Foster Mealtime Relationships & Increase Your Longevity – with Shawn Stevenson

Dr. Mindy Pelz  

On this episode of The resetter podcast, I am bringing you my friend Sean Stephenson. So hopefully some of you heard my interview with Sean on his podcast if you haven’t, it was really good one on fasting and women. His shows called the model health show. But on this episode, what I wanted to bring him in to talk about which is so powerful is how the environment you eat affects the health of that food. Think about this for a second. When we eat, we simply put so much attention on the quality of the food, the combination the food, the calories, the food, but do we stop and think about the environment of food and how it affects what that food will do in our body? Well, Shawn was definitely the man to talk to on this. If you’re not familiar with him, he is a USA Today national best seller for his book called Eat smarter. He is also got the number one health podcast in America, the model health show, and he has a new book out called Eat smarter family cookbook. And this book is like what they call a cookbook plus, meaning that there’s great recipes. But there’s also great information in the beginning on how you create this environment in your home, that sets you up to succeed with your food. So in this episode, you’re going to hear all the studies I mean, he has study after study after study that explains why there is this beautiful intersection between what social science and nutritional science and how when we use what social sciences teaching us about relationships and connection, and all the things I’ve been talking about with oxytocin and your parasympathetic nervous system. And we use that in combination with all the good information that science is teaching us about nutrition, that we actually can take our health to a whole different level than we knew possible. So this was such a joy to chat with him. I do not believe that this information is gotten out into the world enough. So I am so excited to share with you why the environment you eat your food in matters and possibly matters as much as the quality of the food you eat. Sean Stephenson enjoy a Dr. Mindy hare and Welcome to season four of the resetter podcast. Please know that this podcast is all about empowering you to believe in yourself. Again, if you have a passion for learning, if you’re looking to be in control of your health and take your power back, this is the podcast for you. Enjoy.

Dr. Mindy Pelz  

Okay, well, Shawn, I feel like you had me over to your house to have dinner, hence your podcast, your podcast house, and now I get to have you over to my house to have dinner. Although we’re not eating, we’re talking about some really cool nutritional things. So welcome. I’m so happy you’re here.

Shawn Stevenson  

It’s my pleasure. And also, of course, we know we’ve heard this before that you are what you eat. But it’s also you are what you think you are what you share these different ideas. We’re consuming this stuff. So we really are sitting down for a meal. So it’s my pleasure. So

Dr. Mindy Pelz  

well said, you know, that’s been my latest like rally cry is that we need to sit down and with as many different people as possible, we need to engage, even in conversations with people we don’t agree with, so that we can start to expand our thought process. And I can’t think of a better place to put a bunch of people together to really vet some great ideas than a dinner table, or even a meal table at all. So I want to start off with Why did you write this book because it’s not just a normal cookbook, you’ve got some really interesting concepts about meal meals and socializing and the impact on nutrition. So why don’t we start there? And then I have a whole bunch of questions to ask you because I have some new theories in my head that I think you’re going to be able to answer,

Shawn Stevenson 

of course, yeah. So I’m a nutritionist, you know, so this is I’ve been in the field for 21 years. And I’m a big fan of food, but I don’t see food in the same kind of lens. As folks that went to a traditional university like I did that get into this field. Food is so much more than just food food truly is its information. And there’s this bustling field right now of nutrigenomics Nutrigenetics. And looking at how each bite of food that we take changes our genetic expression. It is that powerful. It’s information. Right? And I remember in school, and we were taught This like kind of fundamental process of how our copies of ourselves are getting printed, essentially, from DNA to RNA to protein. And I had a conversation with one of my mentors, and he’s really the pioneer who pushed epigenetics into popular culture, Dr. Bruce Lipton. And in one of our conversations he shared with me that, Shawn, yes, proteins are kind of that fundamental last step that we see as far as the copies that were getting printed out. But one epigenetic input, like a bite of food can alter the expression or the potential of those proteins getting printed out, there can be up to 3000 different options on the copies that are getting printed of us. And that’s just from one gene. All right, so we have so much influence over that. And the reason that I wrote this book at its core is, it isn’t just the food itself, it’s the conditions in which we eat. It’s, it’s the environment, that is, of course, determining our food choices themselves, but also how we’re interacting with our food, how we’re interacting with the people around us, deeply, deeply influences the impact of the food that we’re eating. And so, you know, once I found out some of this data, it was like, I felt this burning within my, in my spirit to put this together. And like you said, this is not a conventional cookbook, by any means. Me being a big foodie, you’re going to get that you’re going to get the most delicious and right now, but the book has been out for about a week. Now as of this recording, and the internet is going nuts. All right, people are making these recipes and sharing them and they are flipping out. And from you know, older folks all the way to young kids are just loving the recipes, because I’ve had some time in this field to figure some of this stuff out. But at its core, the book also has 250 Plus scientific references in it, like embedded in the content, so cool. So that you know, for cut

Dr. Mindy Pelz  

back, that’s right, cool for a cookbook, I haven’t seen that cookbook.

Shawn Stevenson  

It’s never been done before. But it has to be in a way that is entertaining. That’s all inspiring. That’s fun, that’s also beautiful and elegant. And that’s kind of what life was qualifying me to be able to do, you know, working in this field this long, and also having my show for the past 10 plus years, and just being able to take complex things and make them palatable, and entertaining and fun. And just like Oh, I love that let’s let’s do that. Those kinds of revelations. And so, you know, the last little piece here that we’re going to dive into is truly like, I’ve got a ton of science, looking at this intersection between our social circles, our friends, our family, and the people around us, and our health outcomes all under the sphere of eating a meal together and how that can impact our health and it is going to blow people’s minds. Yeah.

