Lose Weight: Insane Benefits of Lowering Stress, Sugar, Alcohol & Coffee – with Dr. Rangan Chatterjee

Dr. Mindy  

On this episode of The resetter podcast, I bring you Dr. Rangan Chatterjee. Now I hope you all are familiar with Dr. Chatterjee. But if you’re not, you need to meet this man. So he has an incredible podcast called Feel better Live more. And he actually brought me on his podcast in February when fast like a girl was launched into the world. And we had one of the best discussions about hormones that I’ve had with anybody who’s interviewed me. And so I was recently in England and where he is based, and I met with him in person to do this podcast. And what I wanted him specifically to talk about was some real hacks for unsticking weight, because I know so many of you are struggling with getting that weight loss journey going. And Dr. Chatterjee not only has authored five books on lifestyle, all of which include tips for weight loss, but he has really, really looked at obesity from a unique angle. So in this podcast, we’re going to talk about sleep, we’re going to talk about timing of food, we’re going to talk about stress. There’s so many things we unpack in probably the most thoughtful conversation I have had to date on helping you all unstick your weight. So I can’t even I can’t say enough about how much I love this man. And what an incredible, incredible conversation this was. So Dr. Chatterjee. As always, I hope you enjoy this and it moves the needle on putting your health at the forefront of your life.

Dr. Mindy  

Hey, Dr. Mindy here, and welcome to season four of the resetter podcast. Please know that this podcast is all about empowering you to believe in yourself. Again, if you have a passion for learning, if you’re looking to be in control of your health and take your power back, this is the podcast for you. Enjoy. Okay, wrong. And does it feel weird, by the way to be sitting here in your studio being interviewed? It

Rangan Chatterjee  

does? I bet it does. I’m not used to being asked questions, right?

Dr. Mindy  

I’m wondering that are you going to be able to like let go of the interviewer?

Rangan Chatterjee  

I will try not to ask you any questions. I will try my best.

Dr. Mindy  

Excellent, excellent. So here’s what I want to start with. I always think about my audience and I think about what they’re struggling with. And weight loss just comes up over and over and over again, people just can’t seem to get over all the hurdles of weight loss. So I want to start with one question. Why can’t people lose weight? Why are we struggling with weight loss?

Rangan Chatterjee  

There’s many ways to answer that, Mindy. But the first way, I’d like to answer that as my saying the reason we’re struggling to lose weight is because we’re not addressing the root cause of our weight gain.

Rangan Chatterjee  

We think it’s simple. We think it’s just a case of eating less food and moving more. The problem is, for many people, that approach has proved really, really problematic, people are trying their best. And I think the first thing we have to really acknowledge is that it’s okay that we put on weight in this environment. If we brought our great grandparents to the modern food environment, you know, 60 70% of them would also be struggling with their weight, it’s not easy. And then we also have to acknowledge that as humans, one of our superpowers is our ability to store excess energy. So we can put on that fans for when we can’t get food for when winter comes. Your problem is winter never comes. And I think it’s almost always possible to help someone lose weight in a sustainable and responsible way. Once you find the right approach for them. Yeah. So I think one of the big problems is that we see what our friend has done, or our work colleague, and we go, right, that’s how you lose weight. And we try that approach. And we realize, oh, wait a minute, it works for her, but it doesn’t work for me. And that’s because there are multiple different things that can be at play. I’ll give an example. Sleep. But a lot of people when they think about weight loss, they think about foods, of course foods important and we’ll talk about foods, but not enough people are thinking about sleep. We know that if you sleep let’s say five, five and a half hours a night compared to seven and a half hours. On average you will consume 22% more calories the following day. Oh wow. Right. So that means five days of sleep deprivation means you eat a whole extra day’s worth of calories.

Dr. Mindy  

It’s crazy. Why does timing asleep matter in that scenario?

Rangan Chatterjee  

I’m not familiar with research saying timing of sleep matters. The point I often bring it with my patients is that sometimes you can lose weight by not even addressing your diets. I’ve got so many patients who I helped them lose weight, and I didn’t touch their diet. Yes, I just helped them sleep better. Because we don’t realize that, you know, we eat more the day after sleep deprivation. But not only that. We’re not craving fruits and vegetables the day after we haven’t slept. We’re craving high calorie sugar rich foods. Our willpower is lower the day after we haven’t slept. So not sleeping well. makes every other change you’re trying to make more difficult. Yeah. So circling back to your original question. Why are so many for struggling to lose weight is because we’re looking for cookie cutter approaches, we’ve haven’t empowered ourselves to find the right approach for us.

Dr. Mindy  

Yeah, I’m so in alignment with that. And that leads me to the question of is weight gain? An a food issue?

Rangan Chatterjee  

Not always.

Dr. Mindy  

Yeah, I mean, that alone is mind blowing. Okay, so what are the other issues? Well, outside of sleep, I

Rangan Chatterjee  

sleep is a big one stress. Okay, there was a study in America about 10 years ago now, which showed up on average 80% of people change their eating behavior, in response to stress. Now from recollection, it was about 45% of people eat more in response to stress 35% or so eat less. So let’s think about that. We know we’re living in very, very stressful times, five years ago, or so the World Health Organization put on their website that stress is the health epidemic of the 21st century, five years ago, that was five years ago, a pandemic pandemic, yeah, long time ago, it’s been there for a while. I think we all recognize that we’re living in uniquely stressful times, and that there’s a whole variety of reasons for that. But what that study is showing us that almost half of us eat more in response to stress. So we can talk about food, and of course, eating the right foods makes a big difference. But what I’m interested in, I think very much like human D is trying to figure out, what is the action that’s going to help this person lose weight? Yes. Right. And for some people, it’s the stress in their life. Yeah, there’s too much stress. And they’re using food as a way of dealing with the stress. So if we can help them in other ways, reduce the stress that in their lives, again, can be easier said than done. Sometimes, yes. But if we can do that, well, often they’ll naturally start to eat less. Stress is another factor. I think our timing if our food intake matters massively, right. A lot of the focus is on what we eat. But when we also matters, yeah, massively. And for some people, it matters more than others. Yes. And I know you talk about this a lot on your channel Monday. What all very, very different, right? We’ve all got different microbiomes. We’ve got different childhood experiences, we have different environments, different cultural preferences. And so it’s not going to be a one size fits all for everyone. And one of the big problems I see Monday is that you see people attacking others online, say no, that’s not true, right? This is the way you lose weights. But actually, if we can stand back from that, we can recognize that Wait a minute. That’s the approach for you. Yeah. Great. You found the right approach for you. Wonderful, right. That may not be the right approach. And me or the right approach was someone else. So I’m really keen with my patients to help them figure out what’s the right approach for them? Yeah, well, that’s Sorry.

Dr. Mindy  

Yeah. No, I was thinking on that. Oh, it’s funny. I had this one day as I was studying all the research on fasting, that it just hit me like a ton of bricks, that if we continue down the path of debating what foods style humans are supposed to eat, we are never making progress.

Rangan Chatterjee  

Yeah, because humans are opportunistic omnivores. Right. Our diets have always been dictated by geography and our climates. Yeah, always. Yeah. And it’s only now that we’re thinking that there’s one perfect diet that we should all be following. That’s simply not true. The diet for you is always going to depend on your age, you know, are you a bodybuilder, a young male bodybuilder? Or are you a pregnant woman in your 30s? The right diet for you may well change throughout your life. Yes, you may have had a course of antibiotics that has had a negative impact on your microbiome. And suddenly the foods that you use or thrive on, you no longer thrive on. So there’s a lot of nuance there. And the reason I’m so keen to really try and explain that nuance is because I think people are beating themselves up.

Dr. Mindy  

Oh, for sure. And but but also, when you hear what you just said, I think where the brain goes is, wow, well, then it’s way too confusing. Yeah. So how do we help unconfused? People?

Rangan Chatterjee  

Yeah, that’s a really good point. The first point I want to get across is that it is almost always possible to lose weights. Agreed, right. So I want people to just let that sink in for a minutes. Yeah. And if someone’s listening or watching this, and they think, Well, I’ve tried everything for 10 years. My hunch would be that you haven’t tried everything yet. You tried your best? Yeah. But let’s see if maybe through this conversation, or other conversations that they hear, they can find something that they haven’t quite, it hasn’t quite landed before, where they think, oh, wait a minute, maybe there’s something else. So that’s what timing of food for a minute. And I don’t think timing of Food Matters for absolutely everyone. But for some people changing the timing of their food intake is transformative. So what do I mean by that? I mean, there’s been a lot of research for a number of years now. I think it kind of started with Professor Sachin panda at the Salk Institute about time restricted eating this idea that we eat all the food that we’re going to eat within a fixed window. Yeah. And you know, the truth is, initially, a lot of those studies were done on mice. And people would say, Okay, but how does that replicate to humans? Now? I know he’s trying to do that now. And there are some good studies in humans. But let me talk about my clinical experience. Because ever since I read his early trials, I started implementing 10 hour and 12 hour eating windows with my patients. Because I thought, okay, we haven’t got it in humans yet. But it kind of makes sense on an evolutionary basis. Yes, the science is quite compelling, even though it’s done on mice yet. So let’s wait and see what happens with humans. But also, the question I’m always asking myself as a clinician is, how dangerous is this intervention? Right? What’s the downside here? And, you know, for most people, there’s no downside. So such in pandas research has shown that in America, I think over 50% of adults are consuming food and any given 24 hours in a 15 hour window.

