What Do Sex, Sleep, And Wine Have In Common? – With Dr. Carrie Jones

Dr. Mindy
If you’re looking at the first page of the Dutch test, what do you think? I’m gonna put a quiz at you now what do you think? The one hormone that we consistently see low one unexpected hormone that we consistency consistently see low on these women over 40

Dr. Carrie Jones
I was gonna say testosterone.

Unknown Speaker
Yes.

Unknown Speaker
This is why

Dr. Mindy
Okay, why? why I’m gonna say 99% of women over and men to we do some male touch tests are low in testosterone, why?

Dr. Carrie Jones
testosterone women are made in three different places. So it’s made 20 to 25%, the ovaries 20 to 25%, the adrenal glands and the rest is made in peripheral tissue, mostly usually often fat tissue, adipose tissue. So as women are going into perimenopause, and menopause, and their ovaries are actively doing the shutdown, I’m not making hormones thing, then testosterone is the first to drop because testosterone is the first hormone you have to create in the ovaries to create any of the other hormones. So in the ovaries if you want to create estrogen, and then if you want to create progesterone, you have to you have to you have to create testosterone and androstenedione first. Now, women go Hold on, but I have lots of estrogen. As I get like, what’s, where’s all this extra estrogen coming from? Women, we can make it our fat tissue, we can aromatase it in our fat tissue. And so we have other areas behind the, besides the ovaries that we make it so as women are shutting down their ovaries, if they’re not functioning that well we lose 20 to 25% of our testosterone, and then move into our adrenal glands. If we’re not doing so hot in the stress response, and we’re starting to bottom out in burnout. Not only does it affect our cortisol, but it affects our androgen production, as we call it, our testosterone da ga s. Anderson had diagnosed those core hormones. And so we see it a lot women as they get older, it’s a super unfair I don’t even know the right word, biologic prehistoric, crappy thing we got stuck with, you know, and I was joking the other day, I’m not joking. I’m telling the truth. But I joke when I say it is I was on a, I was doing a webinar and I was saying how, you know, women biologically are built or made created to have the babies whether you have babies or not, I didn’t have a baby, you know, like, but my by No, my body is constantly survey like, is it safe enough for a baby? Is it safe enough for a baby? And then for the women who did have the babies, right? You have the babies, and then as you get older, you would think you would think that biology would go congratulations. Thank you for all your service. We’re going to make you svelte we’re going to give you all this energy, we’re going to make your hair long and luscious. We’re going to give you the sex drive of a 16 year old, it’s gonna be amazing. And instead, it’s like thank you for your service. Here’s perimenopause.

Unknown Speaker
Like what?

Dr. Carrie Jones
Yes, and say Actually, we lose.

Dr. Mindy
So we then we lose it and do we ever get it back.

Dr. Carrie Jones
So I have this core group of women. So it’s women are in perimenopause. Because the brain is constantly yelling at the ovaries make a hormone do something. There’s a temporary time where the group of cells that make testosterone they’re called FECA cells, they get sick. And when they get sick, they do kind of like temporarily pump out more androgens. So there’s this crazy weird time period menopause, where women do get more testosterone and then it kind of falls off because you’re losing the cells, you’re losing the Spica cells, and and then once they hit menopause, they don’t really get it back because you’ve lost the ovarian the 20 to 25% part out of the ovaries. And now you’re just relying on your excess tissue all around you in your in your ovaries to make up the slack. So you never make it up necessarily 100% I definitely have women that maintain libido and maintain all these things. To a decent degree. And but majority of women are like, yeah, that left a long time ago. I don’t I don’t have that anymore. I would like more of that.

Dr. Mindy
Yes. So I test this is why I want to start with testosterone. I think I mean, all the hormones impact our behavior, but I feel like testosterone impacts your relationships. And when you start to look at women over 40 what’s happening to women that are in heterosexual relationships, they’re like, you know, that maybe their kids have like, grown up, they’re like off to college that’s stressful, and that, like they’re left at home with their spouse, and now a man’s I want to talk about a man’s testosterone levels here, but his levels aren’t changing. Your levels are plummeting, your progesterone is plummeting, so you’re anxious all the time. And that to me seems like a recipe. you’re gaining weight because you’re estrogen, you’re become insulin resistant. That seems like a recipe for divorce.

