The Science and Art of Intuitive Fasting – with Dr. Will Cole

Dr. Mindy  

On this episode of The resetter podcast, we go back to my fasting ribs. So you guys are in for a treat this next episode I got to pick the brain of Dr. Will call. Now, if you’re not familiar with will call, he just put out a book New York Times best selling book called intuitive fasting. Now I want to give you a little behind the scenes on intuitive fasting when I you’ll hear it in this in this interview that when I first heard the title, I thought that is brilliant, because there is a very intuitive part of fasting that nobody’s really talking about. And when it comes to fasting, we really need to be more in a cycling of fasting and not a rigidity of fasting. So absolutely loved it. Now, ironically, and you’re going to hear us talk about it. In this episode, he got a lot of backlash for the title of this book from many of the different eating disorder communities and people who felt that his concept around intuitive was too difficult to achieve. Now, what you’re going to hear in this episode is how effortless intuitive fasting can be, you’re also going to hear what a gentle kind man is, and how we can use mindset tools, how we can listen to our inner voice when we approach a fasting lifestyle. We also go into some of my favorite questions I get asked all the time about fasting, what breaks a fast, what’s more important what you eat, or when how long you fast? What does it matter, if you mix your fasts up? Do men and women need to fast differently? I mean, you we went into it all. And it was a really fun discussion for the two of us to have because we both have large communities that are practicing these principles. And I just enjoyed my time with him. And I think you guys that are fasting are going to find some incredible knowledge here to take your fasting to another level. I think you’re also those of you that are new to fasting are going to find some really easy ways to approach a fasting lifestyle. So Dr. Will Cole the and we’re talking everything you need to know about intuitive fasting, if you’re not familiar with him, he is the best selling author of keto terian, which we do talk about keto and vegetarian in this. And he wrote a book called the inflammation spectrum. So enjoy doctor will call.

Dr. Mindy  

Hey, Dr. Mindy here, and welcome to season four of the resetter podcast. Please know that this podcast is all about empowering you to believe in yourself. Again, if you have a passion for learning, if you’re looking to be in control of your health and take your power back, this is the podcast for you. Enjoy. I really love this concept of intuitive fasting. And I would love to hear your description of it. Because I can tell you in teaching fasting to my community, we really don’t have a good sense of what intuitive means when it comes to fit or no fit.

Dr. Will Cole  

And, yeah, so I mean, it’s a concept that born out of my clinical work of really bringing a mindfulness practice to fasting and using fasting as a meditation is and as a mindfulness practice. So it is, when I wrote the book, it’s just was me trying to convey in literary form, what I see clinically really worked for people is to what I call an I call them metaphysical meals is like check in with your body, check in with your energy levels, your digestion, your health goals, whatever they may be your brain function, and bring in acts of stillness into your life as you’re fasting to start to learn. Like have a renegotiate your relationship with your body because there’s so much training there’s so much indoctrination when it comes to food and how we use food and our bodies and how we feel about our bodies. So it’s an exploration introspective exploration about our health and our body and the relationship of of those over the course of the book. So I take walk people through this experience this protocol, of of learning about yourself of learning about your health, while at the same time building metabolic flexibility and but also growing that mindfulness muscle which I think is really important, because metabolic flexibility on a physical level is firm foundation for for more mindful eating and intuitive fasting not because you’re restrictive or it’s disordered eating, but you can go longer without eating when you’re more metabolically flexible because your blood sugar is more stable because you’re more metabolically flexible. So intuitive fasting will be an outpouring of that at the more You get into the rhythm and the art of this, of learning about your body, but the will also will have grown the mental, emotional, spiritual side of it as well. So I think the physical stuff’s important to build because if someone’s metabolically inflexible, it’s really fasting will be anything but intuitive. It’ll, it’s paradoxical on purpose. I mean, it’s, it won’t be intuitive. But the more you metabolic flexibility you have, there will be a beautiful rhythm that you build for yourself over time. And it takes time, it takes time, it’s not a quick fix. But that mental emotional side of it is really important too. Because that way, you can see what’s serving you and what’s not serving you. And it’s okay to be gentle. Some days, you may plan for that 18 hour fast. So that omad day, and you just show up for yourself and say, No, I’m gonna, I need a 1212. How do you like just the basic day of just refeeding and taking it easy. So there’s that analogy that I use in the book is sort of this proverbial yoga class for your metabolism. As somebody starts out yoga, at the beginning, yoga won’t be intuitive Yoga will be very unnatural, because maybe the person’s inflexible, seems to with someone’s with metabolic flexibility. Fasting will not be intuitive, but they into when they start getting flexibility on a metabolic level. Just like that yoga becomes a practice, this fasting will become a practice, and art where you can ebb and flow and show up for yourself. Because you feel great doing these things that really serve you.

Dr. Mindy  

Do you think it’s hard to learn that, like, we are one of the things I mean, my kids are grown now. But when when my kids were little, I really got a sense of what an outside in world we live in. And that we have really been taught. If you’re not feeling good, put something from the outside in. If your kid is not feeling well, you got to take a medication at the end and put something from outside in. And we really haven’t been taught even though we come pre programmed with this intuition. Do you think society knocks it out of us? And it’s hard to untrain? What society has done?

Dr. Will Cole  

Yeah, I think that that it’s probably always been a human issue, right with with the way that we live our lives throughout history. But I think now more than ever, we’re so divorced from our roots. And we’re so divorced from checking in with our body, that people think just because something’s common, they equate that with being normal. ubiquity doesn’t necessarily equate with normalcy. And many people are so divorced from what’s even normal. It’s interesting, I started out the book with a quiz that they can kind of learn and be more introspective about their body. And that quizzes as is are questions that I adapted from questions that I asked patients. So it’s interesting how many times as a clinician when I’m consulting patients, or people say, Whoa, like, I thought that was normal. And they’ll just like, I thought that was just me. I thought that, and then they have this this realization of saying, I was settling for not feeling good, just because I thought that was a way it was, quote, unquote, normal. And it’s really amazing to see people check in with themselves. And yeah, I agree with you. Like, overall, we are, we don’t realize like what our body’s ability to do, where it’s not always adding more stuff from the outside in. Sometimes it’s allowing our body the chance to upregulate things from the inside out, yeah, tap into these pathways that are lying in a slumber in dormancy and weird, haven’t given our body the chance to do what it’s capable of.

Dr. Mindy  

Yeah, I mean, to me, that’s what I love about fasting is it you can, you can take a person who is dubious, and doesn’t believe in the healing power their own body or hasn’t been educated, and you start to teach them how to fast and you reconnect them with this intelligence, they didn’t even know they had that. And they don’t have to believe in it. You just have to show them the way. And the body does the rest.