Dr. Mindy  

That’s crazy. One, five, yeah, and we eat like 70 times, like you put 70, I saw a study that was like, sumps, over 70 times in that 15 hours, you’re putting something in your mouth. Yeah.

Rangan Chatterjee  

So you know, and honestly, I believe that 50 years ago, or so, no one was doing that. It’s quite a modern phenomenon, where often, let’s say we’re waking up early, for work at 6am. And some people will consume food straightaway or have a coffee that actually is like a dessert because of how much is in there, right, and the sugar and the cream and all the other things and the flavorings. And they’re still consuming at 10:30pm on the sofa in front of the television. So the point I’m trying to make here is very simply, we’re not designed to have food in our system the entire day. weights. So his research professor pan, this research has shown that if you just eat all the foods you’re going to consume within 12 hours, you can get all kinds of potential benefits now potential doesn’t mean everyone’s gonna get them. But for many people, you are weight loss, better blood sugar control, better hormonal balance, you know, better digestion, better sleep, the amount of women I’ve seen in clinic who had really bad IBS, irritable bowel syndrome symptoms. And they really struggled for years with medication and trying to change their diets. Sometimes when they compress their food into a 12 hour eating window or a 10 hour eating window, because you’re starting to work in harmony with your body. Right and you’re giving your digestive system a break. Often those symptoms go away or a vastly reduced. Yes. And I have so many patients Mindy over the years, who literally the way I helped them to lose weight was to say, Okay, I’m going to eat all my food within a 12 hour eating window or a 10 hour eating window. And I honestly believe that for most humans, that is very, very achievable.

Dr. Mindy  

Yes, Agreed. Agreed. It’s interesting. You say that because you know in my clinic, I once I caught on to this time restricted fasting idea. Literally I stopped, like prescribing supplements for for gastrointestinal situations like my supplement cells went way down, which is beautiful because people were actually healing themselves through this time restricted eating that you’re talking about. Yeah, and

Rangan Chatterjee  

I think people often ask well, what you know, what am I meant to do? Do I Do I skip my dinner? Do I Bring that earlier DO I DO I delay my breakfast? And again, what I would say is it kind of depends, right? Because it’s easy for me to give advice here without knowing that individual’s life. Yeah. And their lifestyle. And, you know, what are the demands on them? When did their kids like to eat? What time do they need to go to work? So to make it really simple, I said, Listen, if you’ve never tried to form a time restricted eating, I would say, give it a go. Right? Try 12 hours, can you eat all the food, you’re going to eat within 12 hours? If you can do that, and you can have a 12 hour gap and every 24 hours, and hopefully you’re sleeping for seven or eight hours, so those 12 hours, maybe experiment with bringing it back to 10 hours, and you have a 14 hour gap? And see, is this working for me? If it is great if it isn’t? Okay, there’s other tools in the weight loss toolkit we can talk about. That’s right. And I but I would always say, give that a go.

Dr. Mindy  

Are those your first two tools you would pull out?

Rangan Chatterjee  

I can. I can’t really say what’s the first tool because I assess every patient individually. So I will be looking at what they eat, why they eat, how they eat, and when they eat. Why I’m always looking at that when I think about food, I’m thinking about all those things. Why we eats was the second chapter of my book on weight loss. And I was really passionate about this chapter. Because I think people often feel bad Monday because they buy a new diet book. And they go okay, you know what, that diet didn’t work? Maybe this new diets gonna work? Yeah. And it might do, right. Sure. Sometimes it does work that you just went on the Wrights eating program for you. But sometimes it’s not what you’re eating most people in my experience who were trying to lose excess weight. And really excess body fat is what we’re talking about. The kind of know the basics, right? The issue for some people isn’t what we’re eating. It’s why we’re really saying what do I mean by that? I mean, I mentioned stress already how stress drives many of us to eat more, or eat less for sure. But let’s take a scenario that I’ve seen so often with patients that at 9pm. They’ve eaten all that they want to eat, they’re trying to be good. And they’re on their sofa watching television, and they suddenly get this craving. Ah, I really want some ice cream. I want some sugar, I want some sweets. And I realize it’s not about knowledge. That’s right. It’s not about information. They know already that ice cream at 9pm in front of the sofa is probably not going to be helping them. The question isn’t what they’re eating, it’s why are they eating it? So I created this little exercise that I call the freedom exercise or the three F’s feel, feed and find these are those three F’s. And so what I have people do and anyone listening to this can use this exercise to help them with a sugar craving and ice cream craving. They can also do it with a social media craving or a alcohol craving right? is, let’s say you’re sitting on the sofa and you have that urge to have ice cream. Okay, just take a quick pause and go to the first F. What is it? I’m really feeling here? Am I hungry? You know, Is it physical hunger? Or is it emotional hunger? Am I lonely? Have I had a Rao with my partner? Has the kids bedtime taking too long, and I’m just trying to get something for me, and then go ahead and have it. This is not about beating people up. It’s about saying I want to help you become more aware. So the first time they do it, it’s like, oh, I’m actually just feeling really stressed at the moment because in my life. That’s why I’m turning to ice cream. Okay, great. Next time it happens. Do the first half again but then go to the second half. The limit.

Dr. Mindy  

Can I say one thing that because my now my hormone hormonal lens kicks in. And I think really what you want is dopamine. Yeah. So but there’s a lot of ways to get dopamine. So if you’re sitting on the couch, and you’re like, oh my gosh, I am not looking forward to tomorrow life has been stressful today you’re searching for a neuro chemical is what you’re searching for. Exactly. So you you only know it in food, but you can Yeah, another thing

Rangan Chatterjee  

and that’s what the second half comes in. The second half is is feed. Okay, so the first one is fear. What am I feeling? The second half is feed. Okay, now that I know I’m stressed and wasn’t really hungry. It’s like how does ice cream feed that emotion? Oh, Ice Cream helps me feel less stressed. Okay, but that’s why I’m going to okay fine. Then if you want to have it go ahead and habits. But then you want to really get to that third F which is fine. Okay, so the first one is feel so I know that I’m feeling stressed. I scream or chill OKlets helps me feel less stressed now can I find that’s a third of can I find an alternative behavior, that’s going to feed the feeling. And that’s exactly what you’re talking about. So that could be, I’m lonely instead of sugar, I could have a chat with my partner, or I could find one of my friends. I’m feeling as though I’ve not had any time to myself, I’ve just been on Zoom calls all day, okay, instead of having the ice cream, you could run yourself a bath. Why it’s it, you know, it could be that you just need to change your environment, the brain is a very associative organ. So if someone’s struggle with their weight for many years, and they’re used to snacking on the sofa in front of a television, it can be quite hard to break that cycle. Maybe if you have the room in your house, or your apartment, you go to a different room, and suddenly, you don’t feel like having it or maybe you’re just thirsty. And you have a glass of sparkling water. Yep. And that craving is gone. The point I’m trying to make with this, why we section is, I really strongly feel that this is one of the big missing pieces and weight loss. It’s all about what what should we do. But I don’t think there’s many people out there Mindy, who don’t know when they’re trying to lose weight, but too much sugar is not helping them. Right. So

Dr. Mindy  

they just can’t get over. It can’t get over that. So something really interesting. I sort of do that with exercise when I don’t feel like exercising. I have like certain steps that I do. And one of the steps is put your workout clothes on. Yeah, because once I put my work in, I can I can literally go to a place where I’m like, I’m not working out. But I know I need to work out. I’m not working out. Okay, put your workout clothes on and then make a decision. And then I go and put my workout clothes on. And then I’m like, No, I kind of feel like a might work water workout. And then if I, if I’m still hesitant, I’ll go actually, if I go for a run, I’ll say just go for a walk. And I just chunk it down into little steps. And before you know it, you’re off doing the proper health habit. Yeah,

Rangan Chatterjee  

exactly. And again, this goes back to a personalized approach, right? It’s all we can do, in my view on these sort of mediums like a podcast is share possible tools. Yeah. But people have to understand that not every tool is for everyone. Right? Right. And I need to find what tool there is the right tool for me. That’s right, you know. So that’s how I think about weight loss, or, frankly, any medical problem as I’m trying to look at someone’s life and go what are the inputs here. And my very first book a few years ago was on the four pillars of health in America, it was called How to Make disease disappear. And where the I think that framework I outlined in that book still applies. You know, the book was six or seven years old now still applies today, which is this four pillars of health, which have a huge impacts on how you feel your weight, your mood, but also four pillars that we have a pretty high degree of control over its food, movement, sleep, and stress. So you can look at those four pillars and put them through the lens of weight loss and go okay, just to make this really simple, hey, I’m trying to lose weight. I’ve struggled in the past, right? I feel like I tried everything. Let’s go round these four pillars in my own life and to figure out which one needs addressing I love that, you know, so we talked a little bit about stress. Right? Right. We could go deep into stress, but that’s a little bit about stress. We talked a little bit about sleep and how sometimes and there’s a lot of case studies I put on my books on women patients of mine. He lost weight just by getting their sleep diet.