Dr. Carrie Jones
I and I hear that from a lot of practitioners who work with the perimenopause, menopause subset of women where they say I feel like if women were educated about perimenopause and menopause, nobody does women men to write but like, doesn’t matter. If you’re homosexual, heterosexual doesn’t matter. I feel like if women were just educated of what happens in the perimenopause, menopause time, we’d probably save a lot of relationships. Now, that’s somewhat tongue in cheek, you know, don’t hold me to that, if you’re in a bad relationship, don’t be in it. But at the same time, women are going through such a transition. And like I said, like we’re not getting luscious hair, and we’re not getting all the energy and we’re not getting, you know, lots of sleep, and we’re not getting the cell body that we were hoping for. And, in fact, we’re getting the opposite. And so it doesn’t. The hormonal shift isn’t exactly ideal for an ideal relationship. And it’s not even our partner relationship. It can be all relationships, how you feel at work, how you interact with your kids, how you snap the person at the grocery store, you know, how you feel about yourself. I mean, it can be really damaging as you make this transition. And what’s even worse is, you know, you write about this is that the transition can be long, you know, it can be long years long years us yeah. Yeah. And and I, you know, and so it’s really like your goal mana my goal. I’m 44. So I’m one of my big goals is explaining to women what’s happening, so they go, Oh, so I’m not crazy. I’m not crazy. Okay. Oh, my gosh, I thought I was going crazy. I’m like, Nope. No, you are not to be helped and tell your partner, tell your partner what’s happening with you so they can have a little understanding of Okay, yeah, like puberty, but in reverse. Mm hmm.

Dr. Mindy
Yeah. But they weren’t with you. When they right. You went through puberty.

Dr. Carrie Jones
Right. Right. Exactly. Exactly. They

Dr. Mindy
don’t know what that’s like. Yeah, I was there. The other day, I was listening to a male expert talk about menopausal hormones, and no disrespect. He definitely had his newest hormones and everything. But I was like, Man, you don’t know until you live it. Like you. It’s like an alien hijacks your brain, and you literally cannot. Like, you can’t get it under control. And it takes that’s why I wrote the book is like it takes a life consistent lifestyle change. But it’s so easy to look outside of ourselves. And be like, it’s your fault. Yeah, it’s your fault. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. And I just I don’t know how we get that out to women.

Dr. Carrie Jones
So I wish and it needs to start young. I mean, I know when we’re all in middle school. Nobody wants to hear about menopause in middle school. But at least if somebody had said, Here, we’re going to explain whatever sex had one to one, we’re going to talk to you about puberty. And we’re just going to throw this at you this thing about menopause, just so when you get older. It’s not going to be a total surprise. You can be like, I think I heard about that when I was 13. Okay, that makes sense. And then just continually sort of updating women, you know, they go for their annual exam, like, Here’s what’s coming up, like, like kids, like, kids go to see their pediatrician, you know, for milestone checkups, like women should do. milestone checkups, like okay, you’re Yeah. 20s. Now, you know, here’s, you know, okay, you’re in your 30s. Now, okay, you’re in your 40s. Now, like, Okay,

Unknown Speaker
thank you.

Dr. Mindy
That could be like an oil, it could be like an oil check. Like, you know, like, we need to have like, Hey, this is the new hormonal phase, like you’re about to get depleted in this hormone. So you might want to pay attention to it. So why on the Dutch test, is there no post menopausal range for testosterone?

Dr. Carrie Jones
So there is now? Well, there’s age ranges. So it doesn’t have the little purple box, but we do have the age range. And the reason we don’t have a true what like an estrogen progesterone, we actually show you the postmenopausal range, because not all women hit that testosterone range of you know, just because you’re over 50 doesn’t mean you’re going to have it doesn’t mean you’re going to have a low testosterone. And whereas when with estrogen and progesterone, we know real consistently, if you if your ovaries are done, here’s what your estrogen and your progesterone looks like. Whereas testosterone doesn’t always follow that same mindset. And so, a and I don’t want to falsely give women the impression that your testosterone is high, just because like you are in your 50s is an example but you have the testosterone of a 30 year old. I’m like, hold on to the hat.

Dr. Mindy
Yeah, right. You know, like, do you take care? Thank you lucky stars every day.