Dr. Will Cole  

Yeah, you’re absolutely right. It’s so funny that people say about any one of these tools that we have within health and wellness and functional medicine, they’ll say something like, Well, do you what do you believe? Do you believe in it? Or do you believe in this? Or do you believe in fasting? Do you believe in healthy, like, this isn’t a faith? This is just like, it’s just you just, it’s just a matter of belief or not believe? We’ll try it. How does? How does it serve you give your body the chance to lean into these pathways, but it says you’re right. If you’re going to notice it in your life, you don’t have to believe in anything. You’re just going to see it. The evidence will speak for itself.

Dr. Mindy  

Yeah. Which is what is so incredible. So okay, so what is intuitive fasting look like because the other question that I had when, when I, your book first came out, I thought to myself, Okay, well, there’s these days when I don’t really want to fast, but I know it’s 10 o’clock in the morning, and I know Hey, I gotta I’m not gonna be able to get to some food till maybe two or three this afternoon. And if I just sit tight, ketones are going to kick in. I go along my way by two or three in the afternoon. I’m not hungry anymore. My body’s in a rhythm. So When you have those moments where the body’s like eat or eat chocolate cake or eat something is that how do we distinguish between what’s intuitive in the moment, and what’s just my mind telling me, hey, I need a state changer.

Dr. Will Cole  

That’s a big part of the conversation of the book, because it’s really nice for us to say, I am intuitive eater, or like even saying, I’m mad, I call the book intuitive fasting, it was paradoxical on purpose. Because if someone’s in the throes of, of stress, right, if they’re stressed out, they have a lot going on in their life. Or physiologically, if they have blood sugar imbalances, and, you know, hormone imbalances, or hangry, nests, or insatiable cravings, if they’re stuck in that sugar burning mode, it all of that stuff will disguise themselves as your intuition. So I want people to grow in the mindfulness side of things, and grow in the metabolic flexibility side of things, to have that awareness on what works for them and what doesn’t work for them. So that goes back to the art and practice of really learning about your body, and evolving. And at the beginning, I want people to follow the protocol in the book to learn that art of yourself and learn that rhythm of your body and what’s serving you and what’s not, that are learning about yourself won’t happen overnight. So I want people to cycle through that protocol as many times as they needed to, to start to improve their health on a physical level, ie flexibility, metabolic flexibility, which is that foundation for intuitive, mindful eating, but also growing up mindfulness awareness. So every day is going to be slightly different. So there are days like you said, where you know, if you lean into that deeper fast in the morning, you’re gonna feel fantastic, but you have the awareness to know that you can you have that awareness to say, look that initial hungriness or that initial craving isn’t really going to serve me. And you have the agency over your house, not in an obsessive restrictive way. But in a real, what I call in the book food piece, you have this governing piece that allows you to, to make that rational, logical, aware as decision for your body. Many people aren’t at that point, you know, this, but like many people are just sort of completely enslaved by their cravings and enslaved with with their hangry anus and they are confused that stuff for themselves or and then even today, with the movement that’s happening on social media with the intuitive eating community, they’ll call that their intuition. I mean, hungriness is not your intuition. I mean, and blood sugar volatility is not your intuition, you can make it sound nice, you can put a nice filter out on Instagram. But when you look at labs and look at somebody’s quality of life, it’s really not anything intuitive. Because your intuition is never going to lead you towards a unhealthy body, it’s just never going to do that. So your intuition is going to want to preserve you and make you feel healthier and vibrant, and make you live the most vibrant life you can live. So that’s really the conversation that I’m having in the book is I wanted to have an authentic conversation about this idea of intuition and food and fasting. But to have that we need to talk about the health stuff. And I think that it’s good for people to use that protocol at the beginning to start to learn about themselves or, but then later on, they can evolve that and the protocol will look different intuitively, as we are all different. We all are different, right? How long do you think it takes if you’re somebody who has been I mean, I use myself as a as an example. My mom was the classic. You had a rough day, you’re not feeling good. Let’s sit down and have a meal. And so I learned over the years that if you’re not feeling good eat, so when I came to fasting, that was really hard to undo. Because what did I do when I wasn’t feeling good? Now, when I first learned fasting, I could have said, hey, it’s really intuitive right now, I’m not feeling very well, I’m gonna need to break my fast. How long do you feel like it takes to get the rhythm? I mean, I know what it did for them. It took me and are there tools to help us bridge that place from where we used food to soothe our souls, to really tapping into the intuitive part of us.

Dr. Will Cole  

It depends on our starting point. I mean, I know as a clinician, I mean, I’m meeting people at so many different points of their health journey. Some people I’ve been at this for a while, and they’re doing some good things that are improving their, their awareness of body awareness and their metabolic flexibility. Some people are not at all. So depends on your starting point. But that’s part of the reason why I put the quiz in the book. So they can retake that quiz to kind of check in with their improvements. And maybe after every cycle of the four week protocol, take it again and you’ll see your score come down. And that’s a sign that metabolic flexibility is rising, your your health is rising. So I would say the average person I mean, after one month, I want to see considerable changes moving in the right direction. After two to three months of cycling through. I think you should be solidly more aware of your body. That’s tip Believe this sweet spot, not that everyone’s going to be 100% In that time, because we know this is a journey for for life, but you’ll continue to at least evolve to the place of evolving the protocol for yourself. Because you’re going to be able to experiment each week with a different type of fasts with a different type of like goal that we’re trying to achieve or support. So after two or three, site goes on, yeah, I really find that most people will say, Oh, I felt really good doing this, I’m going to do more of that, I’m going to do less of that. It didn’t work for me right now. So that will evolve that protocol for themselves. It won’t, it won’t be a protocol, it’ll just be their life. And then what what’s important for people to realize is what serves you today isn’t necessarily what will serve you forever and ever. So it’s okay to pivot and evolve. Even as you lean into these practices. That’s the art of it all, is that you’ll be able to say, well, maybe there’s this certain facets omad are great for a season, but that season has passed, I need to like do something else. So I want people to be okay with adjusting things and being flexible with themselves. Because these are all amazing, beautiful therapeutic tools that will will be dynamic as your health is dynamic and your situations externally change to

Dr. Mindy  

Yeah. Do you think there’s one fast that the human body benefits from the most?

Dr. Will Cole  

No, I think that there, I what I love about the vertical in the book and conversation that I am having in part is variability. I think variabilities a very powerful tool to keep people from being stagnant and that metabolic flexibility because they find that like these deeper fasts and can be great therapeutic tools for some people, but then they do it for months and months and months and months and never deviate. And then they think, well, this isn’t working for me like it used to work for them. So sometimes it’s counterintuitive, especially for the like the fasting aficionado, is to like loosen up and allow more of a refeeding time and shakes things up with leptin and shakes things up with the hormone system. So sometimes it’s the expanding and contracting the vacillating eating and fasting windows that keep things flexible, just like that yoga class is like there’s a time in place for holding that warrior too. But there’s also time in place for that shavasana and laying your butt down and chilling out. So I want people to have that grace and lightness to this as they don’t have to think more is better. And it’s like constantly doing these deeper effects. Because I think the variability is really the spice of metabolic flexibility.

