that says it was oral wheat, and that was keto bread. And I was like, let me see what these ingredients are. And so I went over, I took I turned it over. And it was just bad oils, bad ingredients, toxic synthetic chemicals. And I thought to myself, this breaks my heart because people are gonna look at that and go keto. keto, that’s healthy. I’m going to go ahead and buy that. How give us a little understanding for women. What part of keto? Should we be looking out for as far as like premade packaging products? And the second half of that question is, is when Is there a time ever? We need to not be in ketosis?
Dr. Sara Gottfried 41:39 Yeah, love those questions. So first of all, I think I was at the same grocery store. Because, yeah, when I see or are we is making keto bread, I immediately am suspicious, right? I mean, industrial seed oils, the it’s processed food. And I think a lot of people have that feeling of, Oh, I could do keto and eat bread. And, yeah, you could you could make your own bread that has really healthy oils, and has, you know, good nutrients. But I wouldn’t advise buying processed food as a way of doing the ketogenic diet. So I think it’s much better to go with a Whole Foods based food plan that’s really rich and vegetables, its vegetables forward, especially for that detoxification. And if I take a step back for a moment, you know, part of the problem is that men because they have so much more testosterone than women, even though it’s the most abundant hormone that both of us have. They are much more successful on keto. Yeah. And part of the reason is, most of the research on keto was done in men and assumed to apply to women. Women often don’t do as well on the ketogenic diet as men do. That’s known as the testosterone advantage. So there’s these these things that women need to do to adapt the ketogenic diet. And I would say the oral wheat, keto bread is not one of them. It’s more about you know, really getting those Whole Foods, making sure that you’ve got a plate that has plenty of vegetables, I recommend about a pound a day and use net carbs, not total carbs. Yeah. So my book goes through these details, as well as know how to define your carb limit. Because some of us when I first tried keto, I had a really low carb limit. So I was carbon tolerant. I couldn’t eat much in the way of carbs without my glucose, you know, just spiking through the roof. And so I needed to really dial in the macronutrients at that point. Now, I’m at a point where I go in and out of ketosis, which is, you know, the way that our DNA evolved, as you well know. And I think, in general, what I’ve arrived at is that this type of variation, where you go in and out of ketosis, when you use fasting as kind of the backdoor, to ketosis, and use that to augment ketogenesis, when you use a detoxification to really augment the benefits of ketosis, that’s where you get the greatest success. Yeah. But there’s not a lot of long term data on keto. I don’t believe in going on keto, and then you know, doing that for the rest of your life. Yeah, you know, it really depletes the microbiome, the microbiome need those prebiotic fibers for the benevolent microbes to really thrive. A lot of people become constipated if they’re not paying attention to getting the vegetables that they need. So I think coming in and out of keto is the best way. My recommendation in the book is a four week pulse with keto. And you could even say it’s similar to a medical therapy, where you know there are some people who raise their bad cholesterol, their LDL, their LDL p, a few other biomarkers that we’d like to track and so you want to be aware Have what some of these risks are, and not just stay in ketosis for the rest of your life.
Dr. Mindy 45:05 Yeah. And do you think recently I was geeking out with some other functional medicine practitioners and we were talking about why the week before your period starts that you tend to be innately more insulin resistant. And my brain always goes to Okay, what’s the body trying to do? If it is intuitively more insulin resistant the week before, there must be a reason for that. And that doesn’t mean go deeper into keto, that means honoring what the body needs. So do you buy into this thought that we need to do something different the week before our cycle?
Dr. Sara Gottfried 45:43 I buy into the fact that I think you have to adjust what you’re eating, as well as the way that you’re exercising throughout the menstrual cycle, okay, that we’re synched up with the innate intelligence of the body. Yeah. So the week before your period, what we know is that a lot of people actually come out of ketosis like women can pop out of ketosis that week, because of some of the hormonal changes. Now, I haven’t seen a lot of data on insulin resistance. But what we know is that carb cravings, especially for women who have PMS, they go up about 260%. Wow, before your period. Now, some of those carbs, I think you need for adrenal function for thyroid function for making serotonin. And so to get to your point, which is the body is trying to tell you something, I think part of this is getting the right dose of carbohydrates that work for your body. It’s also the time during your cycle where you don’t want to be going for personal best with your running or with you know, doing high intensity interval training. The best time to do that is right at ovulation or a few days before ovulation. So testosterone peaks around day 12, somewhere between day nine and day 12 estradiol also peaks progesterone is relatively low. That’s where you really want to go for it in terms of gains, muscle gains or speed gains with your exercise regime.