Unknown Speaker
Yes,

Dr. Carrie Jones
absolutely. Now, there’s always of course, testosterone can cause problems and testosterone and estrogen imbalance can be an issue for some women. But to my wit to the women listening who are like, you know what, actually my libido is pretty Good and I’m feeling pretty, you know? Pretty sweet in that department. I’m like, Okay, then hold on to it. You know, like, I’m not going to tell you, oh, you’re too high, you know when, honestly, you feel good. So that’s the only reason that’s the one hormone that

Dr. Mindy
we’re like, I was just hard to hard to categorize it like that. Yeah. So okay, so with testosterone, we’ve got age over 40 is there’s gonna be a natural production we’ve got Okay, so you’re stressed out and your adrenals are making part of your testosterone load. So we’ve got that. Well, what about insulin resistance? Yeah,

Dr. Carrie Jones
does that play a part in this as well. So insulin resistance I feel plays a part. High insulin actually can increase testosterone. But we know that insulin resistance can actually affect so many other hormones, whether it’s estrogen progesterone, cortisol in the brain, that that then makes you feel like you have low testosterone. So insulin resistance and glucose issues can make you feel tired, and it can make you feel moody and it can make you feel maybe unmotivated, maybe not attractive. And so you are like, Look, I’m not in the mood. But you’re thinking, Oh, I must have low testosterone, because I don’t I don’t, I’m never in the mood, right. I don’t have a libido and really, it’s the other hormones kind of killing the switch.

Dr. Mindy
Got it? Okay. And are there foods we can eat to raise testosterone?

Dr. Carrie Jones
Wouldn’t that be nice? I swear, I would just if I knew I would just be like,

Dr. Mindy
What about? What about oysters?

Dr. Carrie Jones
it that it’s the zinc. It’s the zinc and oysters that zinc supportive foods. And what do you do if you don’t like oysters? I don’t like oysters. So yeah, unfortunately, there’s not that I know, that doesn’t you know? I mean, if I told you, I swear, if if it was that simple. I mean, if it was like eat pineapple, your testosterone will go up. I mean, dole had better look out women of the world. Invest. You think bitcoins worth a lot of money? If I told you if it was pineapple?

Dr. Mindy
Let’s do a test. Let’s see. Try it out on your Instagram.

Unknown Speaker
Let’s see what happens. Oh, no, no, no.

Dr. Carrie Jones
Can’t be. Yeah, it’s I get asked though. I mean, I’m sure you do, too. Like, what’s the one thing I can take to raise testosterone? And I tell women as a woman in her 40s, I promise, I would tell you if I knew the secret sauce. I would. I would.

Unknown Speaker
I would

Dr. Carrie Jones
just drop it by the airplane all across the united states all across the world. You know, I swear I wouldn’t hold back. I’m not holding it to myself. Right? I’m

Dr. Mindy
telling you, you’re not like, you’re not like

Dr. Carrie Jones
I know. And I don’t have like boxes of a magic pill over here that I’m like stocked up on? No, I would tell you, it is definitely a combination of a lot of things. And there’s I mean, besides your book, there’s another book that I really like it’s called Come as you are. And it’s Emily Nagurski. And she talks about a lot about hormones to a degree but also, as we were talking like mind, our mind frame around libido and testosterone. And so because I, you know, we get asked is women like, well, how come I used to be ready to go in my 20s. And now I’m 40 or 50. And I’m not ready to go. And like, there’s a big difference in your life. And 50, you were staying up till three, four in the morning, party, your little pants out in 10, your 20s. And now you go to bed at night and think this is so nice.

Unknown Speaker
Right? I get enough water

Unknown Speaker
today. Yeah,

Dr. Mindy
you know your old age. Right?

Dr. Carrie Jones
Exactly. And you’ve got kids and you got a job. And just like you were saying your kids are transitioning, and you’re at the height of your career and you’ve got older parents and you’re, you know, we have a pandemic happening. And, you know, there’s just and and, and, and and it’s hard to be in the mood like men because men have proportionately more testosterone, you know, they would they have a full bucket of testosterone. And we have like, a few drops, you know, comparative, right. And so it’s like, Why are men always in the mood? I’m like, because they literally not all, I mean, I’m generalizing. But stereotypically, when men have robust testosterone, it’s still so much higher than our testosterone. So there’s goes up a little bit in there, like game on an artist goes up a little bit, and we’re still like me,

Dr. Mindy
right? We’re like, maybe,

Dr. Carrie Jones
maybe I’ll think about it.