Dr. Mindy  

Yeah, we have had such an interesting experience with our community. We do a five day fasting challenge together every month, and we throw out different fats. And all the omad people came pouring on to my platform. And they were like, I was so great. At fasting. I lost I just I just talked to one this morning on clubhouse that they were like, I lost 44 pounds in nine months. It was amazing. And now I’m stuck. So in your opinion, why is that happening?

Dr. Will Cole  

Well, I mean, the diagnostician nerd in me wants me want one right one around labs and see where it’s at, but oftentimes leptin. Right? Leptin is high for many people that do really, really well with fasting, because they have leptin resistance and intermittent fasting time compressed kind of time compressed feeding different types of fasting protocols will help to lower leptin, which is really a lot of the benefits, and it’s also resetting the gut microbiome, it’s, it’s lowering inflammation levels, it’s doing amazing things with insulin and blood sugar, too, and all that cool stuff, right? But then you get to the point and I talk about this in the book, it’s in the week four of the book, it’s the hormone rebalance week, where we really talk about it’s counterintuitive, but like opening up that window and increasing clean carbohydrates to to support gluconeogenesis in a bigger way and support just glucose overall in a bigger way I should say by supporting thyroid hormone conversion by boosting leptin up a little bit by supporting progesterone more depending on you know if you’re a cycling female or not, so I think that these are all things that shaking things up and loosening up some ways can be a great way to move past a plateau. So I know the omad person I love he said the omad people like their tribe, they

Dr. Mindy  

aren’t do anything different they what they got great results with

Dr. Will Cole  

all right, and then they hold into it like it’s like a religion. I mean, it’s like anything right? The keto community has that any types of fasting but like a subset community within the vast community. Oh man, people are diehards. But the reality is loosening things up. I’ve seen this time and time again can be good. Experiment, see how you feel run labs when necessary. And realize that it served you for a time but then long term, what does maintenance look like for me? So week three in the protocol is an almost omad week. It’s a it’s an amazing tool. I use that but it’s not it’s vacillating assault. We’re not doing all that forever and ever.

Dr. Mindy  

Right Okay, what do you think is more important? How long you fast? Or what you break your fast with?

Dr. Will Cole  

Oh, good question. I like this, I would say, here’s what I would say, you’re gonna get benefits from both the food and the fasting, right you’re getting, there’s amazing studies that show this. And we all probably know patients and friends, maybe in our lives that don’t eat the best, but fast and see amazing changes. So there’s definitely fasting holds its own for having amazing benefits. And you don’t have to be perfect with your diet don’t even need to change much with how you eat, to see some changes for many people. But I would say that the other side of the coin is food has amazing things, even if somebody’s eating big windows, and they’re not really fast, even if you’re eating late at night, but they’re eating healthy foods, you’re still going to see amazing changes. So I see them two sides of the same coin. But when you bring them to get there and improve the foods you eat and improve the way that you your time, your way that you’re eating and bring integrated fasting into your life, it’s exponentially going to benefit both. So as a functional medicine practitioner, I’m not going to advocate somebody to fast their way out of a poor diet just not going to does that mean you have to be perfect? No, there’s no it’s not about that. It’s about loving your body enough to do things that make you feel good. And really having this paradigm shift, because what I can see happening is some people not to say that’s a large group in the authentic fasting community. But there’s a lot of people that aren’t really new, they’re new to the fasting world and, or they’re coming in with a lot of dieting, dog mind, food, shame, and all that stuff. And then they’re not changing their foods. And then we’re telling them to fast like i This should not be a dis disordered eating disguised as a wellness practice. And I think a lot of times people think I’m gonna just like eat junk food, I’m gonna really fast the next day because I just wasn’t good eater. That’s not healthy. So we need to reframe why we’re even doing this. And these should be both acts of service for your health and service for how you feel. And I don’t think someone long term should be like, trying to fast their way out of a poor diet.

Dr. Mindy  

Yeah, I love that. So do you think you should apply the same principle to eating as we do to fasting? So if we’re going to vary our fast should we vary our foods? And if we’re going to vary our foods? Do you think as somebody who wrote keto keto terian? Is that how we set a Keto terian? Yeah, that you could be keto terian one day and a carnivore the next.

Dr. Will Cole  

Yeah, I mean, keto terian. It’s quite flexible. I mean, the title of the book is called it mostly plant based. So it’s actually a more of a Mediterranean ketogenic diet, because it has wild cod fish and fresh seafood. And yeah, there’s a lot. So the approach and I talked about in Quito terian, which came out in 2018, that of a cyclical keto terian approach. So I I very much want the average person to do a cyclical because it foresees seasonally, even if that’s what that looks like, from an ancestral health perspective, like being more in ketosis, deeper fast during the winter, and then having more fresh fruits and tubers and lighter fast in the summer. It’s many ways for you to do the variability thing. It could be around your menstrual cycle could be around the month. It could be around the week. It could be seasonally. I mean, I think the variability is a tool that people need to integrate. And whatever works for you sustainably, you should experiment with these things. But there is a time in place for a carnivore protocol. I mean, I put patients on carnivore protocols, a well formulated nutrient dense clean carnivore diet are things that I have to use clinically. Sometimes for people that have wild food reactions. They have reactions to just about every Oxalic lectin histamine, salicylates thing you can think of, and we use that as an ultimate elimination diet for a time to untangle that. So yeah, there’s a time in place to use that as part of this variability. But then we leave them out of it. We then we lean him into soups and stews and pureed vegetables and low FODMAP vegetables. And long term, I don’t see anybody staying like pure carnivore forever and ever. But I think it’s a tool to calm things down for karma wild, an unregulated immune system down.

Dr. Mindy  

Yeah. And I think, again, just the feedback that I get from my community and listening to how people’s mindset is around food, is that we really want to put ourselves in one camp, kind of like the omad people. We want. We have the vegan people, we have the carnivore people and we find our camp and we get really excited about that. Do you think that we do ourselves a dis justice? When we decide I’m a vegan, I’m a carnivore, I’m whatever camp that there really shouldn’t be a one diet plan for any human.