Dr. Mindy Pelz  

So are you saying that the environment I’m eating a meal in can actually trigger genes on and trigger genes, or maybe trigger genes off like he has a genetic has a genetic influence on me? Absolutely.

Shawn Stevenson  

And so we go through some of this in the book, as well and pointing out some of these different studies. But it’s really important to understand that the most influential factor, if we’re talking about epigenetics is looking at the influence of our environment, our external and internal environment. And we have these basically, there are kind of like antennas, that these protein antennas on our cells that are picking up signals from the environment, but all of that stuff going on around us, it’s still going to be based on our perception of them. Because even our thoughts, change the chemistry in our bodies are made immediately. And so let me give an overarching study just to kind of look at like, what is the what is the most known as far as like factual data that we have on our relationships that influence on our health? And so I had a conversation recently with the director of the longest running longitudinal study on human health and longevity. Alright, so that means longitudinal means they’re following the same people. And this has been going on for over 80 years. So he’s the fourth director to have this baton pass to him at Harvard. And the data indicates, clearly it’s not even close. It’s not even close. Yes, sleep wellness is is important. Exercise, good food, all that stuff is great. But the quality of our relationships is by far the most influential factor on how long we’re going to live and live healthfully the quality of our relationships. And so in addition to that, one of the studies that I shared in the book and this is a massive study, this is a meta analysis of 148 studies. This is a huge set of data. So looking at multiple studies together in one study, and this included about 300,000 participants as well. And the researchers found that having healthy social bonds led to about a 50% reduction in all cause mortality for these 300 1000 people or so that means it’s a 50% reduction in dying prematurely from essentially everything. That’s how important of an epigenetic influence our relationships really are. So yes, absolutely.

Dr. Mindy Pelz  

And I think some of us have heard stats like that before. But what I really don’t want to be get lost in this conversation. Is this marriage between the social science and the nutritional science? Because it would be easy to hear that statistic and say, Well, yeah, I have good friends. We go out into the bar every Thursday night, and we have buffalo wings and, and beer. And it’s like, they’re my homies. But what what I think you’re saying is that whenever we sit down to a meal, if we can add good principles of nutrition with good principles of socializing, now we’ve taken our health to a whole next level, it’s not about eating a healthy meal while looking at Instagram and deciding you don’t like what people are saying. And it’s not about going out to the bar with the buddies, and eating whatever you want. But you’re socializing, you got to bring both those principles together, am I am I correct? Absolutely.

Shawn Stevenson  

And these are things that our genes expect from us through our evolution, we did food together, we did food together. And if you look at you know, there are still some hunter gatherer tribes around on the planet today, there, there are a couple of different locations where you can find them. But all of us, we evolve in kind of a tribal construct. And we did all of the parts of food together, hunting, gathering the food preparation, and eat, of course, eating together, and also celebration. It is during this, this act, where you even said earlier, like alluding to like the dinner table is really a unifier for conversation. But it’s also an important place for passing on culture and tradition. Prior to the advent of books, this is how we passed on traditions and culture and insights. And important revelations about our place in the universe, from generation to generation was surrounding the celebration of food and eating together. Right. This is where the kids were getting, you know, there’s dramatization of things. There’s a storytelling, there’s song, there’s dance, we see dramatizations of this act, if you go to a place like Hawaii, for example, and they put on a luau, right, but that is something that is embedded in all of our culture. My wife is from Kenya, right? So there’s a closer lineage or closer connection to that thing that everybody was doing on different parts of this planet. Right? And now, the question is what happens when that part gets pulled away, not only do we kind of move away from this tribal construct, I could say devolve, in a sense, but we started to live we created, you know, communities or neighborhoods, right. But even within that, and there’s still some more of that today, where you still have your extended family in close proximity. All right, that was still a thing, then just in the last couple of decades, we’ve branched out even further and oftentimes, we don’t have extended family nearby. And then, just within the last 20 years, something we really couldn’t have even seen coming, fractured our connection even more, because even inside of our own household, we’re now divided because of our devices. People can be existing there at the same time, and completely pulled into another reality, and not present with the people in their own household. And so this is really a call to action to bring us back together. Because as a data indicates, there’s something really important missing and that ingredient for a healthy functional human being that was pulled away in the last little part here I want to share on this is, I’ll just I’ll tell you, the study that prompted me is just like, I have to write this book. And there was these researchers at Harvard were compiling data on eating behaviors of family members and their food choices for years. And I was just like, what this is, this is amazing. And I was digging through the data. And they found that families that eat together on a regular basis, strangely, were consuming more real foods consuming significantly, not even close significantly higher amounts of essential nutrients that prevented diseases and those family members. And they were just kind of naturally consuming less Ultra processed foods, chips and soda and all these kinds of nefarious ingredients. Also, they noted they were consuming significantly less. And then couple that with a study that was published in the journal Pediatrics was looking at specifically the health outcomes of kids and they found that eating together with their parents or their caregivers on a regular basis, they found three meals a week was the minimum effective dose, there was a dramatically reduced incidence of development of obesity in those children significantly reduced incidence of developing eating disorders. And then for the parents. One other study, I’ll just throw in here as well, this was looking at office workers at IBM in the tech industry. And they were tracking their eating behaviors with their family and stress management with work. And they found that when these office workers were able to consistently eat dinner with their families, regardless of how high their stress was at work, they were able to essentially metabolize that stress remain more balanced work, morale stayed high productivity, stress levels stayed negligible, again, can be super stressful at work. But there was something that was helping them to metabolize and process that stress. By the way, I don’t talk about this often. Also, in the study, they found that even if there was conflicts in the family, if there was personal conflicts, all of that stuff was reduced when they consistently ate dinner with their family. But as soon as work and other obligations cut into that face to face mealtime, guess what happened. Stress levels became intolerable work, morale went down, productivity went down, their health started to go down. There’s something essential our DNA expects, with food, and family, food and friends, friends included to food and community. There’s something really protective for us as a species. When we do those two things together.