Dr. Mindy
Kind of the kind of the go to answer. Yeah. So I’ve actually thought about the difference if you just look at how men when they secrete testosterone, compared to women, so if men are are making testosterone every couple of hours, and we get a burst of it in like a small little section while we oscillate. That’s a mismatch right there.

Dr. Carrie Jones
Yeah. And men making an in their sleep. It was men. There was a study where they took just a small handful of men It was a small study, but still they cut their sleep down, I think to five hours a night and they found that just cutting their sleep to five Ours decrease their testosterone 10 to 15% production, kind of, but then when they got their sleep back, when they went back to like eight hours, their testosterone went back up. And so I have women that asked me if I, if I sleep. Well, I get that same effect. I’m like, unfortunately no way. I mean, sleep absolutely helps. But men truly make it in their sleep. And, you know, they that they get this big surge in, which is why they wake up with, you know, should wake up with morning erections because the testosterone is surging, whereas women just like you said, it’s our our surge as well is like, right around ovulation. So our searches two days a month, 30 days a month, right? You know, I mean, we have it all the time. But our search is really biological. It’s to get us in the mood. So if we wanted to be pregnant, we’d be around ovulation and could be pregnant. And then we go back down again. And then we’re like me.

Dr. Mindy
Yeah, right. mismatch she taught like, like, the first concept should about like your perimenopause and how your hormones will change to be taught to 13 year olds, this idea of mismatch, testosterone should be in every pre marital counseling session. Yeah, you think, yeah. Imagine imagination. The heterosexual couples right would be really helpful.

Dr. Carrie Jones
I think so too. Absolutely. And and even even men, not heterosexual couples, if you’re not matched up with your partner, you know, if your wife is not the same as you and and she oscillated a week ago, when you ovulate in a week, like, you’re still like, Great point, you know, not matched up and so it can still be a problem.

Dr. Mindy
Yeah, yeah. Interesting. They need to come up with something called like testosterone sinking. Yeah. Like, like, where, like, would that be cool? Like you could find a way to like, sync your testosterone with your partner’s testosterone and then boom, and then maybe like magic happen?

Unknown Speaker
Yeah, yeah. Could

Dr. Mindy
be. Yeah, on that. I know. I, I have been trying to find the research on intermittent fasting and testosterone. I can’t it’s not it’s not easy to find that new women. Yeah, it’s an urban myth that’s out there. But I haven’t you No, I haven’t found anything that has blown my mind that intermittent fasting will do it.

Dr. Carrie Jones
When you do all your teaching and everything with intermittent fasting. Do you get anecdotal reports? Do you have women report back to you like, Wow, my testosterone went up? That’s great. I don’t hear that. I hear other things bring clarity, energy, maybe some weight loss. But I don’t hear libido. But I guess it’s not my field. So I don’t

Dr. Mindy
know. And we don’t you know, with our resellers, we don’t talk about libido as much because I usually get the menopausal woman who’s just like, help I need my brain to function, right. And I need to drop some weight, and I need my body stop feeling horrible, like, sex is the last thing on our mind. Yeah, but I bet if we asked around, we could probably get some better insight. So I’ll report back. Yeah, I’ll go I’ll go as well, like I

Dr. Carrie Jones
was saying, and you were saying testosterone is not the only hormone I mean, it gets a lot of press. Again, maybe mostly because of men and men’s research towards libido. And they just applied it to women, but with when it comes to female libido, in in, like being in the mood and bonding, and sexual motivation and reward, those are all different hormones. And so you, and we’re as women are very, we’re very hormonally driven, sort of day to day as we move through our cycle. And then as we get into menopause, you know, we kind of lose that cycle part. And so we lose those hormones that do all those other cool things such as bonding, such as love, affection, motivation, we don’t get that trigger as much as we used to. I mean, even estrogen you need estrogen to make serotonin. serotonin czar, you know, classically, just read talk, call it our antidepressant hormone. And so when women go through menopause, and they’re like, why am I more depressed? Because you’re not, you’re actually not making a lot of estrogen. Therefore, you’re not actually not getting the signal to make serotonin and it in you know, like, now you feel more depressed. And since we’re on the subject of libido, like when you feel more depressed, like you surely are in the mood, that has nothing to do with testosterone, necessarily. So.