Dr. Mindy  

Oh, yeah, I believe it sleep you burn fat when you sleep and that is hard fat,

Rangan Chatterjee  

you burn fat. You eat less the next day, your willpower is better, right? There’s all kinds of things. A lot of people know about hormones like leptin and ghrelin, the satiety hormone leptin and the hunger hormone ghrelin. Well, when you haven’t slept, those get flipped the following day. We know that feeling when you haven’t slept. I know this feeling. I’ve had this many times. You always feel hungry and you never feel full. That’s because ghrelin and leptin have flipped. Yes. So I acknowledge that some people find it hard to sleep, right. I acknowledge that some women in their 40s You know, for a variety reasons, maybe hormonal changes, maybe pressures in life, young children, elderly parents or household that you’re trying to run. I get it can be difficult, but I think it’s really empowering sometimes to let a patient know hey, listen, I can see that you’ve tried so many different things. But one thing I don’t think he had tried is addressing your sleep. Why don’t we ease up on the diet at the moment, right? Just relax a little bit there. What if the next month we start helping you focus on sleep? Yeah. What are the small changes I can help you with here? And before you know it if someone can sleep even 20 Min. It’s more a night. Like if you go from five hours, 14 minutes a night to six hours a night. Sure it’s not seven hours. It’s not seven and a half hours. But it’s better than it was, yeah,

Dr. Mindy  

you’re moving in the right direction in the right direction, you

Rangan Chatterjee  

have more energy, you’re suddenly you’ve got a bit more energy to cook for yourself. You’re not quite as tempted when you go to the coffee shop in the morning to pick up that pastry. You think no, no, I’m not going to have that. It’s like a ripple effect. Yeah. And so I love this four pillar approach, because I think you can apply it to anything depression, anxiety, gives you control gives you control. Yeah, then i The tip I often say to people is look at those four pillars. And ask yourself which pillar? Do you need the most work in? Because I think a lot of us we’d like to go to our favorite pillar. Yeah. are the ones easy as the one that’s easier? Yeah. Right. And I understand that. And sure, you know, I’ve got nothing inherently against that. But I have found in over two decades now we’re seeing 10s of 1000s of patients, that generally speaking for most people, if we try and go to our weakest pillar, and bring that up, actually, we make so much more impacts on our health, just because some people I thought, I’ve got a pretty good diet, right? Yeah. Let’s say it’s a 90% good diet, and they’re stressing out over a little bit of sugar they have on a Sunday. And I’m like, Yeah, but you know what, I think your diet is pretty good. I think it’s much better for you to address the fact that you’re only sleeping five hours a night and let that but as sugar on a Sunday, Go, just go. It’s okay. Yeah, but let’s work on sleep. But often people want to neglect the sleep and go, How can I make my diet? Even better? I’m gonna get it to 95%.

Dr. Mindy  

Yeah, yeah, it’s interesting, you say that. So I have a new theory that I actually, it’s been percolating, in my mind, I haven’t, I haven’t bounced off anybody. So you’re the perfect person to bounce it off. I think one thing we don’t talk about enough in with food and weight loss is the environment in which you’re putting yourself in when you eat. So I’ll give you an example. A patient I’ve been working with recently has a history of eating disorders. And so we’ve been trying to bring back a little more of, you know, a love for food to not have her fear food. And so she was telling me, Oh, I’ve got family in town, and I’m not able to follow the right macros, and I can’t, can’t get my blood sugar, right. And I said, this is what I want you to do. You’re with family, you I want you to sit with your family, I want you to eat good quality food. And I want you just to enjoy that experience without any negative thought going through because you what’s happening hormonally is oxytocin is going up. And when oxytocin goes up, cortisol goes down. And when cortisol goes down, you’re more insulin sensitive. So now that food that high carb food that you’re eating right now in the love and support of the family, that you care about, is going to have a different impact on your hormonally than if you take that same meal. And you sit at your countertop and you will fit down while you’re looking at Instagram.

Rangan Chatterjee  

Yeah, I love that. And I think it’s spot on. I remember a few years ago, when I was writing my book on weight loss, I remember reading a study sharing that basically, you can eat the same foods in a high stress states. And you’ll put on more weight from them than if you eat them in low stress. Yes. And again, let’s think about this. Let’s take a step back. How are we designed to eat with designed really to eat in a relaxed state? Yeah, with with community with community and people around us, you know, let’s say it was at that at the end of the day after our hunts, right? We’re all relaxed with bonding was sharing the food that’s been either caught at the hunt or has been gathered the tubers writes in that sort of relaxed state. And I think one of the problems these days is that we’re so stressed, we’re eating healthy food in a stressed out states. And I really think it has a negative impact on us or we don’t get as many of the benefits. As we might have done. There was one study from I think the University of Birmingham that’s published a few years ago that showed that if you’re eating let’s say, you eat your lunch, and you’re distracted, right? So you’re also doing emails at the same time whilst eating your healthy foods. Because you’re distracted at that meal, you eat more of every other meal for that day. And I thought, it’s really crazy, but it made me think the whole human body is interconnected. And I think far too often we’re trying to separate out into what’s the right food for weight loss, what’s the right exercise for weight loss, and I understand why people want to know these things. But we kind of have to understand that everything works together. Like if you eat in a more mindful space at lunchtime, if you can shut your computer and pay attention and not be in a rush. Well, you can eat less for the rest of the day naturally without you even trying. And often think about the French paradox Monday, you know, this idea that why is it that in, in France, supposedly, that they have lower rates of heart disease, given how much fats given how much cheese how much red wine they have? Yes. And there’s a number of theories, my theory, I think, you know, the quality of the food they’re eating absolutely plays a huge role. Because I think generally in France, there’s still a very strong food culture about eating the right foods, proper foods that we’ve grown our way and cooked yet. But I think it’s also how they eat. So still, to this day in France, there is very much a let’s stop and eat culture for lunch. I remember this, because a few years ago, it was actually when my first book came out in France, I was being interviewed by a French journalist. And I can ask you a question. Do you guys still have this culture where you stop for lunch and dinner, like you’re not also working or doing emails, she goes, absolutely. In France, we still start, Mealtimes are sacrosanct, you don’t work at the same time you sit at a table is properly prepared you eat, she said, to me, the only places where that’s going now in France, is in some of the international offices in Paris, where they’re, you know, the multi national companies have come in, and people are now working through their lunch break. And then I think about these studies, and I think, wow, if you’re in France, and you’re eating in a relaxed state, you’re not trying to do a million things at the same time, you’re going to digest your food better, you’re going to process your food better, you’re going to stop eating probably when you’re full, rather than cramming it in and going beyond fall. Yep. And so this all circles back to your first question, why do we struggle? Well, I think the reason we struggle is because we’re only looking at one or two areas, when there’s seven or eight, or even nine or 10 areas we could be looking at. And yeah, it’s not that every area is relevant for all of us. Someone may be listening to this Monday, and they’ve already watched your YouTube videos and gone to a whole food diet. Right? They may be eating already real food, and practicing some of your fasting recommendations. And they may still be struggling. Or maybe it’s not food at this moment in time. Maybe they’ve addressed the food pillar really nicely. Maybe it’s stress. Yeah, maybe it’s sleep. Yep.