Dr. Will Cole  

I think it can be good to find community, I think it can be good to find solutions. Like you said, most of these people comes in with the best of intentions, like when they clean up their diet and went plant based, it changed their life. Or they love animals like, like, there’s some good stuff to that, like they want to like treat the earth better. And like the guy with really good intentions, and they hear about all the environmental implications of like factory farming, and they’re doing that or their health improved, because they got up tons of junk food. And then it’s like they that was their path to feeling better. Or the carnivore like, we know the epidemic of autoimmune problems and the amount of reactions that people are having even healthy foods. It helps people so then they get super tribal about it. I think as long as your tribal tribalism is open minded and saying like this worked for me, but I still respect you. And I’m okay with pivoting and evolving. If this comes to the point where I don’t need to keep doing this all the time. I think that’s completely fine. The problem is when people were near this toxic tribalism, which I don’t know what the heck, we’re having toxic tribalism and wellness, like we’re talking about health and wellness and food, like leave it to the politicians, they think this strange politic political stuff, we should be like coming together and saying, like, okay, that works for you. That doesn’t work. For me. That’s the bio individuality. That’s the heart of functional medicine. Let’s be okay with differences. Yeah, and be okay, with a lot more in common than we have a difference. Because we all agree that factory farming isn’t good. We all agree that processed refined stuff is in good. So let’s just focus on that. And then the details of the types of macros we focus on, or the types of foods that we eat, it should not create such a toxic tribalism. And I see I saw it when intuitive fasting came out. I mean, I didn’t realize that. I don’t know if you saw like the crazy.

Dr. Mindy  

I did. I was gonna ask you about it. We’ll go ahead and tell it because I was like, Oh, poor? Well, yeah, it’s like I didn’t know Watson asked you didn’t know is there?

Dr. Will Cole  

Definitely not. I mean, talk about I’m sitting Lee, I see patients 11 hours a day, I wrote the books at the end of 2019. And over 2020, I wrote into it a vast thing I thought this is going to be because I knew it was actually in a book, I thought this is going to be such a new thing for the average person to learn that this is a mindful and gentle, flexible approach to intermittent fasting. Because I know it’s important. And I was bringing a different perspective to the conversation, which a lot of times, it’s just lost, the context is lost around this amazing tool. And it’s not a very restrictive fasting protocol. And I didn’t realize that when the book came out that they would be so twisted in this toxic tribalism. So this example, I mean, you could say anybody, there’s so much of this going on, but like the for me, it was like the eating disorder community, the body positivity community, and these people that a lot of rds as well that are intuitive eating coaches, they like what like a pack mob mentality, these rabid wolves of people that didn’t even read the book. I mean, you did such a cliche, judging a book by its cover, you had never even read the book. So it was a combination of me writing it, I’m sure like someone that’s not I don’t even know why. So probably me the fact that we call it intuitive eating or to to fasting. And Gwyneth Paltrow wrote the foreword of the book. So it’s she’s a lightning rod for many things as well. So I think that people just miss understood it. But that’s a good example of toxic tribalism. It’s like you because it’s not your thing, and you’re not in your echo chamber, and then you get riled up from your Echo Chamber, you’re gonna demonize somebody over a food book, or fasting book. It’s like their big problems in the world. There. It’s so it’s so odd. But the I mean, the reality is, was way more positive than negative. And honestly, I got the same thing with keto terian. To a lesser degree, it was like the Keto world, we could have been offended. And then like the plant based world was really offended, because they had an egg on the cover. And I said, mostly plant. Eggs are very offensive to vegans. And then you just pissed off the Keto and the plant based community. So that was a good one with keto dairy. I’m used to the toxic tribalism within wellness man in this strange

Dr. Mindy  

way. You know, we have a Facebook group, the fasting group that and we’ve got like, 42,000 people in it, and I kid you not at least once or twice a week, we have to break up a fight from the vegans and the carnivores. And take a post down do something just because of the people really struggling to allow other people to express their food habits. And it’s you know, and then there’s a lot of misinformation about like what’s best for the planet, not for the planet. And I and I really in today’s age, I feel like more than ever we need to allow everybody to take their own health path. And to your point in the wellness world, let’s just applaud the fact that somebody hopped on a path. And they’re trying to do something that is amazing. Now, I think the next evolution is we have to help everybody customize their wellness path for them. And I would say that’s what I really appreciate appreciate about your book is you took a giant step forward, instead of just saying, Do this, don’t do that. You’re like, well, there’s this intuitive spirit in you that you can tap into. So I’m a fan. Well, I thought, I thought you did a good job. And I watched people come at you. And I was like, Oh, my gosh, I can’t believe that. Well,

Dr. Will Cole  

I think the last time we were supposed to talk originally, we were supposed to talk that week that it was all going down, and I got the timezones off, and I apologize. But like, that was the week it was going down. So I was like, Oh, my Lord, it just, it was fine. It was actually quite a good meditation to go through it. Because it was like, alright, yeah, I just need to have non resistance towards now. And have compassion towards people that are really triggered by they’re addicted to being triggered, let’s be honest, and they’re addicted to being offended. And then they’re addicted to food, probably that is driving inflammation, and they probably have brain inflammation to some degree. Yeah. So you’d have to have compassion towards people that feel like crap, and they hurt people hurt people, as they say

Dr. Mindy  

true. Do you think people with eating disorders should fast?

Dr. Will Cole  

Generally speaking, no. I mean, I make that very clear in the book that this is not a book for people with with eating disorders, either current or the past. Now, I would like to have a nuanced conversation about this, because I think they should get the go ahead from an eating disorder specialist, I think they should talk to their doctor. That’s what I say very clear in the book within the first couple pages of the book. So this is not for that. But I will say, and I’m sure you know this, because this is like the fast part of the fasting community in a big way. There are many people that got the go ahead from the eating disorder specialist, they got the go ahead from their doctor. And they feel better than ever, when they got their health in order. And they used to have an eating disorder, but they feel better than ever doing intermittent fasting. Because they’re not starving themselves, they feel a lot healthier, because a lot of times people that have eating disorders, ate ice, there could be obviously trauma from the past, and a lot of different reasons why someone could have any disorder or the sense of control and obsession. But when you start feeling healthy, and you get blood sugar balanced, you get inflammation levels lowered, you get their gut healthy. I’m telling you, when people have many people, I’ve seen that a bit were just had such an unhealthy relationship with their body in such an unhealthy relationship with food, to start finding that food piece for themselves through intermittent fasting in part, I think it can be an amazing tool for people, but they need to do it. I don’t know where they’re at on their recovery. I don’t know where what their specifics of their case, I don’t know. Like, they need to look at what type of intermittent fasting would be right for them. But so I think it can be amazing tool, you just have to be judicious and get the Go ahead, because I have many patients that love it. And they’ve felt they’re still better than ever, because they’re not out of control. And by that I don’t mean that they’re now in this obsessive control that they used to have. With the disordered eating. I’m saying they have this resolute awareness of what works for their body and what doesn’t. And they’re not clinging to this sort of unsustainable, unhealthy relationship. They just have a piece. And they can they can intuitively fast and use it as an act of service for their body.