Unknown Speaker
Yeah,

Dr. Mindy
yeah, no, again, I just see so clearly why so many women in their 40s and beyond, like why relationships fall apart? And it’s a hormone at the root of it is hormones. Oh, yeah. Which is why fixing those hormones. Now you actually have a fighting chance to fix the other problems that might be happening in the relationship, right, though? Yep. Yeah. Okay, so, oh, testosterone and working out. So just what influence does testosterone have on your desire to work out and your ability to build muscle?

Dr. Carrie Jones
I think I think really big, especially because testosterone plays a role in dopamine. And dopamine is our reward hormone in our brain. And so with motivation, when you’re lacking motivation, we often think you’re maybe lacking dopamine and then when you’re In your 40s and 50s, and older and missing out on that testosterone, it’s also possible you’re missing out on that, like dopamine poking and estrogen pokes dopamine as well. So again, it’s a double whammy, you, you’re you stopped cycling, or you’re maybe irregularly cycling and you’re in your 40s. And so you don’t get the estrogen poke for dopamine and then you don’t really get the testosterone to you know, poke and then you’re like, me, I don’t really want to do this. This isn’t really any any fun anymore. Now, once you do exercise, I have a lot of women that report I feel so much better after I didn’t want to, but the act of exercise, right? All the endorphins get released, you feel so much better. You’re working on that lean muscle, and then you do and then you you’re glad you did it. But it’s you make yourself do it. It’s you’ve kind of got to force yourself on like, I know, it sucks. Trust me. Trust me on a cold dark morning. It’s the last thing I want to do. Yeah, I’m like, get on it carry.

Dr. Mindy
Yeah, yeah, I would say at 51. I don’t crave exercise like I did at 31. And I and I missed that craving. I like the where you’re like, I just got to go for a ride. I’ll feel so much better. Yeah, now it’s like, I should go for a run cuz I’ll feel better. But I don’t want to

Dr. Carrie Jones
write and imagine that women who never had that craving to workout, right? There are definite women men too. Who don’t love exercise. Never Loved it. Not fan of it, do it because they have to have to so to speak, or they know it’s good for their heart health or whatever it is bone strength. And now as they get older, they’re like it’s even worse. Like I know.

Dr. Mindy
Yeah. Interesting. Yeah. Okay. And now what about what about toxins? I found an interesting article, as I was putting together this new book on fasting for women. And I found phalates. Yeah, and actually be testosterone like mimickers.

Dr. Carrie Jones
MIT heard that mimickers are killers. That’s

Dr. Mindy
Oh, well, the way that the article said Is it was like a block of blocked like receptor sites for tests.

Dr. Carrie Jones
Oh, right. Right, right. Yeah. Yeah. I have heard that. You heard differently. I have heard no, I’ve heard that. Yep. Yep. So blocking the receptor site, though, means. So if it binds the receptor site, you have two options. One, you just block it, you’re dead in the water, who doesn’t turn it on or do anything or two, it’s is a mimicker. And it binds the receptor site and turns it on. And now you have a testosterone like effect. And so I have red binder in utero. So in in the womb, that these chemicals can really affect how the baby how these receptors get turned on or off as we get older. So women who are exposed to lights as we get older, I’ve actually seen more. One, they can act estrogenic, which is a big problem, right there. endocrine disruptors in our endocrine system is the last thing we need to disrupt. But then I actually see it sort of reduce or reduce the effect or make you feel less. Like you have hormone in the first place. So you feel more depleted of hormone with some of these, like testosterone. Sorry, specifically, testosterone. Yeah.