Dr. Mindy  

We see this all the time. Because I would say coming out the gates when people first study fasting, 80% of them apply it, and they do really well. And then there’s this 20% that are like I’m doing everything and I believe them. They’re like I’m doing everything. I don’t know why I’m not losing weight. And that’s when you have to bring in these other factors. And I think that the challenge we have is that we’ve made food or weight loss really about calories in calories out, like you got to move more, eat less kind of, kind of mentality. And that sticks us every single time. So one question, you said, I really want to highlight this because this is one that I’ve been really deep and thinking about. And it it plays out in the French example that you just gave. Where does alcohol fit into all of this, because I’ll tell you something really interesting. When I have a CGM on, and I drink a glass of wine with my meal, I actually see less of a glucose spike. And I’m not saying that I should have a glass of wine with everything. But what I think it’s doing is relaxing me. And so and maybe I need to put myself in a more relaxed state before I do that without the glass of wine. But there is something that it does and the French do this right over a long meal. Yeah, I mean wine and bread and cheese. This

Rangan Chatterjee  

is so interesting. I’m so passionate about this. It reminds me also of when I used to drink now I don’t really drink alcohol anymore. I don’t think I’ve had an alcoholic drink for over four years now. And I didn’t have a problem with it. It’s not that I have any moral problem with people who who choose to drink. It’s just I got to the stage of my life where I thought I just don’t need this anymore. It’s not serving me anymore. Like I I don’t like the way I feel whether I don’t like the impact it has on my sleep. But when I did used to drink. What was really interesting is I notice if I had a glass of red wine, let’s say in the middle of my working week in the evening, I wouldn’t sleep particularly well. I’d have a headache the next morning, but the same glass on holiday. If I was on vacation with my family. It did nothing. I didn’t feel anything. I slept really well. I thought wow, that’s really really interesting. The state in which your n when you consume something makes a difference. And of course, when I say it like that it’s quite intuitive and quite obvious. Yeah. But I don’t think we think about it, we think that one unit or two units of alcohol will have the same impact on us, no matter when or how we’re having it. And I don’t think that’s the case. The other thing I think we need to really be thinking about is like, what is the stress load in our lives? So I was trying to explain, Well, why is it it gives me a hangover, in my home life, but not when I’m on holiday. And I also think it might have to do with stress load. So in your home life, where you’re working, and you’re managing the kids after school clubs, and, you know, you’re you’re getting closer and closer to what I call your stress threshold. Right? So maybe that glass of alcohol is tipping you over and you’re feeling the effects. But let’s say on a holiday, you don’t have emails to answer you don’t have your work to do or whatever it might be. You have a lot of headroom and resilience. Yeah. So I think that’s one thing we need to think about what alcohol specifically around weight loss. Okay, where does alcohol fit in? I don’t think it’s helpful for most people. Yeah, right. It is full of calories. You know, it helps put on liver fat, which is super not helpful for for our overall health, our metabolic health. But I also understand that some people do like to consume alcohol, it’s maybe a way that they wind down their day, maybe it’s something they do to connect them with other people. And so I’m always trying to give practical advice, because there’s optimism. And then there’s real life. Right, right. And some people, they can hear things on alcohol, but they’re gonna go no, but I that’s how I finish off on a Friday, my week, I have a glass of beer or a glass of wine. So I want to be totally transparent. I don’t think it’s helpful for most people. But I also do recognize that if we look at some of these long living populations around the world, like the blue zones, for example, which is getting a lot of press at the moment, because of the Netflix series rights, we have to also acknowledge that some of these long living populations do have a glass of red wine, mostly evening, every night, and are seemingly able to tolerate it, and they’re still living to 100 in really good health. So what’s going on there, because we can say that there’s no biological benefits to alcohol. And I probably agree with that, right. But for some people, it’s part of their culture, it’s the way that they bond. And I think what happens in some of these blue zones, is that they’re getting everything else, right. They’re eating natural foods. It’s local, it’s seasonal, they’re moving their bodies each day, they have a strong sense of community, they have low levels of stress, people aren’t left isolated by themselves, you know, whole community comes together, elderly people are living in extended families. And so I think if you look at alcohol through the stress lens, I think it teaches us quite a lot if your stress load is low. One, I’m not saying there’s a benefit to drinking alcohol, but you might be able to tolerate it. Right? Right, your stress load is high, it may well be tipping you over. The other thing, I think where alcohol becomes really problematic for weight loss is to deal with its impacts on sleep. Oh, yeah, we’ve all got our unique threshold. But for some people, even half a glass of red wine will tank, your REM sleep, which is a very important phase of deep sleep. REM sleep is also caught by a lot of sleep researchers emotional first aid, right? So it’s how we deal with our emotions, we process memories, we take the sting off difficult experiences and lay them down in a more, you know, a less triggering fashion. Right? Which is why I think for people who are suffering with their mental health, I think alcohol can be really problematic because you lose REM sleep. Yeah. The other thing alcohol does is it fragments our sleep. So often people don’t even realize that they’re getting up multiple times in the night. Sometimes they do, but sometimes they don’t. They think they slept well. And then they’re thinking, Well, why am I so tired today? So I think yes, a lot of alcoholic drinks have too many calories in too much sugar in which is not going to help you if you’re trying to lose weights. But I also think that alcohol has impacts on our sleep is highly problematic. And for some people, it’s going to really get in the way of their weight loss. And so for that person who still wants to have a drink, what I would say to them is look, I think it’s better for you to try not to if you can, but if you really do want to have that try and have as little as you can, right let’s say you’re used to having three glasses of wine start to take care of just one glass, but also have it earlier in the evening. So if you were to have a let’s say you finish work at five and again, I need to be careful how I say this. I’m not recommending

Dr. Mindy  

right I can feel the breath and people’s brain going oh, okay, wait, this is

Rangan Chatterjee  

well Hey, let me let me put it this way, a 5pm glass of red wine is going to have less impact on your sleep that at 10:30pm glass of red wine that you have in front of the television. Exactly, because you will have, metabolize and process some of that wine by the time you go to sleep. So if you are going to have it earliest, probably better. Yeah, as long as that earlier, glass doesn’t turn into the whole bottle.

Dr. Mindy  

And then also to your point earlier, if you get poor sleep, now you’re gonna eat more calories the next day. So it sets them up for the vicious cycle that they say they all they’re like puzzle pieces, all of these, everybody has to find their own

Rangan Chatterjee  

submission cycle, not with just foods, but you’re more tired than it say. So what do you do you drink more caffeine, right? Right, you have more caffeine. And you have caffeine the later on in the day, because by the time it gets to three or 3:30pm, because you had a bad night’s sleep, because you were drinking alcohol the night before, you need more sugar, you need more caffeine to get you going. So that then has a negative impact on your sleep on the subsequent night. And because you’re wired when you come home from work, because you’ve had all this caffeine, you may then feel the need to have some more alcohol to bring you down caffeine to bring you up in the morning, out because when you’re down. And so for some people, alcohol is going to sabotage their efforts to lose weight. And you will have seen like I have many patients who do everything else, but they won’t change alcohol. I

Dr. Mindy  

think I think that’s the most shocking thing to me and helping so many people lose weight is that they I really truly believe there are people out there trying so hard. And they’re not losing weight. But they’re missing pieces like what we’re discussing right now. And that’s what I’m trying to free people because then we start getting, we think it’s our fault. We you know, think we’re undisciplined but these little pieces like the alcohol caffeine thing is really interesting, because you’re absolutely right. So you alcohol to wind down and you caffeine to wind up and they kind of are to not connected.

Rangan Chatterjee  

Yeah, you know, the key thing I want people who are struggling to lose weight to know is first of all, listen, I honestly don’t think it’s your fault. Yeah, I agree. Right? It is really, really tough in this food environment. To not put weight on? Yep, you’re surrounded by food. Everyone not just and it’s not good quality food is surrounded by it is food that in my book I call Blissey foods, these foods that have been specifically engineered to raise dopamine. Right? So they’re specifically engineered to where you cannot resist them. You know, there’s a make of what we would call crisps. Or you guys would call potato chips in the UK when the answer is once you pop you can’t stop. It’s true. Yeah. Once you pop, you can’t stop because it’s been engineered that way.

Dr. Mindy  

Do you know that about gosh, it was like 20 years ago, I saw an article in the LA Times. It was like a four page article about how the potato chip companies actually sit around. There’s a there’s a conference room where they sit around and they go, Okay, what makes the potato chip addictive. And they’re like, it’s it’s sweet. And it’s a little salty, it’s light, like they break it all down to make it so that you want to have more. And so they literally spray on top of it a chemical that makes you want to have it more

Rangan Chatterjee  

Yeah. And I think they even go further. And they maybe try two or 300 flavors out. And they do scans and see you know, which which spikes these chemicals in your brain the most. Right? What’s the bliss point. So it’s not that you’re weak, right? It’s not that you have no willpower. These foods are incredibly difficult to resist. We know that when we take native communities or hunter gatherer tribes or we take people and bring them into more urban environments, they’re fine in their native environment, they all put on weights when they come into the modern food environment. So one of my top tips for people around that, which again, recently, I put it out on my Instagram, and it seems to trigger a few people, which I found about well, I can explain why I think it is. I say don’t exercise willpower in your house. So basically, if you don’t want to eat it, don’t bring it into your house.

Dr. Mindy  

That’s totally my go to all the time because you’re

Rangan Chatterjee  

making a half use exercise willpower. As soon as you step out your front door, you want to fill up petrol or gas, you’re starting to pay. You’re surrounded by all the cookies and the sweets and the potato chips, right. Everywhere you go. You’re trying to go to the coffee shop here in the UK trying to buy a coffee, you’re going to one of the chains and you’ll be offered a nice panel shockula Or a pastry right. And if you haven’t sat well you’re going to find it hard to resist. So you’re gonna have to use willpower when you’re out of your house. I say don’t use it up at home. So for many years, I have a rule of I don’t want to eat it. I don’t bring it in the house. And I was home alone with my kids there. Last weekend, my wife was away. And I remember on Saturday evening once I put the kids to bed, I was craving something sweet, right? I really wanted something I thought, you know, our kids are in bed for why so I feel like something sweet. I looked in my cupboard. There’s nuts. There’s always as avocados. I’m like, There’s nothing sweet. Yeah, you know what? I didn’t end up having anything sweet.