Dr. Mindy Pelz  

I can tell you why this happens hormonally. Because and this is it’s so interesting, Shawn, that you’re talking about this, because this was like a recent AHA that I had watching so many people use the principles that I wrote about and fast like a girl. And I was asking myself, like, why do some people use those principles, and they like drop weight really quickly, they get really good results. And other people seem to get stuck, what is the stickers, what is causing people to get stuck with that result. And when I dove into it, I It’s all goes back to this hormonal hierarchy. And the hierarchy is that if you are saturated with cortisol, you become insulin resistant. So it does not matter what the quality of your meal is, as in is where I guess it does matter. But it matters as equally how you’re what you’re going to do with that cortisol. So I got thinking, like, well, what if you bring oxytocin in? If oxytocin comes in, then now cortisol goes down, and now you’re more insulin sensitive. Okay, well, how do we bring oxytocin into the meal, and I, literally, Shawn, I was like thinking this last, like the last couple of months, and I was like, We got to eat around people we love we got to eat in a oxytocin rich environment. And that’s what you’re saying. And when you’re saturated with oxytocin, your cells literally, from a blood sugar standpoint, are going to be able to take that blood sugar, put it in so that it can activate what it’s supposed to activate in the cell. So it doesn’t get stored as fat. So I literally have been like thinking the environment matters as much as the quality of the food. And you just proved it scientifically. Yes.

Shawn Stevenson  

And actually, there’s in some ways this even Trump’s that, which I’ll talk about in just a second. But you hit it right on the nose, because I’m a big white person. I’m like, Yeah, this is crazy that people are getting these health outcomes, these benefits from eating with people that they care about. And right, it goes to and oxytocin gets this nickname of like the cuddle hormone, or the love hormone. And it’s one of the few things it’s been found to essentially kind of neutralize the activity of cortisol. And it’s not just like a surface thing, there’s a big switch over because with cortisol, which is for a lot of us is that you know, get up and go and all the things we’re very good at getting hyped and getting up and getting going. But we’re not very good at downregulating. Right? So cortisol is part of the kind of sympathetic, we call it, quote, fight or flight nervous system, which for most of us today, which is always it’s always just running in the background. And this is sort of like a system that is binary, like you’re you’re not doing both at the same time, you’re either fight or flight, or you switch over to the parasympathetic. And here’s a nickname for this one. This is where all comes together, rest and digest, rest and digest nervous system. And so what we’re seeing as well is we’re seeing improved assimilation of nutrients. We’re seeing higher levels of satiety when we’re eating with people that we care about. And also, again, the most remarkable aspect and you just detailed some of the kind of underneath the hood things is we’re producing more oxytocin, and it’s so rejuvenative in so many different ways. And also, there’s another layer of this, which is just the psychological aspect, right? When we are with people that we care about, and in particular, especially for kids, just to feel seen, especially today, you know, we have a deep human need to feel significance like we matter and so on. Often, again, with all of our screens, and you know, I’ve, all of us have been guilty of this or just being like, you know, not now, you know, I’ve just, you know, let me finish this thing. And our kids are just growing and changing at lightning speed. And so to move all this stuff to the side, to get real face time, and to allow our kids and ourselves to, to feel seen, to feel important, and to be able to offload stress, right, just the act of talking, even if you’re not talking about the thing, just the act of being present starts to offload stress, and especially again, in a safe space where you feel cared for. This is why those researchers found it wasn’t just an reduction in work stress, there was a reduction in relationship conflict, they didn’t have to talk about the conflict. But just being around those people, especially there’s something remarkable about doing it with food. That’s really, really nourishing for our souls. Oh,

Dr. Mindy Pelz  

I’m sure it’s primal, don’t you think it’s like we we probably in the primal days, we didn’t like take our, our piece of meat and like, go off into the corner and eat, we ate around a fire. And so I’m sure there’s a primal reason behind that. And it’s interesting. The other thing that you have me thinking is, so I’ve been working, personally coaching some people recently that have had some like food, relationship challenges with food, let’s just put it this way. And, and I put continuous glucose monitors on them is what I do. And one of the women said to me recently, she’s like, I don’t understand how I could eat a high carb meal. With my family. She literally she’s like, I had family in town. She was staying in Copenhagen. She’s like, I’ve had family in town, and all of a sudden, they show up, I eat all the wrong things. And my glucose goes down. Explain to me how that happened. And I that’s when I said, because the environment you’re eating in matters, you can manage your blood sugar more effectively if you eat a monkey in that rest and digest in that oxytocin rich environment. So yeah, I think it’s it’s so simple. It’s so primal. And yet, why aren’t we doing it? Yes,