Dr. Mindy
So what D taught with detoxing, environmental toxins out huge elevate test. Yeah, yeah,

Dr. Carrie Jones
I think so. I think so. And in regards to like estrogen, because their estrogen mimickers, you as a woman may have low circulating estrogen, but these hormones are acting like estrogen. And so they’re turning on receptors in places you don’t want like your breast tissue. And so it’s, it’s not good for testosterone. And then of course, it’s not good for estrogen, either. And so, yes, doing what you can to read labels, you know, start to switch out ingredients start to look at even little things you don’t even realize, like, I mean, we talked about this a lot like storing stuff in glass instead of plastic, right? drinking out of glass and stainless steel instead of plastic candles, you know, air purifiers in or excuse me fresheners in, you know, the things you hang in your car, like these things that we just don’t even think about. And then and then you read about fragrance and how it’s can be an endocrine disruptor and you breathe it in and a lot of people get headaches, why do you get a headache because it’s a chemical that you’re breathing in. And then it’s affecting your estrogen and testosterone. And so it’s, it’s, it can be really overwhelming. So I tell women, you know, just take one thing at a time when you run out of shampoo, start looking, you know, for new shampoo that doesn’t have you know, sodium lauryl sulfate dilates and it’ll say it on the bottle, right? parabens, all this stuff. When you run out of that blush. Look for new blush, right? You know, just start to make when you run out of your kitchen cleaner. Start to look around for the next kitchen cleaner. We’re gonna buy it anyway. So just right when you run out, use the next thing or laundry detergent, right? All right, you may want to go ahead and ditch that car centered thing though.

Unknown Speaker
Sorry, God.

Dr. Mindy
This has come up a couple of times today when you get in an Uber and they have one of the Christmas hanging from the end. You’re like oh man, and then you put on top Have that like if you’re an Uber driver and you’re listening to this, please don’t put your cologne on. Don’t put your Christmas tree on hanging from your your we don’t like it doesn’t it’s not? It doesn’t.

Dr. Carrie Jones
We don’t like it don’t like us, right women’s hormone Manitou men’s hormones don’t like it either. And testosterone surely doesn’t like estrogen. mimicker no man wants an estrogen. estrogen. mimicker Well, that’s, that’s right. I don’t know men, but men who would prefer to stay testosterone dominant would prefer not to have endocrine disrupters, right. Because then they’re like, well, developing manboobs I’m developing a belly and I’m having erectile issues. I’m like, yeah, we can’t have that.

Dr. Mindy
Yeah, exactly. Okay, so I think we beat testosterone. But, but here’s what here’s what I think is like, when I start to put the picture together, I’m like, Oh, my God, like my heart hurts for women over 40. Because I start to see how our hormones is like, set us up for a really rough ride. If we’re not, we’re not aware of it. Yeah. So the second thing that we see so much on our Dutch test are the estrogen metabolites. Oh, yeah. And I find people don’t have enough protective enter estrogen. And they have too much for oae or too much for a wage and 16. And so they have the harmful. So to give us ideas like around the lifestyle, and what is it that makes you have good estrogen protective and what makes you have the harmful ones?

Dr. Carrie Jones
Absolutely. And shameless plug. This is what I’m talking about in my Instagram all month long, because it’s this implied to me. Yes.

Dr. Mindy
I love it. And we have to talk about wine. Yeah, I gotta I gotta pick your brain on why No, that’s, that’s the that is the icing on the cake. You have all these hormones missing, and you just want to drink wine? Yeah. And then you say we shouldn’t?

Dr. Carrie Jones
Well, I know what is, you know, I’m, I drink the occasional wine. Still, too. I’m not totally alcohol abstinent. But yeah. But let’s go back to the hormone part yesterday. So when and this applies to men or women, I tell people, this applies to all genders in all races, because I get asked a lot. The way the basics of detoxification is the same in our body, so you have an estrogen. And then you have to go through phase one, estrogen detox, and then you go through phase two, and then you go through phase three. So it’s a three step process to get rid of it to make it safe enough to eliminate. So in phase one, you have three choices, three pathways, you can go down one is considered less problematic. One is considered the most problematic, and one is considered like, moderately problem, depending how you look at it. So what that and they’re numbered, so the two pathway is the better pathway to go down the four pathway is not the better way to go down. And the 16 is good for bones, but not necessarily good for, for boobs for breast tissue. So I tell women, if we’re trying to divert ourselves down to the two pathway, which is the better pathway to go down, we’re looking at eating the brassica family, the broccoli, the kale, the cauliflower, that’s what we’re looking because inside those vegetables, there is an ingredient called indole, three carbinol i three C and when i three c hit you, when you chew it up the food, you chop it up, you cook, you know, you saute it, and eat it that i three c hit your stomach acid. So stomach acid is important. And it breaks apart. And when it breaks apart, a big constituent is called dim di endomembrane di m dim preferentially pushes you down the two pathway, it activates us nifty little receptor that sort of like shunt you down to the two pathway. And so eating those foods, and in dem are a big or a big way to be helpful. There are definitely some other things there’s foods that contain quercetin quercetin with a Q quercetin we often think of in the natural world and like allergy season, quercetin is in a lot of it’s an anti histamines, anti allergy, but it also helps to push you down the two pathway. And so those are like those are some good like either dietary or supplemental ways for for that for that phase one.