Dr. Mindy  

Oh my god. That’s

Rangan Chatterjee  

just because I know this stuff. Just because I’ve written a load of books on this app. It doesn’t mean I’m any less human than anyone else. I’m as tempted as anyone elses. So I take precautions. I’ve got to tell you, that’s a tip I’ve been using with patients for over 10 years. And most people love it. Now, when I posted this on Instagram recently. Some people were saying, this is the wrong advice, right? We need to be able to get to the point where we’re so in tune with our bodies, that we can have the cookies and the biscuits and the chips at home and tap into ourselves and be intuitive and not eat them. And in my head. I’m like, You know what? Hey, I’ve got no problem if you can get to that state. Great. Knock yourself out. Right? I’ve got to tell you, I’m not at that stage. Right? Most of my patients are not. So in the meantime, before you get to that enlightened state where you can do that. Yeah. Um, like a little helpful tip is just don’t bring it out of the house.

Dr. Mindy  

I’m the same way I can if it’s in the house, and it’s eight o’clock at night. It starts calling my name I sometimes can’t resist it. So getting it out.

Rangan Chatterjee  

No fight. I scream I would demolish the whole time. Yeah, yeah. So I don’t bring it in. Yeah. So it’s a very simple set. The other tip around food I love to share with people. Because I’ve seen it transformative. For many patients awesome. myself not so much for weight loss with myself because I’m, I’m very lucky in the sense that weight hasn’t been something I’ve struggled with in my life. Although, although people would look at me go you’re you’re tall and lean. You know, if I’m not eating well, for a while, I can put on a little bit of weight around, I can sit on my face and feel goods. This is a tip that for somebody that’s counterintuitive, but I think it really helps. And it’s eat your dinner for breakfast, ah, flip it, totally flip it. And I can so remember this 44 Your chap, I think, who came in to see me. He wasn’t like rarely overweights. But he was struggling a bit and he was carrying a bit of excess weight. He tried things to change it. So he took I don’t quite know what I’m doing. And I sort of went through his day. And he would start off his day with a sugary granola. Now he thought it was healthy was a healthy cereal that had some sort of marketing messages on the outside and asked him to bring it in. I said, Look, there’s so much sugar in this right and what’s happening when you have that first thing in the morning, I get the you’re trying to have something healthy that you’ve been told is healthy. The problem is, is that you’re going to have a blood sugar spike after you eat this. And two to three hours later, your blood sugar is going to rapidly start to fall. And you may well at that point, lose your focus, lose your energy and feel sometimes quite anxious, because that’s a stress sign to the body blood sugar falling rapidly. And he said, Yeah, that’s funny, because mid morning, I do feel really hungry. I feel quite lightheaded. And I get a bit cranky till I’ve had some foods. And this chap was vegetarian. He wanted to stay vegetarian. So the other things in his life that I looked at, but he would always make himself a really nice evening meal. And I remember like one thing he loves having in the evening was salmon and goat’s cheese and roasted vegetables. Sounds amazing. And I said, Okay, could you make extra in the evening, put some in the fridge and have that for your breakfast as well. And he’s like, Yeah, never even thought of that. I said, just try it for a week and see what happens. That one change, honestly changed everything about this guy slide the first time he did that he had that before he went off to work in the morning. And he said, I didn’t feel hungry till 2pm Normally at 1030 I’m hungry, lunchtime. I can’t wait to go and have something. My focus was the best that has ever been at work. I felt high levels of energy, and he naturally ate less and I think people don’t realize that their first meal is often sabotaging them. Yes, they’re often having dessert for breakfast. You know, unfortunately, even a lot of these so called Healthy cereals are just desserts.

Dr. Mindy  

Well, oatmeal. I’m shocked at how many people have oatmeal for breakfast and I don’t find I can’t see it. Maybe if you add some protein to oatmeal, but it’s still a blood sugar spike and then that’s for

Rangan Chatterjee  

most people and look, some people will say that oatmeal really helps them in the morning and they don’t feel hungry. And I’ve seen enough money to go okay, I believe that for some people. It could be their microbiome, their heritage, whatever it might be me Be with steel cut oats. Maybe they’re okay, like an instant oatmeal. Yeah, I think more people than not are getting sugar spikes from these foods. And so simply flipping I love dinner for breakfast. I think it’s huge for people, I certainly don’t think in terms of more tips, I would say, try not to eat two to three hours before bed. If you can upgrade, yo, it’s hard. Sometimes, you might want to finish your work and come and relax. When you come home. I do get that I personally don’t use a sleep tracker anymore. I did for a period of time. And one of the key I felt with the aura ring that I learned all I needed to learn within a few weeks. You saw your habits. Yeah. So I figured this out. I’d leave for a few months. Put it on again, again. Okay, I get what this is teaching me. Yeah. And I guess everyone’s different. We’ve all got to find what works for us. But for me, one of the key learnings was if I eat within two, or even three hours of bed, I don’t have as good a night’s sleep. Yeah. We think about what we said before where food digesting food is very heavy on the body. Yeah, right. It’s a very labor intensive process. Yeah, it kind of makes sense. If you give yourself two, three hours where you’re awake, where your body’s done a lot of the heavy lifting, you can have, you know, a more relaxing sleep. So I think that can be really beneficial.

Dr. Mindy  

Yeah, and and I absolutely agree, I tried to eat much earlier. In fact, I’ve been in you and I talked about this, I’ve been really trying to eat my biggest meal in either like around noon, and then eat lighter as the day goes, like I’ll have like a light meal. But you know, as the sun is setting, because it’s been summer. So I think the timing of those.

Rangan Chatterjee  

I think that’s better, because there’s a lot of research and there was a Spanish study that I think maybe three years ago came out that they basically split people into two groups, and they had the same foods the same number of calories. But one group had the majority of those calories in the first half of the day. So I think they finished at 3pm with the main bulk of their calories. So only a very, very light dinner. And the other group had it flipped where they had the most of their calories in the second half of the day. And there was a significant difference in weight loss. So people basically who front loaded their foods did much, much better. The ones with a lighter day, and there was more fat loss, more weight loss, better blood sugar control. But again, I want to highlight something that I said earlier Monday, which is we can see these studies. And think that’s fact and that applies to me. Yeah, well, well, and it isn’t. It’s like that works for that group of people. Yeah, you may go. You know, we know that connection is important for our health. We know, as you’d mentioned, if we were eating in a relaxed state around loved ones, were more present, were more mindful is going to have you know, we’re going to process and digest that food better. Maybe it’s going to help us put on less weight. Yes. Well, if you’re in a family where you all like to sit around and have a meal together in the evening, because you’re all out, you know, your kids are at school or college and your partner’s out of work, you’re out of work. Okay, well, maybe that approach is not going to be the right approach for you. Right? Maybe you can move some of these

Dr. Mindy  

other levers. Yeah, there’s a lot of levers to move a lot of

Rangan Chatterjee  

levers that you don’t actually want. One thing I’ve learned many is you don’t have to actually pull on every lever, no, you just need to pull on enough. And that starts to shift the balance for you.

Dr. Mindy  

My one of my favorite quotes is you don’t need motivation. You need momentum. Yeah. And that’s exactly what we’re talking about is just what’s going to get you momentum so that you start to increase your motivation to do more and more good health habits.