Shawn Stevenson  

that is the question. And there’s a reason why, of course, and you just really alluded to what I meant earlier, like this potentially Trumps even the food quality itself, which of course it matters. And what we tend to do in our culture today, and there’s even a name for it is stress eat, or stress eating when we’re in a stress state is when we tend to eat, quote, bad food, right? So things that are richer in sugar, in particular carbohydrates, but there’s a primal reason for that, too. These carbohydrates, get serotonin going in our bodies a little bit more to just balance us out, make us feel a little bit more calm and balanced. But sometimes we don’t think we don’t realize that we’re doing this. But the very best time to eat foods that we might slap a label on as being like a bad food or a cheat meal or something like that is when you feel good. When you are in that kind of oxytocin state, when you’re feeling good when you are with friends and family. This is one of the things we see in other cultures where again, celebration, they might be having wine and bread and all these things, but they’re still men about their metabolic health is so far superior to people that even eating here eating a, quote, healthy diet, but they’re eating oftentimes in isolation. And one of the studies this was published in Nutrition Journal found that, yes, we do have strong data affirming that when we eat alone in isolation on a consistent basis, in particular, in front of screens, we tend to eat have poor food quality, we tend to eat more, as well. And of course, we see worse health outcomes, as well. And so this isn’t just guesstimating, or thinking that this is a theory. Like, we know that this is the case, we’re just getting more and more science to affirm this. And so what we want to do is proactively use this to our advantage. And as you mentioned, how why is this happening? I mean, this is really simple. But we hear here in the United States, we invented the TV dinner, we invent it. Oh

Dr. Mindy Pelz  

my gosh, yes. I’m the product of the 70s I had TV dinners.

Shawn Stevenson  

Me too. I grew up in the 80s You know, my I had the Saulsbury steak mashed limp corn, you know, absolutely.

Dr. Mindy Pelz  

And apple pie. The apple pie was in the upper right hand corner. Listen,

Shawn Stevenson  

and also of course, like it’s, it’s changing even our our palate, right. So it’s all these soft, kind of mushy, I’m eating a mushy steak, right and so I’m not getting these flavor inputs and these different texture inputs that also drive us because after a meal like that, we have to have the Apple Pie, we have to have something with some texture with some with some crunchy or potato chips, or crunchy cookies or things like that. And by the way, this is affirmed. I don’t know if people have heard about this, it’s called it Sonic chip experiment. And it actually won a Nobel Prize, or the experiment itself in egg Nobel Prize, which is kinda like, on the periphery of the Nobel Prize is things that are kind of weird, that essentially can make people laugh, but also make you think. And so the sonic chip experiment, the researchers took test subjects and had them put on headphones, so that they can modulate the crunch and the experience of the crunch from eating. Not Doritos, Pringles. Pringles because the Pringles are uniform in that talk. And they’re pretty much the same uniform size, density, all the things. But what they found was that by increasing the value of certain notes of the crunchiness, it made the the study participants feel like the chips were fresher than they were about 15% fresher, and better for them essentially more more joyful was was the key word. So more enjoyment, better for them, fresher, all the things based on the sound. And this speaks to like, our experience of food isn’t just about the food. It’s not just about taste. It’s textures, its sound. And this goes back, we keep jumping back into early humanity. But these were all essential inputs for us to, for us to really find out if that food is good for us if it’s safe to eat. These are all inputs, because there’s a big difference between biting into a crisp apple and a soft, mushy apple. Right? Yes, we would be averse to that. But with processed foods, they found ways a chick trick our brains because that’s it’s not even there’s nothing real or healthy or natural about it at this point. So they manipulate certain aspects of the food to keep us coming back for more. i

Dr. Mindy Pelz  

The thought of even biting into a crunchy crisp apple like I’m salivating thinking it’s you’re right. It’s the crisp. I’m like, oh, that sounds so again. So how do we create this environment? Because I, you know, it sounds like Oh, as simple as just put yourself around people you love eat around people you love. But what, you know, there’s a lot of households where the families are fighting, or you don’t really love the PA, maybe you’re at work and you’re in a meeting, it’s super stressful? Or maybe you’re alone? Like how do we help support those people in creating a loving, I’m going to call it like a love bubble around them while they eat so that they have the get the best out of them their food choices.

Shawn Stevenson  

So thank you for asking that question. Such a good question that we have. Our lifestyles are as diverse as we are as people. And we need to honor that, because we are living in 2023 as of this recording, and you know, we have all this innovation, they have all these cool things for us to engage with. And we have to look at the results. For us. As far as our health is concerned. You know, we have multiple epidemics of chronic diseases and mental health conditions that have never been seen before. They’ve skyrocketed in the last couple of decades. So we need to be aware of that there’s a mismatch happening, we have all this apparent innovation, but we’re not doing well as far as our health is concerned. And so we don’t want to shun all the cool stuff we have access to. That’s all good. We could still, you know, social media, and you know, media and all the technology and all that stuff, that’s fine. But we need our genes are expecting us to interact with real people in the real world. So how do we do that? And to, to transition into that is like the final point of how do we get here, which is processed food industry has made it seem like it’s so complicated, don’t you don’t have to work anymore. Just get out of the kitchen. You know, put your kid a hot pocket in the microwave Dinner is served, right? This marketing to us that it is difficult to take care of ourselves. And it’s difficult to feed our families. And they’ve made it ridiculously simple on the surface. But the mid to long term ramifications is massive problems with our health. And so wherever we are the spectrum family you just mentioned and like, sometimes we don’t necessarily like the people that we might be love. All right. Yeah. And that’s just a state of reality for some people. I don’t know. Have you ever seen a TV show yellow stone? Oh, yeah. Oh, yeah. You know, Beth Dutton has not finished a dinner with her family ever. All right, it just doesn’t happen. She’s gonna be a prime

Dr. Mindy Pelz  

example. It’s a great with

Shawn Stevenson  

that said, you, you know your family better than anybody. At this point. They are aware that Beth is going to get run away from the table pissed off started stuff, and then they’re going to sit around and enjoy dinner after that, you know? So they

Dr. Mindy Pelz  

commonly do that’s so true.