Dr. Mindy
Okay, I have a question, please. Yeah. So what if you want to go carnivore? So if you want to eat you believe and you believe that? veggies in the toxins and vegetables are the devil? Or the devil or the devil?

Dr. Carrie Jones
Yeah. So then we focus on and you should always do this anyway, you want to focus on phase two and phase three preferentially in the beginning, because my analogy is always the same. If you’ve ever heard me talk, I mean you have but people listening. It’s always a clawfoot bathtub, and it’s clawfoot because I’m extra, as opposed to regular bathtub. So the water coming into your bathtub is phase one you can never turn your water off ever your detox is going 20 473 65 so picture a bathtub that’s always running. The drain is your phase two and the sewer line out of your house, either to your septic system or to the city sewer line is your phase three So basically it’s liver, liver, intestinal track, or kidneys, so you’re gonna pee it out or poop it out in your sewer line. And so I tell people, if you’re just constantly adjusting the water of your bathtub, but your drain is clogged, or your sewer line is broken, like you’re gonna have a big fat mess. So if you, you really should focus on gut health first, always, no matter what, because if you are constipated, if you have parasites, if you have inflammation in the gut, that affects how you process estrogen. So if you’re carnivore and you’re like vegetables with the devil, I don’t do this, then you’re still gonna focus on the gut, you’re still going to do gut health stuff, you’re still going to make sure you’re having regular bowel movements, you’re still going to be focusing on getting rid of parasites or Candida or you know, reducing inflammation, because that will always help with your estrogen detox. Your phase two, once we were like looking at your drain, your drain or things, your drain is managed by an enzyme called comp See, empty, a lot of people have had their comp tested it’s normal batch or slow, right? Yeah, we don’t test this, we don’t actually test the snip, you have to do snip testing. But we test we tell you, we give you an idea of if we think it’s fast or slow, depending on how you get from the water through the drain, we test both the water and the drain, we just don’t test the second one. So that’s more vitamins. So we’re thinking like the B vitamins, we’re thinking like b 12, full eight B six. Zinc is a big one. Magnesium is probably the biggest nutrient there, Sam, which is also known as CME, which is a you know, a supplement. And so again, if you’re back to the carnivore example, if you’re carnivore you are maybe if you’re taking supplements as part of your multi or you know, extra magnesium or a B complex or something, then those things will help your phase to work better. And then again, like I said, Now we’re back to phase one, but I don’t ever adjust the water until I’ve got the sewer line connected and open. And I’ve got the drain unclogged, you know I’ve pulled all my hair out of the drain, and then let it flow. And then I focus on phase one. Now, I do get asked especially in menopause, should I should I take him, you know, like I don’t have a lot of estrogen. But I’m worried about breast cancer risk. What do I do? I actually don’t give dim or indole three carbinol to women in menopause because I don’t want their estrogen lower than it is

Unknown Speaker
because it’s usually

Dr. Carrie Jones
menopausal Lee low unless, unless you are working with somebody in oncology, maybe you do a breast cancer, you have a family history you have braca and your oncologist or your functional practitioner who does oncology is saying to you, you need them. I know you’re menopausal, but you need them in that case, then follow their advice 100%. But for the average menopausal woman focus on the drain and focus on the sewer line.