Rangan Chatterjee  

And that’s why I personally believe that starting small, Yeah, agreed is better for most people. Like, in my experience, I found that some people can, overnight transform their entire life. But generally speaking, from what I’ve seen, it happens when you’ve had a significant life stressor, bereavement, you’ve lost your job, you just split up with a long term partner. Yeah, you know what, in those cases I have seen overnight, you can change everything. Yep. But if you haven’t had that, in my experience, most people are better off starting small because otherwise what happens you end up in the classic New Year’s scenario, which we see every January, people wake up on New Year’s Day. And they think, right, this year is going to be different. This is the year every year, you know, somehow miraculously, I’m going to be different this year. I’m gonna I’m gonna use even more motivation and willpower this year. I’m gonna go spinning four times a week for two weeks up all year. And they do it for two weeks, and they’re feeling good. And then what happens life gets in the way. Right? Work is busy, you had a bad day at work, you come back and you think I can’t be bothered going to the gym. Right? So you have this with a yo yo type of approach to health whereas if you start small, it becomes sustainable and it leads to what I call the ripple effect. So one thing I spoke In about three years, and probably one of my Cornerstone habits that I’ve been doing for maybe four years now, is I have a five minute strength workouts every single morning. Oh, I love that. Right. So look like what it looks like. So as part of my morning routine, one of the things I do is have a workout. So I come down in the morning in my pajamas, I live in a house, so I come downstairs. Now for me personally, the first thing I do is I meditate for 10 minutes, because that’s because I’ve learned that I’m a better human being. When I do that. Well, that’s a part of that. So the cipher minutes, the strength workouts, what happens? Well, one of the things I do is make myself coffee. So in my pajamas, and you’ve, you’ve been in my house, you’ve seen how particular I am, I weigh out coffee, your coffee, you make your Yeah, and I time it for five minutes, because that’s how long I like it to brew. In those five minutes. I didn’t go on Instagram, I didn’t go my email. I didn’t look at the news. I have a workout. In my pajamas. It used to be bodyweight. Now I have a kettlebell and a dumbbell kicking around why? Because it means instead of me having to find a dedicated one hour to go and visit a gym, nothing against that, if you like doing that, and you’ve got time for that. But it basically means every morning without fail, I have a five minute strength workouts and I rarely missed a day and four Yes, brilliant. Why have I rarely missed a day? It’s not because I’ve got more motivation than anyone else is? Because there’s two big rules of behavior change that I think people don’t follow, which is what trips them up. Rule number one, you got to make it easy. Yeah. Why do you need to make it easy? You need to make it easy, because willpower never lasts. Yeah, right? January, the first willpower is through the roof. So we think I’m gonna go spinning one hour, four times a week. Right? Great, you do that when your willpower is high. But when your willpower falls, as it always does, right? That’s the key point, as it always does, you will never do something if it’s hard. So rule number one make it easy. It’s a five minute workout, it’s not half an hour, it’s not an hour, it’s five minutes, which means I can rarely say I don’t have time for five minutes. Rule number two is where are you going to put that behavior? Well, from the research, we know, the very best place to put any new behavior, if you want to turn into a long term habits, is to stick it onto an existing habit. So what’s an existing habit? It’s a behavior you’re doing without thinking about it. I don’t really need any motivation to make my morning coffee or you know, right, it’s happening. So if I stick on the behavior onto my coffee habit, the workout happens every day, because I drink coffee every day. And so I’ve learned this what I always try and teach patients or on my podcast or on my YouTube channel, I try and show people that find your equivalent off. That’s right. Why do we do it in my pajamas? Well, I’ve made it so easy to put my workout gear on, you don’t have to get changed to have a workout,

Dr. Mindy  

somebody could get down and do push ups, they could do tricep dips, squats, like you don’t even have to have kettlebells, or you

Rangan Chatterjee  

don’t have anything. And actually that’s another point here, which I think is really relevant for people, which is our environment influences our behavior so much more than we think. So we can, we can look at that in a macro way and look at society and go, okay, the food environment for many versus toxic now we’re surrounded by high energy calorie dense foods that are very hard to resist. That’s why as a population, we’re really struggling to lose weight, or that’s one of the reasons why it’s so the environment is influencing our behavior. But let’s look at that on a individual level inside our own houses. I have a dumbbell and a kettlebell in my kitchen. So what does that mean? In the morning, when I go into my kitchen, I’m being visually triggered and reminded that I could pick that thing up. And I’ll be honest, a few years ago, I was chatting to my wife and she said, Hey, baby, you got to keep this stuff in the kitchen. And I remember saying, Hey, listen, the problem is if I put that in the garbage, or I put it in the cupboard, I’m probably never going to pick it up. Yep. Right. But by having it there every day, not only do I have this sort of five minute thing that I’ve made a habit. I’m being visually triggered. So my environment is encouraging me to pick that thing up.

Dr. Mindy  

Yes. So it’s the same. And we’re back at this environment, because this is sort of a through line that I’m really seeing right now with people in their health is that they’re trying to change their health in the wrong environment. And so why don’t we start with the environment first, like like what you said, like I’m saying, Where are you eating? Let’s let’s change that environment. What I just heard what you’re saying is, when I work out, how do I change the environment where I work out in? How do I make it so ridiculously easy for me? And I think this is like a conversation that is not being hard.

Rangan Chatterjee  

Yeah. And what that small habit It does is it builds self esteem and confidence. Yes. Right. If you want to go on this weight loss journey in a world that’s encouraging you to put on weight and be fat, let’s be honest, right? You need to build it your self esteem because it’s going to be hard. Yeah. And I think a lot of the time, we feel so negative about ourselves, we feel that we were weak, oh, I crumbled, I had the ice cream, I’m such a failure. And then the next day, we kind of almost drown or eat away our emotions and our sorrows because we feel so bad, which yes becomes problematic when you make one small promise to yourself every day, and you keep it. So for me, it’s my five minute workout, I keep that promise to myself. I send my body in my mind, one of the most powerful signals out there, which is I can rely on myself, Oh, I love that. I don’t say stuff on I don’t keep my word. If you say I’m going to transform my sleep environment, I’m going to get at the gym four times a week, I’m going to eat three home cooked meals a day. You know what good luck if you can do that. Amazing. Yeah. But if you fail, which most of us do, you’re actually then in some ways, you’re sending a signal to your body that I can’t stick to anything. Yes. And that’s why I love starting small. So by the by virtue of the fact that I haven’t missed a day. And even on the busiest day, let’s say I skipped the meditation, I still do my five minute workout. So I send myself I give myself the most powerful form of evidence that exists, which is real life lived experience. Yes, I can depend on myself. And I think anyone who’s trying to lose weight, find one Keystone Habits, make it small, stick it onto an existing behavior. And an existing habit, sorry, and make yourself a promise. So I’m going to do this every day.

Dr. Mindy  

Yeah. You know, it’s so interesting, because I get a lot of people who, who will say to me, like out in public or on DMS on socials, and they’ll say, Oh, my God, you changed my life. I lost all this weight because of you. And I’m like, no, no, no, I don’t get any of that credit. The only you could stop you from putting food in your mouth. And in that moment, you need to look yourself in the mirror. And thank you, to your point. Because if you stop putting food in your mouth, and you got a result, or you decide to do the five minute workout, and you’re starting to see a change, you literally have to look at yourself in the mirror and go, Okay, I can only thank me. And then that’s the beginning of taking this health power back.

Rangan Chatterjee  

Yeah. And I just want to also address because I think that’s a really, really great points, because people are doing it right there may be using your podcasts or my podcast to get information, but they’re the ones who have to change. Yeah, right. They’re doing it. And if anyone’s thinking, Well, how much is a five minute workout really going to do? Right? Let’s address that head on. It’s not so much about the calories burnt, right? It’s not so much about what that’s going to do for your physique. Although these things are very relevant. It’s something in my view, that’s much more powerful than that. It’s that confidence we have in ourselves is that trust we have in ourselves, most people are struggling with their health, whether it be weight loss or anything else. In my experience, they’ve lost confidence. Yes, that yeah, beat up themselves, they talk negatively about themselves. And that’s why Yeah, you can buy any diet book you once, right. And if you stick to it for three weeks, you’re probably going to lose weight, probably. But most people are not looking for dropping a dress size in two weeks. Most people are looking for sustainable change, where they start to lose the excess weight for good when they’ve got more energy, more vitality, where this becomes sustainable and a new lifestyle. Yeah. And and I very much relate that five minute kitchen workouts. To toothbrushing for people.

Dr. Mindy  

Yeah, it’s that’s what it actually reminded me. Yeah, nobody says this

Rangan Chatterjee  

Monday. No one says I don’t think at least my dental hygiene is in poor sense, right. But you know, Monday was a busy day at work. You know, I’m going to skip it today. Oh, choose that at a time. You know what, I’m going to miss it in the week. But on Sunday, I’m going in for a deep one hour clean. No one says that. But we intuitively understand that a little bit every day means you look after your teeth for life. And I’m not saying that five minute kitchen workout is in place of a longer workout twice a week or going to the gym or going on your exercise bike or whatever it might be. For me, it’s the same as tooth brushing. I brush my teeth every day. I do a five minute strength workout every day. Now if on one day I’ve got more time. I can go for a 90 minute walk or a run or the gym. Great right but it’s not instead of that, yeah. And that’s why I do every day.

Dr. Mindy  

I actually see next book for you. Are they going to be the five? Five Minute kitchen workout? Five Minute kitchen? I think yeah, there’s a lot to say there. Okay, total total. Other topic on weight loss. That’s pretty popular right now. And I’d be curious, your medical opinion on this is all of the weight loss drugs that everybody is tapping into ozempic? A few of the other ones. I mean, people are getting incredible results. What do you what are your thoughts on that?

Rangan Chatterjee  

So listen, first thing I want to acknowledge is I don’t feel that I’m an expert in the weight loss drugs. Okay. So I want to acknowledge that, first of all, from what I’ve seen, and from what I’ve heard, some of the weight loss that’s coming from these weight loss drugs, quite a large proportion is coming from muscle. I’ve heard that too, right? Yeah. Instead of fat. And when we talk about weight loss, I think we need to be really clear, most people are looking to lose fat, right? It’s not just the weight on the scale. People are ideally trying to lose visceral fat, that dangerous, harmful type of fat that surrounds our organs. And they’re trying to put on muscle, right? What we don’t really want is a situation where we’re losing weight on the scales, but we’re losing a lot of lean muscle, because lean muscle is so important for insulin to glucose disposal for our aging, as you’ve spoken about on my podcast, very important for estrogen. Yeah, right. So I always want to say, Listen, my bias, and I think we all have biases that sometimes we don’t acknowledge my bias is that I would prefer it if we could help people lose weight without the need for pharmaceutical medications. That’s a true high bias. Yeah. And having, I would say successfully been doing this for over two decades. I genuinely feel that we can help most people do that. I acknowledged that it can be difficult, more difficult for some than others. But I think we have all kinds of tools like CGM is now which you wear Sometimes i wear once every three months or so for two weeks. It can be incredibly

Dr. Mindy  

IRA, I actually think the CGM, we would we could totally change the metabolic health of the world.