Dr. Mindy 47:13 Would you say that then estrogen wants you to be is going to respond better if you’re in ketosis, whereas when progesterone is coming on the scene, it’s a little bit more of a time to step out of ketosis. Can we make it that simple?
Dr. Sara Gottfried 47:32 I don’t know if we can make it that simple. I mean, the body I what I see with my patients is a lot of people, as I said, pop out of ketosis when progesterone rises. So that’s typically around d 2122. With a hypothetical 20 days cycle. What we know with estrogen estrogen has about 400 jobs. One of those jobs was he’s busy. It’s really busy, right? It’s keeping my my shoulder lubricated. Yeah, right.
Unknown Speaker 48:00 It’s, uh,
Dr. Sara Gottfried 48:01 it does so many different things. It’s involved in appetite. So you know, but the other thing that happens around day 2122, is that estrogen does have another little peak not quite as high as day 12. But it has another little peak, along with the rising progesterone. So I think you know what some people notice as estrogen starts to decline the week before their period is that their appetite increases. So you just want to pay attention to that and sort of notice what’s happening. It’s not a time. And I say this with so much love and respect. It’s not a time to be bingeing on refined sugar. Yeah, because I used to do that I had disordered eating when I was in high school in through my 20s. So we just want to watch that. And the thing with progesterone, you know, it starts to decline. We don’t make as much of it typically at 35 to 40. Yep. So getting vitamin C, that’s one of the ways that you can raise it naturally. We also know that chaste tree by tags can be helpful for raising serum progesterone levels. So I don’t think it’s quite as simple as you know, cycled in and out of keto, based on your estrogen and progesterone levels. I think you have to look at the bigger picture. And then there’s also the role of estrogen and insulin, which I know you’ve, you’ve written about. You’ve made some videos on
Dr. Mindy 49:19 Yeah, when So talk about that. Do you think so? Like let’s use menopausal women. You know, as our estrogen goes down the, the research I’ve seen shows that we become more insulin resistant once we start to lose estrogen. So is that a time we may want to use keto more to make ourselves insulin sensitive?
Dr. Sara Gottfried 49:40 I think it is a really good time to do a keto pulse. The thing that you have to be careful of is some of these downstream consequences. So as especially paying attention to lipid metabolism, looking at your cholesterol in my women who are perimenopausal and menopausal, what I like to do is baseline labs before And after they do a four week pulse, just to make sure that it’s a good fit for them. We can also do some genetic testing to look at how people respond to different types of fat like saturated fat versus more plant based fat. And with you know, the other point that I think is is essential here is that in perimenopause, as estrogen starts to decline in the second half of perimenopause, the first half of perimenopause, I think of as low progesterone. But in the second half of perimenopause, as estrogen declines, you get this redistribution of body fat, right. So what typically happens is women store more fat kind of depending on their baseline through their pre menopausal years. I store it at my buttocks and my hips and my breasts. So I’m a little bit more pear shaped. And what happens for me and perimenopause and happens to a lot of other women is that we redistribute. So there’s more fat deposited at the viscera, so at the abdomen, and less at the subcutaneous space. And that is related to a drop in estrogen and also this increased insulin resistance that you’re speaking to.
Dr. Mindy 51:11 So what how do we Is there a way to? I mean, it’s if it’s naturally happening, is there a way to make that ride a little smoother? And I like your idea of the keto poles, but is there are there some like key things we need to do to make sure that that redistribution isn’t traumatic? And that we just sort of write it as smoothly as we can? Yeah, absolutely. So
Dr. Sara Gottfried 51:35 uh, you know, one solution is definitely to do this four week pulse where it’s not just keto, it’s detoxification, which I think helps with that redistribution, as well as fasting. We know I saw that you had a YouTube on alternate day fasting, we know that that actually works better for women who are in menopause than it does for pre menopausal women. And we almost never hear that Mindy.
Unknown Speaker 52:04 I mean, no hear that,
Dr. Mindy 52:06 like you have an advantage. Right through menopause. No, the only advantage we have is we go through better pauses our wisdom. That’s that’s the only advantage Vantage I think we have.