Dr. Mindy  

Mm hmm. I love that. And I would absolutely agree I’ve we’ve worked with a lot of people who have had eating disorders, and I’ve seen it, like, break them free from food, when they do it. Right. And I so am in alignment with bring your whoever’s helping you through that process, bring them into this conversation, because there is something on the other side of that, which is, is incredible. So

Dr. Will Cole  

yeah, that’s a great way of putting it you’re breaking free. I’ve seen people break free from that, because they’re not addicted to food anymore. No, they’re, they’re not bound by that addiction. And then they can have this like this. They’ve made peace with all of that. I think it’s really cool to see. But yeah, we normally as like functional medicine practitioners we’re working with in combination with their eating disorder specialists. So they’re looped in and all that. Yeah.

Dr. Mindy  

Yeah. And I think the way we’ve been taught nutrition actually disconnects us from our primitive design, and what fasting does all versions of this reconnects you. So when you get reconnected, that inflammation comes down, you make better decisions, you see things a little clearer. So I think it’s a great tool, and that bridge can be tough. So evolving all your practitioners is great. Yeah. Okay. I have to ask you all the questions that I get and I’m so curious your opinion on this. Okay, what breaks a fast

Dr. Will Cole  

I love that. That’s a comment. That’s a I probably get asked that every day, right, meet. Yeah. And I say add one more thing to what you said. I would say this, I was through all the hubbub of the book when it came out. I can’t tell you how many people that were part of the eating disorder community can’t message me by the hundreds. That said, I can’t even say this publicly, because I will be attacked by the eating disorder community and the body positivity community. It by by even saying the intermittent fasting improved my health and improving like there’s such a fear of that weird Kancil culture within wellness that they can’t even speak what they have gone through their own experience. So it’s really crazy to see that. But there’s an outpouring of people that I think that are looking to feel good. And a lot of times people within the eating disorder community and the body positivity community are told, eat whatever you want, like have that doughnut, have that cake have all that stuff. And could you imagine someone with autoimmunity, people that have blood sugar problems, that diabetes, that having anxiety issues, feeding them with that is inflammatory foods it’s make, it’s not working for them, it may work for some people, and that may be part of their recovery. But there are many people that it’s just that’s not working, and they need to find their true north and they need to calm that stuff down so they can actually hear what their body truly needs. I think that’s an important point, too. Yeah, no,

Dr. Mindy  

I thank you for pointing that out. I really, because there is there is this genre of people that we can really help with fasting, if they’re doing it with the style and approach like you’re teaching.

Dr. Will Cole  

Absolutely. So what breaks it fast? This is like the age old question. So you never get a degree, you’re never gonna get an agreed upon answer on this. So right, I think there’s a spectrum, a gradient of things that are erring on the side of I want this fast to be as pure, and I want to get all the benefits as possible. And then I think there’s a gradient of area of fasting, mimicking things that you’re gonna get most of the benefits of fasting, if not all of them. But you could be down regulating some of the benefits benefits, you’re not cancelling out your fast, and I’m breaking your fast, and then there’s things that break the fast, namely, I would say, higher, obviously, eating more more food, like above a certain calorie threshold, or specifically things that could impact insulin, really impact digestion, or impact mTOR in a considerable way. So I think that the safest bet is water, or liquids that don’t have any calories. I think coffee and tea is in that state too. We know that cortisol can be impacted and some people in within the Keto and the fasting community that say coffee can impact insulin and all that stuff. But the reality is, look what’s happening in this hormetic effect of this hormesis of fasting cortisol is coming up some to it just because suddenly raises cortisol doesn’t necessarily mean it’s bad copy also can increase lipolysis and fat burning can increase satiety levels to make your fast easier. So I don’t I think that coffee and tea are, are a great tool to consider. And you could do caffeine free tea if you if you caffeine if you are sensitive to caffeine. But as a general rule, if you’re not sensitive to caffeine, if you’re a fast metabolizer of caffeine, I think coffee and tea are like pretty solid, you’re cool. I think the next step over is adding the healthy fats into the coffee and tea or water. So like the MCT oil, the coconut oil, the ghee, even where it’s just fat, you’re not getting protein. So it’s you’re not impacting insulin, it’s such a negligible amount and you’re not having copious amounts of these, it’s just a spoonful. So calories are pretty low, you’re not really impacting things one way or the other too much. If you’re having multiple cups of those, I think that could be a little bit and not ideal during the fast so maybe just do one of those and then the rest just having without the fat in it. And then the next question that people ask is, can I add the almond milk creamer? Can I add the collagen so like at that point, the almond milk creamer or the coconut creamer milk, coconut milk, small amounts of protein probably not that big of a deal. It is calories that are having some carbohydrates in there to such a small amount but if you even look at what Valter Longo is doing it at USC when it comes to the fasting mimicking approach you’re having pretty significant amount amount of calories yeah and and proteins and fats and carbs. And the research shows you’re still in the fasting mimicking state you’re not breaking your fast totally. It would just be under that gradient of fasting mimicking, you’re still going to be in ketosis, you’re still going to be getting a lot of the benefits of it. Once you start adding in scoops of collagen protein still calorically not that much. Really not that big of a deal. If you look at what the research on what Valter Longo is looking at, I still would say more or less you’re going to be in a fasting mimicking state. But for me, I think erring on the side of the fact that mTOR pathway is sensitive to protein I would err on not adding higher amounts of protein and even if it is just a scoop of collagen and use that collagen as the break the fast meal like towards the end of your fast is what I would say because it is very gentle on the gut. It’s very bioavailable, a great source of complete protein. But I would have more of the collagen and even like soups and stews and bone broth at the towards the end of the fast as the break the fast meal. That’s not to say that there’s not a place for brothy and souping. I just think it would be more of like that fasting mimicking state. So that’s that’s my overall thoughts on it. Yeah.

Dr. Mindy  

Yeah, no, I Well said, I think that’s really well said, What do you think of the measurement of like, measure your blood sugar? Drink what you’re going to drink HOUR LATER measure your blood sugar again? You know, what’s, what’s that doing? Do you think that’s helpful for people that are first learning this?