Rangan Chatterjee  

So I completely agree, I will go this far, I don’t think in two decades of practice, I have seen any tool be as transformative for helping an individual change their behavior as a CGM, a continuous glucose monitor, because what that does, and I accept that they can be overused. And I accept that for some people with eating disorders, they can perhaps creates an unhealthy relationship with foods, but that doesn’t mean that no one can benefit from them. Right? Again, these discussions online become very black and white. They’re either all good or all bad. Well, no, for some people, they’re probably not the best tool, right. But for some people, if you have type two diabetes, or metabolic syndrome, or you struggled with your weight, understanding for you, which foods really spike, your blood sugar can be absolutely transformative, change your life again, just to acknowledge some of the other critiques against them. You know, could you not pay attention to anything else? So just eat bacon all day, every day and have a flat blood sugar? Yeah, you could do that. Would that be helpful? Probably not. Yeah. Right. So it’s the way we use these tools that determine whether they’re going to be effective or not. So

Dr. Mindy  

well said. Yeah. And actually, that brings up an interesting point, because I’ve done a lot of research on the carnivore diet versus vegan, you know, we have a lot of plant based versus animal based sort of discussions, and we have a fasting group called the resetter, collaborative on Facebook. And everybody’s always talking about how do you best handle going back into food, and these two things come up. So but one issue that I feel like isn’t being addressed in weight loss, is the microbiome, and what the impact of the microbiome is on your ability to lose weight. So you most likely know the studies that have shown one round of antibiotics actually causes you to start to gain more weight because it has decimated the good and the bad bacteria. So would you say that it is important to make sure that you’re feeding your microbiome to be able to support weight loss journey? Yeah. 100%.

Rangan Chatterjee  

There’s so much supporting evidence here on the relationship between our microbiome and our weights, not only in the ability in which we process, the nutrients that come in how much fat we’re going to absorb. There’s even some studies, which has shown that an FMT of fecal microbiota transplantation. If you are, again, I don’t know how much this has been replicated, but there are certainly individual cases where someone who is severely overweight into their guts is implanted the The feces basically, that microbiome from a thin person. Yep. And that can change your weight. So yeah, there’s so much there that we’re learning, right? Do we know enough for every single person? Probably not. But do we know enough to go? It’s worth supporting the microbiome in all of our patients? Yes, it is. But again, what is supporting them? Yeah, what’s

Dr. Mindy  

your strategy for them? So

Rangan Chatterjee  

I’ve evolved my view on this over the last few years, because one thing, like there’s a popular thing now to, you know, try and have 30 different plant foods a week. Now, it’s not that I’m against that, I think if you can do that, you’re gonna get all kinds of polyphenols, all kinds of prebiotic foods that feed lots of different species of bacteria. The problem is, a lot of people struggle with their guts. A lot of people have got IBS, they’ve got bloating, and as they start to ramp up their, their fiber intake, they feel uncomfortable. They’re struggling to go to the toilet. Now, some people will say, they just need to build up slowly. And I agree, that can be a helpful strategy. But for some people, I’ve tried it, I’ve tried addressing their stress, I’ve helped them build up slowly, they don’t seem to tolerate that level of fiber. And this is where I think the nuance gets lost in conversation. For some people, increasing the amount of fiber to those high levels, is life changing, helps them lose weight, helps them be full more, helps increase the health of their gut microbiome. Through this though, I’ve got some friends. I’ve got some patients who are thriving on a more carnivorous style of diets. And we’ve got to be able to sit with that and go, what’s going on here? Because that is happening. Yeah. And so how do I put all that together? Yeah, I was just gonna say, Well, I say you got to be doing something for your microbiome. So doing something here microbiome means first of all, stopping putting in things that are decimating it. Yeah. Right. And that could be a lot of the ultra processed foods, a lot of the emulsifiers a lot of the artificial ingredients that we know, are affecting our microbiome. You mentioned that study on antibiotics. I think one thing we’re learning now with antibiotics is that we’re all we have different levels of resilience. Some people can have one course of broad spectrum antibiotics after two years, their microbiome hasn’t recovered to the previous pre antibiotic states, where some are seemingly recovering within two weeks without actually doing anything. So again, it’s all highly individual. But I think yes, increase the amount of colorful vegetables in your diet to get that diversity, if you can, yeah. Okay. But if you can’t, there are other options, right? You could just go for prebiotic foods. And there was a study that came out about three months ago, I think, is from Israel, showing that the top prebiotic foods that have the most prebiotic fiber for our gut bugs. I think were leeks, onions, and Jerusalem artichokes as a fourth and fifth, I can’t quite remember these are very fruit. These are very cheap. Yeah, very accessible foods, right. So it’s not that this is, you know, beyond the scope of most people. But if you can’t do that, because some of these prebiotic fibers give people blessing. Okay, what else can you do? Well, you could have live yogurts which have got probiotic bacteria within them. Yeah, that may be an option. You could have kefir. Right, you can even go to fermented foods like sauerkraut. Yeah. Right. What I try and do in patients, and again, this is how it’s evolved over the years is, we need to be doing something proactive for your guts, health. Yes. But what is that thing that’s going to work for you like some of my patients who are in a more carnivorous style of eating over the bus? He is. I found that them actually having sauerkraut, two spoons of that a day that can tolerate fine. So they’re doing something for their microbiome?

Dr. Mindy  

Yeah. Okay. So this is really interesting, because I absolutely agree with you as far as like people who can’t have fiber. And you know, a lot of people have SIBO a lot of it.

Rangan Chatterjee  

Yeah. So you could be treating that and then they can tolerate it. That’s right.

Dr. Mindy  

So I came up with something called carnivore fasting, where you fast 17 hours changing your gut microbiome. And then you eat in your eating window, you only eat meat. And this is obviously for animal based eaters. And you do that for three days in a row. So what you’re doing is you’re killing all the bad bacteria, you’re not feeding any of the stuff that triggers SIBO. What we do know about meat only diet is that it can actually upregulate T regulatory cells. So it calms that that gut. So you do it for like three days and then go back to more of a fiber diet and see how it works. Now sauerkraut what’s so interesting there is that the fermentation process brings those enzymes in that helped break it all down, so CBOs not as actively triggered. Yeah. Would you agree with that?

Rangan Chatterjee  

I love that. I think that’s a great approach. So if I if I take a step back back. What is that saying that’s currently saying, Okay, you might have an individual or a patient who’s struggling by, they may hear on a podcast or reading a book that I need to increase him at a fiber in my diet for my gut bugs, they then go and try that they feel awful. And then they feel really demoralized and deflated. That can’t do it. What’s happened to my guts, health? Yeah. So there’s a number of ways to tackle that. And this is where it’s hard on a podcast to get all the nuances across with an individual in my clinic. These are the kind of nuanced approaches I would take. Could be, oh, you’ve got SIBO, small intestinal bacterial overgrowth, let’s treat the SIBO. Right, maybe with changes to your diet, maybe sometimes with an antibiotic, although I prefer not to where possible, but I have done in the past, sometimes, with a really difficult case of SIBO. Then once you’ve corrected the underlying problem, then yeah, you might be able to bring in more vegetables, more prebiotic fibers, but not always. Right, in my experience, not always. And I think we have to acknowledge that some of us because of the way we’ve been living for so long, because of the pollutants in the atmosphere, and our food environment, because of the chronic stress, the chronic sleep deprivation. Actually, sometimes our bodies aren’t in a great state of health. Yeah. And we have to do things that in the short term help us. So I do believe it would be better for most people to be able to tolerate more fiber in their diets. But sometimes it’s going to be a period of years before they can do that. And so I think your approach that you outlined, is is a really great one, because I can see, you know, people will see Bo, who go and who eat meats, and who go on just a meat only diets. They love it, because there’s symptoms, aren’t there any the placebo ratable, and therefore, they want to stay on it forever? Absolutely. And again, I get that. And I think this is one of the things with the carnivore movements. Again, I understand that some people get a full resolution of that also mean symptoms. So why on earth would they want to change things, right? I get that I totally, you know, I’ve seen enough patients in pain, who struggle for years, if you find something that works, you’re gonna be like, Hey, you guys talk about whatever you want. Yeah, but I’ve been in pain. I’ve had bloating of a joint pain for 10 years. If I only meet, I’ve got no symptom, right. So I get that. But I do think that many people on a carnivorous diet would probably benefit over a period of time, as their body settles, if we can help them reduce stress. If we can help them repopulate that gut bugs and improve the health of that gut microbiome. Ideally, I think it would be good if they can tolerate more things.