Shawn Stevenson  

Or, or we can fight, you know, against the personality of the person not to say that somebody is going to be that extreme. But what I’ve seen in this is going to be very logical is that part of the disconnection that’s happening with parents and with children also, again, across generations, is we don’t address the monster. While it’s small, right? Because we’re so out of touch with each other, and missing out on the vital data that we’re, whether it’s your significant other, whether it’s your kids, they’re giving you feedback and data on how they’re doing, and what they’re struggling with. What might be what might be causing them internal turmoil. But if we’re not checking in, because a lot of our communication, we know that the majority, this is top tier psychology, the majority of our communication is nonverbal. All right, right. So if you’re not actually paying attention to your loved one, if you’re not taking the time to actually see them and to be present, you’re going to be missing out on a lot of that very vital data. So you could see like, where are they really at? How are they really feeling. And I can see those little subtle things, but also just the act of when we’re eating, you could see the kind of stress offload you know, my my kids, we created a culture, where they’re talking about their days where they’re talking about crazy stuff happening with these kids, little Kardashian things going on. And just like elementary school, my son, my youngest son will joke about it. It’s like, it’s not really that serious, but just like, What are these kids creating drama for, you know, with each other. But I would miss that if I didn’t create an environment where he feels free to share those things. And so, okay, so we’ve got the kind of conventional family construct. But what if you’re not living with family or you don’t have kids right now? Yeah. Again, we don’t want to villainize having some time, like you kick back, watch your favorite show and have a meal or on your lunch, whatever. That’s cool. But what I would implore everybody to do is to schedule time each week, I’m a big three is three in the data three was at minimum effective Oh, yes,

Dr. Mindy Pelz  

three. That’s right. Good point, to read three times a week.

Shawn Stevenson  

But also, you know, just depends on where you are, right now, if you’re going zero to three, that might be a big jump, just even twice a week scheduling, if it’s a lunch with a friend, if it’s just going and having coffee, it is so important for your soul, for your psychology and for your health truly, to just, we do so many things that are less important schedule that time. If again, if your family isn’t close by, whether it’s a date night with your significant other, whether it’s you know a coffee with your friend, schedule it, it’s make it real, even the act of scheduling puts in place like we scheduled all this other stuff that is not nearly as important as your relationships and your health. Literally, we started this off talking about how our relationships are the most powerful controller of how long we’re going to live. And by the way, and that study that I mentioned with 148 studies and meta analysis from that was from Brigham Young University. They also noted like, relationships were more impactful than overcoming obesity than exercise. They specifically noted those things like, well, things are cool, but it is our relationship. So invest in that. And also, we need to make a shift in our culture. And we have to take it upon ourselves to do this right now. Yeah, you know, I went to the number two, High School in Missouri, alright, it was number eight. Number two, such a good school. I didn’t learn a thing about building healthy relationships, even though it is the most important determining factor on my health, on my success, on my happiness on my habits, it is a tip of the spear kind of controller of everything else downstream. Yeah, that’s why it matters so much. But we’re just not taught. You can accidentally have good relationships or accidentally have shitty woods. That’s pretty much right. The state that we’re in, we’re just kind of thrown into this thing instead of like, no, that’s what makes platforms like this. So important, is bring we could bring on the very best people in the world in their respective fields when it comes to relationships and learn from them. But we have to share this knowledge we have to share it with our kids. We have to advocate for this start to get shared in kind of conventional education settings as well. Because the quality of our relationships truly I can’t even stress this enough how important this is. But last little piece here sometimes if we’re if we feel like we’re lacking that we can tell ourselves a story that it’s not possible for us. It’s not accessible for us. And I’m telling you from the perspective of someone that was Eisah laded that was I lived in Ferguson, Missouri at the time, I was the first person in my family to go to college, let alone graduate from college. And if you don’t have a model, like it’s just all manner of messed up things happening, that are just obstacles in me figuring this thing out, I have a mattress on the floor at this one bedroom apartment. And my health is terrible. As you know, I was diagnosed with an advanced arthritic condition of my spine in my bones, when I was just 20, which was years in the making to have the manifestation of that condition degenerative disc disc disease at just 20. Alright, it’s absurd. So I’m in, I’m in massive pain. I am deeply, deeply feeling alone. And a mismatch and like feeling like I’m trying to do something good with my life, but it just doesn’t seem to work out. And so I know what it feels like to feel isolated. But when I made a decision to get well, number one, which a lot of times we don’t do we just kind of like well, I don’t know, we’ll see. But, you know, I just got to give this a try. I made a decision to get well. And little did I know that it would be through relationships that I was going to get there, I had a couple of you know, just kind of like distant friends, whatever. One of them I had known her for like three years. And when I made the decision to get well, within two weeks, she took me to a health food store. I’d never, we hadn’t even been anywhere together before. It’s just like, I was just riding in the car with her and we pull up here, I didn’t know that existed, you know? And so now I realize because some of us can be also, you know, extreme introverts, right? Or like, Yeah, I’m

Dr. Mindy Pelz  

just gonna say that’s what we want to speak to is that person who loves being by themselves.