Dr. Will Cole  

Oh, yeah, I think that’s great. I think that at the beginning, two metrics like that, like getting a glucometer, getting a ketone meter can be a great way to see how your body reacts. That’s a brilliant point. Because that bio individuality is we’re all different. And these foods are going to Interplay different how what your activity level, how you slept, all these other variables are going to play a part of it too. And that goes back to that, use it for a time to check in with your body and to learn how your body interacts with these things. Over time, that art that intuition, you won’t necessarily had to keep measuring over and over again, unless you’re a super mega mega biohacker. And you really love that stuff. Keep doing it. But many people they don’t want to be super, like granular in that, you know, mired down with these the metrics all the time. So keep it simple if you want to, but at the beginning, it could be a good learning experience about your Yeah, well, and that’s

Dr. Mindy  

why I think the title intuitive fasting, from a fasting perspective is brilliant. Because I would say I know that moment where it’s almost like they’re switch flips. And I’m like, oh, okay, I’m in ketosis. Now I get it. Like, there’s like a weird switch that happens. And once you’ve been fasting long enough, you aren’t necessarily using the glucometer. Or you’re not leaning into that. But in the beginning, you’re learning you’re, you’re It’s like learning to ride a bike, and you’re just learning that process. And once you get it down, it becomes very intuitive to you.

Dr. Will Cole  

Yeah, yeah. It’s a beautiful rhythm, and the art of it. So there’s like, there’s the science and the art of it. The science is all the stuff. The cool stuff is the research of how to do these things. But the art of it is how do you translate that to real life, your own and a one experiment and evolve that over time as your health and changes?

Dr. Mindy  

Yeah. Do you have something that you use strategically think about what you want to break your fast with? I actually had this conversation with Thomas de Lauer. And he you know, buff bodybuilding guy, he likes to work out in a fasted state, and then break it with protein so that he goes from a state of autophagy to mTOR. And he starts to build. I know that some people are now saying, Gosh, you should think about eating your carbs earlier in the day because you’re more sensitive. I know some people love to break their fast with fat. Do you have a theory or a personal value system around what you break your fast with?

Dr. Will Cole  

I do. I do. And lo funny side note, Thomas de Lauer and I were friends. And he people I’m like, the thin version of Thomas de Lauer people was like, You guys could be brothers. Like, yeah, and we were at some keto event, he was at a different one. We were in the same hotel at the same time for two different events, and we had to hang out, hang out with my son. My son was probably 13 at the time. He’s a cool, really cool guy. But um, it’s funny. Every time I post a picture, it’s like I see someone in the comment section that looks like Thomas.

Dr. Mindy  

Well, I had to laugh because I you know, a lot of our receptors are menopausal women. And I’m like, I did go and interpret what Thomas said, because he came to my community. And I’m like, Okay, let’s just look at Thomas. Thomas is like, what a 40 year old bodybuilding guy. Now let’s apply it to a menopausal woman. What is

Dr. Will Cole  

it? But you know, he, yeah, so my thoughts on that is that break the fast meal in the in the book, which I talked more about in week three, which is the almost omad day, right, it’s the almost omad week because I think the once you get 18 and beyond on time compressed feeding, I think that’s when the break the fast meal means the most because like the villa is going to be shorter, that cortisol is going to be a bit higher, you’re gonna you’re in that deeper ketosis, more of that hormetic effect. I don’t know if some people need to be that concerned with the 14, like it below. Even the 16 and below like just eat healthy food and lean and do it. I don’t know if it has to be that granular and that specific but I do think that that 18 and beyond and obviously multiple day fasts should be have a proper break the fast meal. To me I think that soups and stews are really helpful in that way because you’re getting the protein through the broth like we’re talking about bone broth based things. And I think it’s a great, easy to digest protein, very gentle on the gut. The vegetables are cooked and pureed and soft and it’s sort of just gently leaving the body out of that healing state. So I think and then about an hour, an hour and a half later, you can have your regular meal. So I think that broths, and soups and stews are an easy thing to do. Other things could be I think protein can be fine. I don’t think having too much fat at the beginning is a great idea because it could be really disruptive to your digestion earlier on. I don’t think you should have lots of raw vegetables or anything that’s hard to digest. I think it should be soft, cooked, gentle on the gut smoothies, I think could work, depending on how you do them. I think smoothies could be an easy transition to what

Dr. Mindy  

do you think about breaking your fast with dry farm wines?

Dr. Will Cole  

Well, they will dry faster by you asking for a friend asked me. Through all the people Dr. voms will tell you that it does not throw you out of ketosis. So I you know, it has its place. I don’t drink mine. But you know, I love dry farms for people who do first. Right?

Dr. Mindy  

Right, exactly. Okay, I have to ask you this question. men versus women with fasting, this is something that I spend a lot of time talking about, what are your feelings on the differences for fasting for men versus women?

Dr. Will Cole  

So I, I spend a lot of the book talking about that, because I mean, 90% of my patients are, are women. So I would say this is that the reducing women into one group is like an interesting thing. And I know that you guys, you know this already, because you’re in the fasting group, but like that, for people that are maybe they new to this, like saying fasting is not good for women is very reductionist, like, Who is she? And how is she fasting? Those are two really important things. So instead of saying fasting is not good for women asked Who is she and how was she fasting, because there’s a lot of different types of women. I know, that’s baby breaking news for people, but they’re all going through different things in their life, and how fasting interplays with their health and where they’re at on their health journey is going to be different, and then how she’s doing that intermittent fast. So I genuinely think that people’s need to and that goes back to that intuitive fasting component of it checking in with your body. Because I find that therapeutically, the average menstruating woman could do moderate fasts for a while, time compressed, feeding for a while and therapeutically is going to get way more good things out of it. But then that’s going to from what they’re going to hit a maintenance mode, where leptin starts coming down and inflammation. So it’s coming down that guts improving their blood sugar’s more balanced, at that point, their metabolic flexibility is improving. At that point, their maintenance mode is going to find in the more they’re going to have to do more of a cyclical fast around their menstrual cycle. Not everybody has to will hit that maintenance mode, that quickly. Sometimes they can go months and months before they ever need to worry about doing any moderation around their menstrual cycle because they’re getting so much amazing therapeutic benefits from the intermittent fast that they’re still riding that high of health improvements. Yeah, but depending on where their starting point is when leptin starts coming down. Some a lot of menstruating women will do better with lighter fasts around their period and around ovulation. And that’s not just fasting, that’s also looking at your macros too. So increasing those clean carbohydrates around those days too can be one tool to consider where you may be lower carb and keto the other days of the month, but you’re increasing their clean carbohydrates around your period and around ovulation. Now, I’m not talking about that high of carbs either. It’s how I say it in the book is 75 grams, 150 grams of carbohydrates, that’s not high carb. And we’re talking about increasing fruits and sweet potatoes and starches and things like that, like nothing out of the ordinary. But it’s enough to shake things up, like I said, to maintain that proper balance for their hormones.

Dr. Mindy  

Yeah. How important do you think macros are a since you brought it up? Do you think there’s something we use when we first come to these principles? And then we break free from them after a while? Or do you think there’s something we always want to look at?