Dr. Sara Gottfried 52:17 There’s another advantage. So Christiane Northrup taught me this. She said, you know, when you’re in your reproductive years, and you like are changing your estrogen, progesterone, testosterone every day, you become so accommodating. And when you go through menopause, that hormonal veil is lifted, and you start to speak your truth, and you don’t accommodate anymore. So I’m looking forward to that. Look out for the people that are around you, for sure. That’s right. I’ve been training my husband, so he’s ready for this.
Dr. Mindy 52:49 definitely needed. Okay. The other thing I was thinking as you were talking, I don’t know, if you read about this in your book, where does the carnivore diet fit into this?
Dr. Sara Gottfried 53:00 Yeah, um, I think the carnivore diet probably works better for men than women. I mean, we see that with pretty much every day. Yeah. You know, I, I don’t know that I have enough experience with it to really be able to speak to it fully. I know that it’s very popular right now. And it’s, in some cases kind of put together with a ketogenic diet. Once again, I think that women need more vegetables, they need more detoxification, they need adaptation, so that they’re not just eating like a carnivore. But what do you think you probably know more about this than I
Dr. Mindy 53:37 do? Well, I’ve, I’ve researched a lot on the carnivore. I think that if you have like an autoimmune condition, there’s some really excellent research showing that it can really up regulate t regulatory cells, and that it can really calm that autoimmune condition down. I have tried it myself, and only for like, little five day periods. And I feel a bit euphoric. I do not like not eating vegetables. I feel like when my hormones are off, if I go and eat vegetables, life just gets better. So I don’t I I’m conflicted, which is partly why I asked you, I think maybe if we go in with spurts of it, and use it every once in a while, I think that’s amazing, and can be really helpful. But I worry with women going on at long term.
Dr. Sara Gottfried 54:28 I do too. You know, the main thing I worry about is the microbiome. Yeah, so I haven’t you know, even with keto, I would say the data on keto, most of which is in men, but 90% percent of the data. The data on the microbiome and how it’s affected by going on a ketogenic diet makes me quite concerned and it’s part of the reason why I think detoxification pooping every day feeling like you fully evacuated, making sure that you’re getting rid of those estrogens. Once they’re used And they’re not endlessly recirculating, like bad karma. I think that’s really important. And with the carnivore diet, I haven’t seen a lot of data looking in a rigorous way at the microbiome and how it’s affected by it. So I’m encouraged by what you said about autoimmune disease. But, you know, I think a big part of autoimmune disease is good rehab and making sure that we’ve got adequate diversity, we’ve got plenty of those benevolent microbes, and not too many of those, you know, like Homer Simpson, problem microbes.
Dr. Mindy 55:29 Yeah. Yeah. I love your analogies, I the way I look at it is like, we need to be walking around with a toolbox. And then we’ve got to figure out when to pull out which tool. So I don’t, you know, here’s the science behind the carnivore diet is that it actually increases a species of bacteria called your bacteroides. And I have heard, I don’t know if you’ve heard this, but I’ve heard that if Firmicutes get higher than bacteroides, that ratio, that FB ratio makes it so that you actually will store calories more as fat. And if anybody’s any woman’s been on lots of antibiotics, and has brought the bacteroides down, brought Firmicutes up really high, she’s gonna eat the same thing as maybe her other you know, her sister does, but doesn’t have that same ratio, and she will store fat more. So her calories as fat. So back to varieties can really be replenished with the carnivore diet. That’s what I’ve heard. But I’m going to tell stick?
Dr. Sara Gottfried 56:31 Well, it’s, you know, when you look at the microbiome data, I think part of the problem here is having a consistent way of analyzing it. And I feel like we’re still in the early days of being able to make generalizations. In some ways, I think one of the best researchers in this area is Rob Knight and the University of California, San Diego, his work with the human gut project. And what he has found is that species diversity is probably the most proven way, especially with vegetables and even fruits, is probably the most proven way to improve diversity. So I understand what you’re saying about Firmicutes versus bacteroides. And I think I wish we were at a place where we could make really clear recommendations about diet and how it changes the microbiome, I still think we’re in the early days of it.