Shawn Stevenson  

I refuel that way, I would rather be hanging out with a good book, and going on a walk by myself. I like, all right, I get it. And I know how vital it is. Because even the most introverted among us, we need each other, our genes expect us to connect, we would not survive. Throughout our evolution, we would not be here without other people helping us to, you know, those inputs from you know, again, just even that tucked touch and exposure, we need these things. And last little cherry on top when I was in that situation. And again, deciding to get well deciding to make it a mandate for myself to this is the tough part, sometimes we have to close a chapter on relationships that are not serving us, that could be hurting our health, really address those things, and sometimes to make room for something better. But we have to choose it. And we have to qualify ourselves. A lot of these things have to do with us getting better ourselves, so that we feel truly like we deserve what we deserve. Because at the end of the day, we absolutely do. But sometimes we might not realize it.

Dr. Mindy Pelz  

So I have a couple, a couple of thoughts came to me as you were talking about this. And I and I think you’re the right guy to ask this to. So it when we look at science, and the and what we know about the research on everything, right? When you’re talking about social research, you’re talking about nutritional research, those those are often done unless it’s like a meta analysis like the Harvard one, those are often done in a very contained environment. And then what I see that happens on social media, is that we start debating science. And we’re like, no, that’s that was done in mice, that wasn’t done on women, and we start having this fight with each other about science, if it’s right, or if it’s not, right. And I’m starting to wonder, and then we and then we were like, I’m not gonna follow you anymore, because you don’t believe what I believe. And so I feel like as much as I love the studies, you’re quoting, I’m also getting to the point where I’m starting to get frustrated with us using science as our guiding light for our proper health habits, because it’s too one dimensional. And this is why I love what you said when we started which is social science with the nutritional science. How do we bring all these pieces together for our benefit? So I asked you that because I love your studies. But do you feel like science is leading us in the wrong direction when it comes to health because it is so curated? And then we are having human argument arguments over it.

Shawn Stevenson  

So part of the reason that I approach things in AI in the way that I do, utilizing the best peer reviewed data that we have. One of the things that I do and this is the thing is it’s like a full time job truly to be able to dig through this data and to find out out who’s funding the data to look at. And here’s, here’s the rub, this is the most challenging part. And I encourage people to do this. If they really want to work in this field, and work as a research scientist, or something of the like, you have to also dig up and look at published papers that have some validity to them, that disprove what you believe. All right. So looking at both ends of the spectrum, because usually the truth is somewhere in the middle. And understanding a lot of these different studies are, they have a vested interest in affirming some. And so we have to keep that in mind in our back pocket, because and this was my initial intention, by the way. Even in this particular, I mentioned this earlier, I’ve been in this field for 21 years, and about 12. And I’m sorry, 11 years now, having the top health podcasts in the country several several times over which kind of like it’s like Billboard charts. But I brought something into play that didn’t exist before, which was I use some peer reviewed data. And then I go into common sense. All right, Ribes that is an open door. Because I know that the reality, the reality is just reality. And some for sometimes for especially for people like myself, that are very analytical, that have a tendency of skepticism, to have a little bit of science. But now we got to get into like, this is based on reality, this is based on your individual experience, the or anecdotal data that might be ignored in peer reviewed literature, is the most important aspect of your reality. And we have to honor that. Absolutely. And so that’s kind of been behind the scenes of how I think and so now, you’ll see that replicated with a lot of my peers. And these folks, you know, I end up meeting them later on, but you know, we use this, here’s the study, and then we go into whatever. And so it was a format that I found to be helpful, just to start to speak to different, because we think in different ways we learn in different ways. And so I was my attempt was to be more encompassing. And yeah, so again, we want to take some of this stuff with a grain of salt, when it comes to the different studies that are that are out there. And also rejoice in the fact that there are even still, most studies, unfortunately, today are getting funded by the pharmaceutical industry, or processed food industry. And it is what it is because just to get a grant of scientists who like students at school, they want to, they want to question something wanted run, so you’re not going to get money, if you’re going to do anything that goes against how everybody’s profiting right now. So it’s like, it’s very difficult. And we still do have scientists who are asking these really interesting questions, who were asking about how our relationships are really affecting us underneath the surface? Asking how are you know, there’s the microbiome is having a moment right now, for example, like, yes, how does our gut health influence our mental health and all these different things? So you got great people asking questions, even a sonic chip experiment, for example, really interesting, kind of funny, fun stuff. But, you know, that’s, we want to rejoice that but also take it with a grain of salt.

Dr. Mindy Pelz  

So would you say, then you look at Sciences as an opportunity to be curious about whatever they found. I find the word curious, really helpful. Because if we’re curious about what we see with science, then we can make decisions for ourself. It’s i The phrase I always use is science gets us in the ballpark, you get to choose what seat you’re gonna sit at. And and we have to sort of integrate it for ourself. Which actually leads me to the next question that I have for you. I think you’re the perfect guy to answer this. And, and it ties into this environment that we’re eating in is that so many people right now are getting health advice from their social media feeds? And I am curious, my fear is that we’ve gotten to this place where we’re looking for small little sound bites to determine the direction that we go with our health. Do you feel like social media is helping our health? Or do you feel like it’s hurting our health right now?