Dr. Will Cole  

I think that’s a therapeutic tool to use at the beginning to learn about your body and to physically improve your health. So I think a Keto terian or a clean ketogenic diet is a great tool. It works really well in German fasting, they’re both supporting beta hydroxy butyrate. So you’re mimicking fasting, even when you’re not fasting, you’re supporting beta hydroxy, butyrate, and getting a lot of the benefits of fasting without actually fasting. So I think congruently they will they are, they’re exponentially enhanced the benefit of both. But also they make your fast easier, because because you’re eating nutrient dense foods and you’re stabilizing your blood sugar with this food. So just removing ketosis from the from the picture. You’re eating really satiating foods that will make your fast easier as you’re leaning into this. So there are many reasons for this. And so over time, I think as someone gains metabolic flexibility, they can adjust and intuitively adjust their macronutrients. They don’t always have to be in ketosis and I wouldn’t recommend that for the average person. I think it’s cyclical approach is how I advocate it for most people. With that said, Do I think that everybody has to be eating a Killeen ketogenic diet to intermittent fast? No. But I do think that it could be a therapeutic tool to improve how you feel in the short term.

Dr. Mindy  

Yeah. And probably going from the standard American diet, mixing that with fasting, if you combine those two, that might be the most difficult way to fast. Do you know? Yeah, that’s kind of what I’ve seen. Go ahead.

Dr. Will Cole  

No, because your your blood sugar’s all over the place. And what’s that 18 hour window gonna do? It’s like, it’s like, you’re gonna have to really look at what you’re doing. Are you going to see some changes? Probably? Is it? Are you giving your body a break from all the crap and any brought your body’s probably thinking, you know, probably, because you’re giving your body more of a time to repair but I wouldn’t recommend it long term for just someone’s health.

Dr. Mindy  

Right, right. Yeah. Okay, so I’ve got five rapid fire questions for you. But I’m gonna add a sixth one in because I’m curious about this one. So let me start with the sixth one. What if there is like one fasting hack that everybody wants? The one little cool trick that makes fasting easier? Do you have one? And if so, what would it be?

Dr. Will Cole  

Yeah, to come to mind. One is so simple, but I just think it’s important saying is make sure you’re eating enough food during your eating window. Many people make that mistake, they’re just hypocaloric. And then it’s not eating enough. Or they think that fasting equals chronic caloric restriction. No, I want your eating window to be good doesn’t mean that there can’t be a slight caloric deficit. But we’re not dramatically lowering calories during that, that that eating window, so make sure you’re getting enough food. And number two, electrolytes, I think, are talked about a lot in the community, but they’re probably not given enough attention. So I think that blend making sure you’re supporting your body, especially at the beginning with sodium, magnesium, potassium chloride, whether you make your own like saltwater elixir, or you’re buying like a supplement pack. Like I like the LMNT. I’m sure you Yeah, we’ve done them before. Yeah. So I think those can be good and sipping on that throughout the day can be a great way to help your energy levels and you don’t get the brain fog, or like you’re helping to stabilize, just feeling good throughout the day, especially at the beginning. So those are my two

Dr. Mindy  

paths. Yeah, I love that those are both really great. And then the minerals, you know, I never really realized how depleted our soils were until I started teaching people about fasting. And then you start seeing how those mineral deficiencies really reveal themselves. And then you go, Wait, everybody’s got this, okay, if everybody’s has it, what’s missing in our environment? And that led me to regenerative agriculture. It’s just crazy. Sounds so

Dr. Will Cole  

good. Yeah. Look, we let regenerative farmers take over the government. We’d be like, we’d be doing pretty good when it comes to our problems in the world. Yes. My brother is what my brother in law is one so

Dr. Mindy  

Oh, is he? Yeah, I liked that idea. Let’s let them take over the world. And then actually, maybe we’d get out of the pandemic a little sooner because they’d be growing us food that would actually support a healthy

Dr. Will Cole  

Yes. Yeah. Imagine that and the environment

Dr. Mindy  

would be incredible. Okay, you have an awesome podcast. You’ve interviewed a lot of people. What’s the most interesting interview that you’ve done that stands out for you?

Dr. Will Cole  

I talked to so many cool people. I can’t I would love to have you on if you want

Dr. Mindy  

to come? Yeah.

Dr. Will Cole  

I I loved the conversation with Nicola para, holistic psychologist. She’s so smart. I love her so much. She’s so sweet and physical conversation. So I love that about childhood trauma and the impact that could have on people’s health today. Like the impact there’s connection between trauma and autoimmunity and inflammation. I think that that’s really interesting with my work. And in the research around that Elle McPherson was her first ever podcast so I have to get I was excited about that. She had never done a podcast before. So she did it for me. And Gwyneth Paltrow was cool too like the talking about the book. But people within the health health world Nicola pair probably was up there Dr. Caroline leaf neuroscientist, super smart. We talked about toxic thoughts and the impact that could have on our health too. So those are some of my favorites. To me.

Dr. Mindy  

That’s the most fun part about podcasting is you sit back and you go Who do I want to have a conversation with? Yeah, right. And then you could have a conversation with them. So which is really cool. Okay, what is the one book outside of your own book that you think everybody would need to read? Either in the mindset arena mindfulness health but what’s the one book that really changed your life and you think could impact everyone?

Dr. Will Cole  

Yeah, the I honestly think, Nicola para and Caroline leaves work are amazing works and I can’t tell you how many patients since that episode aired sorry, that since the episode aired how many people said I Read that book and it’s changed my life so how to do the work by Nicola para. Dr. Nicola para and then cleaning up your mental mess from Caroline, Dr. Caroline leaf. Those are two amazing books that I would say in that space to, to, to consider reading. I love it.

Dr. Mindy  

Okay, what about when you go to look for I mean we’re all on this journey of health and learning as long with everybody else so when you go to look for somebody that inspires you in the health world that you love their teachings Do you have anybody right now that you find is just really inspiring your health brain?

Dr. Will Cole  

I don’t want to keep going back to the same people but I think Dr. Nicole Barra is doing some really cool things I so I am not just saying that because she’s on them. I think she’s doing some amazing stuff in the health world as far as the mind body connection. Yeah. Because she struggled with with autoimmunity, different inflammatory issues, and she talks about it and dealing with that mental emotional side of physical health. So she’s doing really cool things. I’m so in my bubble.

Dr. Mindy  

Right. I know. I know.

Dr. Will Cole  

I just like I literally I don’t get up from this. I just opposite getting up. I’d see patients 11 hours a day. I’m not the best for that question. There’s so many people doing really cool things. What about

Dr. Mindy  

your dad is your dad? Are you inspire him? Yeah,

Dr. Will Cole  

well, hey, look, it’s a little bit of both. Maybe. But yeah, my dad Of course. Yeah. Yeah. There we go. My dad and Dr. Pompe. I think they’re doing really amazing things, too. And we’re coming out, we talked before we

Dr. Mindy  

talk about just Yeah, talk about your hair product, because I think this my receptors will love this. So I’d love to hear about it.