Dr. Mindy 57:26 Yeah. And I will tell you that those studies were mouse studies, they weren’t they weren’t female studies. So it does. You know, I always say, I don’t know how you feel about this. But I always say that male studies and mouse studies, they kind of get us in the ballpark. But they are definitely not analogous to what a woman needs, they just get a sort of an awareness. And now we’ve got to because we’d like you’ve said multiple times, we don’t have enough female studies. So we got to sort of make some some connections until we get those studies.
Dr. Sara Gottfried 57:55 That’s right. I mean, it I think it’s a start. It points us in a particular direction. So it gives us directionality. But it doesn’t give us answers. It gives us some hypotheses that we can then test. Yeah, but we got to test them to be able to answer this question.
Dr. Mindy 58:11 Yeah, a great, a great. And then what do you think I got to ask this last question? And then I’ve got a handful of rapid fire questions for you. What are your thoughts on fasting, uh, specifically longer fasts? So when I look at the fasting research, which I feel like, I’ve spent so much time diving into that, there’s, as we fast longer, there’s some incredible benefits, you know, 24 hours, we see that the gut microbiome in mice again, will read will totally reboot itself. I’m seeing some really cool literature on 24 to 48 hours can really help with dopamine receptor sites. Do you feel like and feel free to disagree with me? But do you feel like that is safe for women to do? Is there anything we need to mind when we go into these longer fasts?
Dr. Sara Gottfried 58:58 Yeah, that’s a great question. I feel like what I what I see with fasting is that it’s one of the most incredible tools that we have to reset the body, you know, to trigger a toffee g as you’ve talked about so beautifully, and to to get the body to kind of go back to its factory settings. That’s really, I think, the intention behind fasting, and it’s been used for time immemorial. Right. So religious traditions, regardless of your religion, you know, there are religious traditions that do this. I think that for women, the key part is stress. So there are some women who don’t have a lot of stress in their lives, and they can do experiments with fasting, they can do 24 hours, they can do 48 hours and see what happens. See what’s true for them. I happen to like a little continuous glucose monitor. Yes.
Dr. Mindy 59:55 I feel like I know all your numbers. I watch them all. On Instagram.
Dr. Sara Gottfried 1:00:02 Yeah, well, I like to I really like to watch the CGM data. I mean, you know, usually it’s just kind of a flat line that gets sort of lower and lowers people fast. But it gives us a lot of information. So to me, the problem is women who maybe you have a history of trauma, hmm. And they can’t tune into stress very well. So they’re, you know, the, when they were growing up, for instance, their ability to kind of know themselves and tune into what’s true for them, was either taken from them, or they got mixed messages about autonomy. I think those people often have a hard time with fasting, because they can’t sense how stressful it is. Yeah. Interesting. So, you know, with fasting, what I found more anecdotally is that when I fast for 24 hours or longer, I feel really good meat. But I also know that because of my history of eating disorders, and I think that is so prevalent, you have to be kind of careful in this territory. So you really have to see you know, what’s true for you? Is this making you a reset your relationship to food in a healthy way? Or is it getting you to restrict yourself unnecessarily? And I love how you talk about, you know, the refeeding process, how to make that as clean and as healthy as possible. I think that’s a really important part of this conversation. The data from, you know, looking at valter Longo and some of the fasting I’ve gone to his fasting conference and heard a lot of people talk about these more extended fasts. And he even thinks that 16 to 18 hours might be too long, but I know it’s stressful for some people. Yeah, yeah. So I think we have to be cautious. We have to see what happens with cortisol. I do best with like a 14 to 18 hour fasting window. And you know, maybe when I’m older, and my kids are like, launched, they’re out of battle of adolescence. Is
Dr. Mindy 1:02:01 that ever gonna happen? Does that happen?
Dr. Sara Gottfried 1:02:05 I hope it happens at some point. I mean, during COVID, all bets are off, right? That’s true. Very true. But I feel like at some point, I can experiment more with fasting right now with the way my life is configured. It just doesn’t fit in very well.
Dr. Mindy 1:02:18 Yeah. Awesome. I love that. Well, someday Well, I’ll pull out my studies and we can like geek out on it when when both are our sets of kids are launched. I love it. Let’s do it. Okay, really quick, and I want to respect your time, but I have five questions for you rapid fire. The first one, we’re creating a book club. We love books and read them all the time. What is the one book that you would say every woman needs to read?