Shawn Stevenson  

That’s such a good question. You know, at the end of the day, we’re going to experience what we’re associating with what we’re tuned into. So people that are following people that are out there teaching health information, they’re going to have a tendency to engage in more of that stuff in the real world. And to be potentially healthier, I think there’s a higher likelihood because you’re just killing the station. Now, with that said, it can be frustrating because everybody and their mother and father is you know, coming with their perspective on things. And as you mentioned, you know, even though we’ve got the most robust data set ever compiled about human health, that is saying, hey, A it is our relationships that, you know, there are going to be people like, you know, my relationships mess me up. I’m messed up because of that. And again, we cannot ignore that that’s a story. But also, we don’t want to be the person who is tuned into, you know, another kind of virus, which is the missing the point virus that can get spread around, right? Because we tend to just see like, that isn’t true for me, and close ourselves off from a potential. So we want to validate and honor our own stories, but also stay open. You said the magic word earlier, stay curious. Don’t refute something immediately. Look at things from multiple perspectives. There’s a great definition of wisdom that I learned many years ago is wisdom is looking at things from multiple perspectives. But I know for myself personally, growing up in the conditions that I did, I just saw through my one lens, I wasn’t zooming out in looking at things from other people’s perspectives from, from an from a more of them like a meta perspective of looking at situations, good or bad. But there’s, our reality is based on our perception, and if we’ve got one view of things, we’re going to suffer, if something disrupts our view of reality, we’re going to be a total mess. But even when a challenge comes up, it’s like, we can even just by asking questions, for example, by being curious, we can instantly reframe things and find more of a, like a silver lining, I’m thinking about Silver Linings Playbook shout out to Bradley Cooper. But basically, you know, like, if there’s a challenge coming up, it’s just having the audacity to ask, what is this trying to teach me? What is this challenge? Trying to teach me? What is the potential gift in this? Right? Or if you’re even if you’re having a hard day, you know, are you you got a great a big task in front of you something that’s really difficult that you are resistant to even get into asking, like, how can I make this fun? You know, like, we have the power to reframe things very quickly. And it’s also I found it to be very helpful to, you know, there’s a great exercise in the book Thinking Grow Rich, Napoleon Hill from way back in the day, and I was first introduced to this book by Bob Proctor, who was like, personal development it was, and I’ve, I cannot, again, coming from where I come from, how on earth am I having conversations with Bob Proctor? It is bananas. All right, but he shared this book with me. And there’s this exercise too, when you’re dealing with a challenge, and or you’re just trying to accomplish a goal, to seek counsel from your trusted advisors, but you do this manually, right? So if you’re wanting to improve your health, you know, you close your eyes, you know, maybe do some breathing exercises, and then you sit at a table. Ira is here’s we are sitting with the table. Yeah. And you’ve got Dr. Mindy Pelz sitting here. You’ve got Sean Stephenson sitting next to her. Right. You’re Dr. Bruce Lipton sitting on that side. And then on the other side, maybe it’s three other people. And you go around the table and you pose that question to them, okay, I’ve been struggling for the last five years to normalize my blood sugar. Like I don’t want to be on Metformin anymore. Dr. Mindy, what do you recommend? And just listen? Yeah, right. So it’s like bringing in multiple perspectives. Like, there’s so many cool ways that we can go about this, but we don’t want to box ourselves in, by seeing things from a limited view, because another part of this freedom in other parts of wisdom is seeking multiple perspectives.

Dr. Mindy Pelz  

That’s, that was so well said. Okay, I have to finish up this interview with probably maybe the most obvious question that we should have started with. And I know you and I are both huge Michael Beckwith fans. So and I’d be curious what he would say we can maybe energetically involve him in this got this answer. But and in any research that you saw, where prayer before you eat, has an impact on how that food is going to assimilate into your cells.

Shawn Stevenson  

So good. All right. I’m right here in this building. And my house, Michael Beckwith has been here, and he’s conducted prayers for us before we eat many, many times. And again, I would have never in a million years thought that that would be my life, you know. And there are a couple of things like this has been done for 1000s of years, by humans by our ancestors. And part of this is again, it’s like it’s that opening the door of that switch over to the parasympathetic nervous system, right to take a moment of pause to slow down, to close our eyes to breathe, and to listen to a message of connection. And even there’s, there’s there’s an entity there, there’s like, we know today even you know, like the folks at HeartMath Institute Just when we’re in proximity to each other, you know, the human heart has this very large electromagnetic field that extends beyond our bodies. And so these energies are interacting with each other, it’s kind of like, we’re starting to sync up or getting on one accord. And this is affirmed by researchers at Princeton, that just even a small people, they don’t even know each other small amount of rapport is created, our brains start to sync up. So they they start to, quote, mirror each other. Alright, so it’s starting that process of synchronous synchronization. So that’s part of it. And also, there’s an energy exchange, because we know from the, you know, the slit experiment, for example, the observer effect, we know that our observation of a thing changes the thing. We are, in fact, changing the world around us. And it sounds very like, that’s, it sounds like some science fiction stuff. But it is just realities as quantum physics, we cannot help but do it. And so we are in fact influencing, there’s an energy exchange with that food itself. So yeah, you might want to pray over your food. And we also have other practices, you got to find what feels good for you and your family as well. A gratitude practice, take a moment to just go around the table. And everybody could share three things that they’re grateful for, from a day, we could just take a moment of pause a moment of presence, just to take a breath, like, but what it is, is that’s opening the door for connection. It’s like that first domino for a truly beneficial and connected meal with people that you care about. So

Dr. Mindy Pelz  

well said, you know, I just heard something the other day, I want you to try this with your family. And it’s blindfold eating, when you sit down, put a blindfold on, and then really experience the food. And like taste it and and feel it in the textures. Like I when I heard that I was like, Oh my gosh, I think I would probably appreciate my meal a whole lot more. If I if I had the vision sense was taken away, I could really dive into all the experience of eating and what it’s providing that I’m probably missing with my eyes open.