Dr. Mindy  

It’s back to the rhythm, right? It’s like there’s no one diet for if even for each individual. There’s like, do this for a little while, then back away, and then do this kind of like what we talked about on your podcast, like, we should be maybe looking at seasonal eating and women should be looking at eating according their cycle like there has to we have to bring rhythm. Yeah.

Rangan Chatterjee  

And also, Monday, I want people to pay attention. Right? Pay attention to how you feel when you consume certain foods. Yeah, right, that three F freedom exercise about cravings was about paying attention. Yeah. Whenever you’re trying a new diet, whether it’s something you’ve heard you say Monday or me say or someone else or you’ve read about, try it. But ask yourself, how is this working for me? How do I feel? How’s my stomach feel? What am I bowels, like? What is my sleep like? Because people often miss that step. They outsource everything on to the experts. And they forget their own inner expertise. And I want people to understand that the conversation around plant based versus animal in my view, it’s the wrong debate to be having agreed, right, I get there’s an ethical issue. I’m not talking about that. I’m purely talking through the lens of health at the moment. Yes. I think it’s the wrong conversation. I think it’s the wrong question. The question I think we should be asking ourselves, for whatever we want to do with our health, whether it’s weight loss or anything else is, what’s the approach that’s working for me? How do I feel when I eat this way? Versus how do I feel when I eat that way? And you will build up this kind of inner knowledge and wisdom that you can’t get from any other experts? Yes. And I say just to finish off there. Two very simple questions. I’d like my patients to ask themselves each night are these what went well today? And what can I do differently tomorrow? I love that. I mean, what I love about those two questions is that they help us grow on a daily basis. In a very compassionate way. We’re not beating ourselves up. We’ve been very kind to ourselves again, okay, what went well today? Oh, you know what? I thought today was pretty bad. I skipped lunch. It was stressful at work. But despite all that, I still took half an hour to cook me in my family a home cooked meal when I came home from work. Okay, that’s you can write it in a journal if you want. That’s what went well today. Number two, what can I do differently tomorrow? Well, the reason I was so stressed today, and I skipped lunch is because I stayed up late watching Netflix last night. So I went to bed at midnight, so I didn’t sleep well, I was exhausted today, I was craving caffeine and sugar and ate more. Tonight, you know what, I can learn from that and go to bed a bit earlier. And if you ask yourself those two questions, day, after day, week, after week, month, after month, you will become a black belt in your own life, you will understand the things that work for you and the things that don’t work for you. And then you’re empowered to make the changes that are going to work best.

Dr. Mindy  

And then nobody ever takes your power away. No one takes your power away as you created it. I think that I

Rangan Chatterjee  

tell you that exercise will take people under five minutes to do you can probably do it in under two minutes. Or I got to do it.

Dr. Mindy  

I’ve started training my brain. I learned this from Bruce Lipton. I started training my brain as I go to bed to say, what amazing things happened to me today. And what amazing things do I get to do tomorrow? Because what I was doing before as I was like, okay, oh God, today, today was just a monster of a day. And oh, my god, tomorrow is gonna be a monster of a day. And I was finding myself going to sleep in this negative state. So I think you could take that marry that with what you just said, which is, okay, what what could I improve? You could start there. And what am I going to do different tomorrow? And then end before you go to bed with like, what wonderful things are going on in my life today, tomorrow, and really train your brain because as you go into that sleepy state, that’s what’s going to stick in your mind. Yeah, for sure. So, anyways, this has been amazing. And I’ll tell you, what I’m really trying to do for people is create a toolbox of all the things we can do to help people lose weight. Because how we started this off, I think is really important, which is it’s not for lack of trying, yeah, that people aren’t losing weight. And the modern world has us gaining weight, like you said so easily. So I hope that this one and then I did a solo episode A while back on all the little tricks you can do to unstick your weight. I’m hoping that this episode in that episode will be a really helpful pair.

Rangan Chatterjee  

I really hope them in the end. Just one final thing I’d love to say to your audience is if you’re getting overwhelmed, if you’re hearing loads and loads of tips, and you don’t know where to start, pick one thing Yeah, just go for like one thing and say to yourself, I’m going to do this thing for the next seven days. And don’t worry about everything else. Just focus on that thing. It could be dinner for breakfast. It could be that three freedom exercise and the sofa when you have cravings, it could be you’re going to ask yourself those two questions every night. Don’t do them all. Because if you try and do them all, you’ll do them all for a few days. And then when life’s busy or do none of them. That’s right. Pick one thing, make a promise to yourself and keep it Yeah.

Dr. Mindy  

Oh my gosh, I love that. Okay, I do have to finish off on this. I asked two questions of all my guests that I and it’s really a personal thing that I love. And I’m learning a lot from it. The first one is you kind of alluded to it. But what’s your Self Care Practice your daily self care practice? If you have one? And then the second one is what superpower Do you think you bring to the world?

Rangan Chatterjee  

Wow. I think the first one’s easy. And then the second one for me. Okay, so let’s start with number one. My most important self care practice is my morning routine. And a few years ago, it used to only last five or 10 minutes, but these days it lasts maybe 30 or 40 minutes. And I say that because I get that somebody will feel too busy for morning routine. I also used to feel too busy. Yeah, me too. But by observing and paying attention to who am I when I do my morning routine and who am I when I don’t? I’ve learned that I’m a better human being when I do my morning routine. I’m a better husband, a better father, and I’m a better doctor. So what does that look like? Well, there’s three components is what I call the three AMS, mindfulness, movement and mindset. So I get up early, I get it before my wife and kids. And that’s done intentionally, because I like time to myself. And the first time is a mindfulness practice. So at the moment, that’s 10 minutes of meditation. The second thing I do is some movement, that’s a second. That’s my five minute kitchen workouts my five minute strength workout while my coffee is brewing. Then the third AM, which is the final piece of my morning routine is mindset. So with my freshly brewed cup of coffee now that I’ve made the way I like it, I’ll either write in a journal, or do some affirmations or I’ve got a few books in my kitchen that are uplifting, right and I I’ll just pick up one of the books that takes my fancy. And I’ll read a few pages. So I start off the day putting myself in a positive mindset. Now at the moment, it takes me 30 or 40 minutes, I can do it in 15 or 20 minutes if I’m in a rush, but that’s my self care practice. And that’s the thing I rarely miss these days.

Dr. Mindy  

Yeah, that’s actually a lot like my self care practice. And if I don’t do it, I’m a different human.

Rangan Chatterjee  

Yeah, so I’ve just learned that means I need to prioritize my bedtime, so that I can get up early and do it. I’m not perfect. I’ve made mistakes in the past, I’m at this stage of my life now got 46, where I’ve learned that that’s how I get to operate the way I want to operate in the world. So that’s the answer your first question. I can’t stall on the second one for much longer.

Dr. Mindy  

Okay, so I can help you along, if you want.

Rangan Chatterjee  

What’s your superpower that you bring to the world? Question? Yeah. I don’t know if I necessarily call it my superpower. Maybe that’s my own internal issues where I can’t say that about myself. But I think I’m a compassionate person.

Dr. Mindy  

Yeah, I was. It’s funny, I was sitting here thinking kindness has to be in there. You know,

Rangan Chatterjee  

I, I genuinely believe that compassion is one of my main values. It’s the thing that I always try and bring to every interaction I have, whether it’s with my team, with my patients, with my wife, with my children with, you know, the barista in the coffee shop. Like, I think if you speak to most people who know me or interact with me, they’ll say, he always treats us well. He always treats us with kindness. So I would say that’s my superpower. And it also reminds me of what I consider to be the most important thing that I teach my own kids, which is, of course, I’m not saying your grades are not important at school guys. But what’s more important to me, is how you treat people, yes, right? I want you to be treating every single person you interact with, with respect, doesn’t matter who they are, what they can do for you or what they can’t do for you. You treat people with compassion. So I would probably say, the superpower I would like to think I have, and hopefully the superpower that I can pass on to my children is that of compassion.

Dr. Mindy  

I love that and I will reflect back to you for sure after spending the day with you, you can feel your compassion. And I it’s interesting because my husband and I have the same exact value system for our children. We said to each other when when our daughter was born our first first child if we do nothing else, we want to raise compassionate children and humans that can can be spread love and kindness on this planet if nothing else, that was our number one goal. So wrong in a adore you. So thank you so much for being here. Well, for letting me be here and just for talking to me all day long. This

Rangan Chatterjee  

is incredible. I’d love it. Many of you doing great work keep it same as you

Dr. Mindy  

Thank you. Thank you so much for joining me in today’s episode. I love bringing thoughtful discussions about all things health to you. If you enjoyed it, we’d love to know about it. So please leave us a review, share it with your friends and let me know what your biggest takeaway is.