Dr. Sara Gottfried 1:02:46 So I would say women’s bodies women’s wisdom by Christiane Northrup, that’s the book that changed my life made me want to go into women’s health.
Dr. Mindy 1:02:55 Awesome. Okay. If you could go back to your 20 year old self and give her advice. What would you tell her?
Dr. Sara Gottfried 1:03:05 I would tell her breakup with the guy sooner than you think like don’t hang in there for months to years. When you know it’s not working. Boundary issue.
Dr. Mindy 1:03:18 Oh my gosh. It’s like what they tell you it when you’re a boss, like hire slow and fire fast. Exactly.
Unknown Speaker 1:03:25 That guy.
Dr. Mindy 1:03:27 I love it. Okay, women’s hormones in general, if there was only one thing we could do right now as as a as women, let’s just say to change our hormonal picture. What do you think that that would be?
Dr. Sara Gottfried 1:03:42 tendon befriend. So tendon befriend. So the data on the sympathetic nervous system Fight Fight flight was developed on men by Walter candidate Harvard.
Unknown Speaker 1:03:56 And
Dr. Sara Gottfried 1:03:57 it doesn’t apply to women the way that we once thought. So women do best with managing cortisol when they tend and befriend. So I think the more that we have tendon befriend in our lives, whether that’s hiking with a girlfriend, you and I need to go hiking, so I would love it. I would love it to so go hiking go walking in the stream like you did in your reels, you know, do the things that really help you with tending and befriending that’s how women manage their stress so much better than that.
Dr. Mindy 1:04:26 I love that. That was well said. Okay, last thing, or no, I got two more. What’s one of the greatest gifts that you got from the pandemic? so far? We’re still in it. But what has been one of the greatest gifts you’ve you’ve received?
Dr. Sara Gottfried 1:04:41 I have to say the conversations with my family. Yep. So I went from traveling about 50% time to traveling not at all and, you know, yesterday I was at a beer garden. I was not drinking beer, but I was with my husband who was drinking beer. And we had this Adventure packet that we were there, these little cards that you pick a card and they kind of talk and share about something about adventure. And that for me is emblematic of what the pandemic has done for me, it’s gotten me to slow down to, to really treasure these moments with my family and friends. And to really, you know, kind of go deeper and give myself more so huge gift.
Dr. Mindy 1:05:24 Yeah, I would agree. You know, my, our son is going into his freshman year at Santa Clara University. And he was home all last year. And he ended up doing a little cooking Monday night cooking club, where he his friends would come over. And I literally would go into my kitchen and there would be like, this like pounding music with these guys with their shirts off, like cooking in the kitchen. And I thought there’s no way if this pandemic hadn’t happened that these boys these high school boys, we’ll be doing this. I love it. Okay, I want to come to your house. So a lot of fun. A lot of fun. Okay, last one. If you had one message for the world right now, what would that be?
Dr. Sara Gottfried 1:06:08 Friend your brain, huh? Like, especially for those of you who are 40 and older, don’t wait until you have some scary diagnosis of Alzheimer’s disease or your memory is declining. Do everything you can to take care of your brain and your executive functioning. Now, before it’s too late.
Dr. Mindy 1:06:29 Hey, resetera, I just want to start off by saying thank you so much for all your wonderful reviews. And those of you that have left me comments on iTunes. I just greatly appreciate your thoughtfulness and how much you guys are enjoying these episodes. And it seems like you’re enjoying them as much as I am enjoying doing them. One of the things that I’ve learned in just interacting with so many people is that we’ve really lost the art of deep conversations. And for me, the resetter podcast stands for having meaningful conversations with people who are thinking about health, about life about mindset in a way that we may not be getting on social media or in mainstream media. And so I just want to say give you guys a shout out and just say thank you for participating in this process with me. Because as much as I absolutely love delivering the information to you, I love even more knowing that it’s impacting your life. So please let us know if there’s anything we can do to make this podcast more customized to you to make it better. We are now officially in season two. And we are working to bring you the best conversations that health influencers have that mindset changers can give and to really deliver you something that you’re not able to get anywhere else. So from the bottom of my heart, as I always say my YouTube from the bottom of my heart. I am deeply appreciative of you I am deeply grateful to be on this journey with you and let’s get healthy together.