Shawn Stevenson  

Hmm, what do you think of that said it truly, I mean, food is a multi sensory experience. And definitely we can get way too distracted from certain experiences that are just like, food really isn’t an explosion. It’s not Ultra processed foods. But just real food itself. There’s so many dynamic notes and humans by the way, we have a very complex flavor palette, largely because of the intersection with our, our our flavor sensors and our nose. Alright, it is the human nose is very special in the animal kingdom. We don’t think about it like that, because we’re not like bloodhounds out here, you know, sniffing out, you know, drugs getting confiscated, or whatever, at an airport. But we our senses have been evolved to like humans eat a lot of different things, far more different foods in any species ever. By far, we eat so many different things. And so we evolved the senses to really know if a food is safe for us on an entirely different level. So yeah, little exercises like that can can turn things on,

Dr. Mindy Pelz  

I have to tell you, as women, we actually smell out the best mate for us. And we smell it interpreted as far as what that mate will do for our immune system, knowing that when we reproduce, there’s going to be an immune change that happens when you actually get pregnant. And there’s I think I’m sure you’ve seen this study, that when women are on birth control, it can alter their ability to smell the proper partner, and they get married, and then they get off birth control. And they have this this shift in their relationship to their partner. So you bet yeah, smells huge. We’re not bloodhounds, but we are controlled by it. We just don’t give it enough enough credit. So I just I just had to put that plug in there. Because I think that I think smell is a very underrated part of our body when it comes to how we make health habit choices and how we make choices in our life.

Shawn Stevenson  

And it’s the strongest sensory experience connected to our memory

Dr. Mindy Pelz  

as well. Yes, yes.

Shawn Stevenson  

Because it goes right. Yeah, so like we smell certain smells can bring us back to certain moments, like Few things can for sure. Yeah. And also just that memory, like I know exactly how a bowl of Froot Loops smells. All right, like it’s so deeply ingrained but again, this is another thing for us to take advantage of together with our families. Right. One of the big first steps of food is the smells. I just did a segment on Good Morning America last week. And the the room the the the people behind the scenes, they were flipping out over the smells of this slow cooker chili that’s in the cookbook and they’re just like, eating the smells like they’re like grabbing it out the air, you know. So it’s just like it’s one of those things that is so inviting and pleasant. And it’s another thing to experience with people that you care about. Yeah,

Dr. Mindy Pelz  

amazing. Amazing. Okay. Well, before I ask you my last question, how do people find you your cookbook, your podcast, I hope people go diving into all of this.

Shawn Stevenson  

Ah, thank you so much. So you can pick up the Eat smarter family cookbook, anywhere that books are sold. All right, it’s out there. Barnes and Noble, Amazon, all the good stuff actually just saw today that it is officially a USA Today national bestseller. That list just came out today. I’m very grateful for that. And we’re not stopping. The mission is just getting started. Because we’re creating a movement for family wellness, and empowerment. And also I just saw, because the book is doing so well, Amazon has dropped the price by 20%, on Amazon, as well as you can go to amazon.com or an Amazon bookstore and pick it up there as well. But you know, definitely a fan of supporting local bookstores and keeping them keeping the doors open is a great vibe to bookstores still. But you could pick pick up the book anywhere. It’s such an honor, eat smarter family cookbook, and my show is called the model health show the model health show. And it’s available on all podcast platforms. So you can find me there, we do master classes on every subject matter that you can imagine and also bring on the very best people in the world in their respective fields. Of course, you’ve been on there was fire, it was so good. And one of the most downloaded episodes of the year. And, you know, so you can you can tap in there. And the great thing about that, again, we’re creating this, all you have to do is click play, you know, these platforms is free. And we get to determine like, what are we tuned into, because we could be spending that time tuned into whatever else. And that’s fine. But take that time and invest in your empowerment, you know, your education, things that make you feel good and feel more powerful in this world that is often fighting against you. You know, you got to fill up your own cup. And so that’s what it’s really all about. That’s why I appreciate you so much as well, because so much of that goodness for so many people. And I just want to thank you for that because we definitely feel it.

Dr. Mindy Pelz  

Thank you. Yeah, i Our hearts are aligned, you know, I think we both are deeply in this to create change. So so thank you for having this conversation. Okay, my last question, and I’m so curious what you’re gonna say? What’s your superpower? What do you think your if you had to pick one superpower you bring to this world? What do you think it is?

Shawn Stevenson  

Such a good question. My superpower and I’m not just saying this. I’m also I’m a very big like proof of concept person, because it’s not just me saying this. But what’s what’s been shared with me again and again and again, is that my superpower is connection. It’s helping people to understand things that will be seemingly complex, in a very simple and palatable and empowering way. So that’s really my superpower is taking the complex, and simplifying it so that we can actually use it for our benefit. Should we choose to

Dr. Mindy Pelz  

love it. I love it. Well, Shawn, thank you, you. Literally I’ve been really thinking deeply about food and the environment we eat and then poof, here we are having this conversation. So thank you for all the hard work and going through the science and I hope everybody grabs your book. So appreciate you.

Shawn Stevenson  

Thank you. Appreciate you.

Dr. Mindy Pelz  

Thank you so much for joining me in today’s episode. I love bringing thoughtful discussions about all things health to you. If you enjoyed it, we’d love to know about it. So please leave us a review, share it with your friends and let me know what your biggest takeaway is.