Dr. Will Cole  

Yeah, so it’s a whole system that really, Dr. Pompa put a lot of legwork. And I’m there to educate and teach people about this science about it, and like the functional medicine side of it, and how these different nutrients work. But largely, that was a passion project from Dr. Pompa. And we’ve all seen clinically over the past years that that hair loss is one of these really sticking points where especially even in fasting community where people can have it, and they’re not properly supported. And they don’t have any direction, or they it’s generally just labeled things like Te or alopecia. And there are that’s normal, and they don’t even get any direction, even though they know it’s not normal. So I think giving people a very comprehensive training, but also the supplements support and even a hair serum a probiotic hair serum that Dr. Bumble worked on. So it’s out now I’m so excited for people to try it.

Dr. Mindy  

Yeah, I’m really excited as well, because that is next to what breaks a fast. And how long should I fast? I probably get my hair’s falling out. What should I do? That’s, that’s definitely in the top five.

Dr. Will Cole  

So yes, 100%, right.

Dr. Mindy  

Five habits that you do every day for your health, you may realize you do it or don’t do it. I mean, you’re working 11 hour days. What are those five habits and and which ones are non negotiable? Like, I’ll always do this. This shows up in my daily habits every day.

Dr. Will Cole  

Yeah. So I would say like, get optimal sleep. That’s definitely I’ll be honest with you. I’m not the best at it. So these are habits I know are important because I know the research and I see patients for a living. So I know that it’s such an important thing. I know for my body intuitively, I need to give myself a little bit more sleep. So that’s something I’m working on. And we’re all works in progress for these things. So I have a lot going on. And sometimes it’s hard for me to wind down so I know all the hacks like I have the blue light blocking glasses. I have the weighted blanket out of the sense Oh, me too. Yeah.

Dr. Mindy  

So do you have a chili pepper? Oh,

Dr. Will Cole  

I don’t I if I needed one I would take it because I recommend the chili bad. Yeah. And people on my team have chili Bad’s but no, I don’t sleep too too hot at night. So. But yeah, I’ve heard the chili pad is a game changer. It’s a game changer. Or like, get hot, the night sweats and things like that. So, sleep optimization, work in progress, but it’s definitely not horrible. It’s just gonna be better. And gratitude practice majorly important to me. And that’s not just one thing that I’m doing it throughout in between talking to patients, I’m using mindfulness practice and gratitude practice. It’s nothing big and fancy and esoteric, it’s just sort of like breathing and checking in with my body and just being thankful being in a state of gratitude towards the people that I’m honored to be a part of their health journey or my team or whatever that I’m thankful for at that time. Eating healthy foods I think is non negotiable for me. So like this stuff that we it’s not even it’s so intuitive to me that I don’t even think of it as a thing but this is definitely a non negotiable I’m just gonna eat healthy foods and it’s just part of my life. So that’s a non negotiable for me. and flexible. Intermittent fasting isn’t non negotiable for me. I just feel so good when I do it. So it’s gonna look different depending on the day, but I it’s part of it isn’t I’m negotiable. And I don’t know if that’s enough. But

Dr. Mindy  

ya know, that works. When that one thought I had this comes up a lot is Where do you feel supplements? Do you think if you have a good lifestyle, and you’re feeling healthy, and you’re on a good track? Do you think you need supplements?

Dr. Will Cole  

Yeah, I do. I think most people could benefit from some now that they would be on a lot. But food is first, just like, Yeah, you can’t fast your way out of a poor diet, you can supplement your way out of a poor diet for either. So I think that people should focus on food as medicine first eating nutrient dense foods. But there’s some things that you and I both know that you’re not even just back to the mineral argument like it’s they’re not getting the nutrient density that we once were. So I think behooves us, even if we are eating healthy foods to supplement some extra things that probably were a part of the food supply at one point, but now are in less amounts. And then also like things like vitamin D, we’re inside a lot. So unless you’re in a loincloth in Miami for 10 hours a day, you probably ought to be vitamin D deficient. And for those people that are have fun, like, go go go for it on South Beach. But the but that I see so many people that are even in Miami that are in Los Angeles, in Texas, in the sunny areas that are still vitamin D deficient because they’re inside. Yeah. So or they’re covered up or they’re wearing tons of sunscreen, which is needed. But sunscreen is needed, but they aren’t getting the vitamin D. Yeah, so. So vitamin D, B vitamins, I think are good things to consider, like a methyl folate, methyl Cabala mean, many people have because of their environment, they’re having these methylation impairments, and the body’s just not methylating very well. So those those are like the two basic ones that most people could benefit from a grade.

Dr. Mindy  

Okay, last question. If you had one message for the world that you could get into everybody’s brain, what would that message be?

Dr. Will Cole  

It’s a true central Cornerstone part of my work part of my work, it’s you can’t heal a body you hate, you cannot shame your way into wellness or obsess your way into health like it to me, it’s just it’s more than a talking point. It is it is a Genesis, it is the genesis of sustainable wellness, because most people, they can come in with like really bad relationships with themselves and with food. And then then they tried to like take something amazing, like fasting, and then abuse it by trying to shame their way out of it or tried to like punish their body with this this fast. So I think that that has to start to be not that you’re going to be a master at this overnight, but start to recalibrate your perspective and say, How can I love my body enough to do things that make me feel good? And avoiding things that don’t make me feel good? Isn’t restrictive itself respect? Yeah, and you like feeling better more than you thought you miss something that made you feel really lousy, and it’s just a bad trade off? Why would you want to bring something in, it’s going to dim your light. So I think that that’s the biggest thing that I wish people got, because that’s freedom. You’re not in a restrictive thing anymore. It’s like, no, it’s common sense. You want to do things that improve your quality of life. And I would say from a functional medicine perspective, do things that improve your labs? Yep. Like your labs aren’t lying. So when I see labs improve over and over again, it’s like we are back to what we earlier said like I believe, like, it’s I believe it’s not a belief, this isn’t a faith that you can actually see the fruit of these amazing tools.

Dr. Mindy  

Yeah, I love that I caught you all the time on you can’t heal a body that you hate, because I think it’s so true and fasting, we take the rigidity of what we did in the eating and we bring it to fasting, which in some sense is even more self damaging. So I love that just creating the mindset so incredible. Well, thank you for letting me pick your brain. Thank you so much for joining me in today’s episode. I love bringing thoughtful discussions about all things health to you. If you enjoyed it, we’d love to know about it. So please leave us a review, share it with your friends and let me know what your biggest takeaway is.