Dr. Mindy
And so the two oh H is the water coming in to

Dr. Carrie Jones
the to the four and the 16. They’re all the water so you can adjust the water all the water, you can adjust your water, the two the four, you can adjust what kind of water comes in. And then you got your two and your four go through the enzyme comped co MT and basically, magnesium and Sammy, Sammy is the methyl donor so called the M and the T and comp stands for methyl transferase it basically helps it’s it’s like a it’s like a it’s like a giver it like somebody hands it a methyl and it turns around and it hands it to estrogen like that’s what it does. And so when it can stay methyl to estrogen estrogen is now neutral base and it can’t cause more damage can’t do anything. It’s actually in some cases protective and and then you can get rid of it out of your body. And so that’s that’s where that’s the drain that’s like Okay, okay, instead of building up in the bathtub, let’s let’s drain you out. And that’s what magnesium helps zinc, the B vitamins those sort of things all help with. Now in there, which I haven’t talked about is your gallbladder the gallbladder health is really clean. Right? So biohealth those a lot of women, especially as they hit menopause, they get gallbladder issues they lose their gallbladder, maybe you lost your gallbladder A while ago. And so if you’re experiencing gallbladder that you know like we there’s a number of foods, I guess, you know, like coline supportive foods. If you’re eating vegetables, artichoke, garlic and onions, you know these things help support beets beets is one of my favorites for for bile and and in the gallbladder. And so these things help just move the sewer line along with these things. Yeah, and I have definitely people do like lemon juice or apple cider vinegar. They’ll take bitters before they eat because all of that helps to prep prep. The stomach acid but to the gallbladder, you know that food is coming in to help with with digestive enzyme production.

Dr. Mindy
And so I it’s helpful, helpful I had read, yeah, I’d read to the gallbladder was also a storage for toxins it is a lot of times, yeah, you got your gallbladder removed because the toxic load got so high, but that so just because it’s out doesn’t mean that your toxic load went down. Right?

Dr. Carrie Jones
Right. And, and you know, gallbladder helps us with fat protein breakdown. And so so many women get their gallbladder out and they’ll go, I can’t I can’t eat this food, though. And I will, I would warn people, I would have united patients who’d have their gallbladder out, for whatever reason. And I would say, look, it’s going to be an exercise in experimentation for the next year to where you’re going to be able to eat a food, and then the next week you’re not, or you’re going to be able to, you know, eat chicken, and then suddenly it makes you nauseous, you’ll have salad and then you can’t and you’ll try steak and it’s not working. But in two weeks from now, it will. And that’s just your body adjusting to the fact that you don’t have a gallbladder anymore, because nobody tells your body when you have an organ or gland removed. Right? We know it consciously. But but it’s, it’s not like, you know, the livers like, Okay, cool. The gallbladder is out. I got this, I’ll make up for it. Like women have a hysterectomy and they have their ovaries removed, like the thyroid and the pancreas and the ovaries are still like, Hello, and where the ovaries Go do your job. Yeah, you’re like,

Dr. Mindy
they’re like picking up sex or let’s do something

Dr. Carrie Jones
and it takes a while for the body to go. Oh, they’re gone. Okay. Okay.

Dr. Mindy
Yeah. Interesting. On the topic of dim, you know, I’m sure you do this, where when you learn a new concept, you’re like, Well, let me try it on me. Oh, totally. We see how, yep, let me see how that works. So I tried that with dim about five years ago, and I’m a believer that if a little bit too good, you should probably take more, because that’ll be a lot better. So I literally over a course of a week was like mega dosing dim by Friday. I was such a hot mess. Hot, like being literal,

Dr. Carrie Jones
hot flashes,

Dr. Mindy
everything crying. I was paranoid. I was irritable, so much so that my husband was like, why don’t you go for a run and come back when I came back? He had made dinner reservations at a really nice restaurant. And he’s like, I think you need something else. And then I realized I traced back and I’m like, Oh, my God. Too much. Damn. Yeah. So Tell, tell us about wine, because I drink out of my wine glass. Yeah, right. Because Okay, let’s go back to this picture of the woman over 40. So she’s missing all these hormones are libidos down, gaining weight. She’s depressed, and a flipping glass of wine. Come on now. It tastes so good. And it’s like that immediate satisfaction. But it’s causing is it causing the problem to be worse? Yes,

Unknown Speaker
it is.

Unknown Speaker
This is what’s so hard. It’s like the cruelest part of the whole story. It is and

Dr. Carrie Jones
so wine alcohol in general, because I women go What about tequila and about, you know, vodka on the rocks with lemon Can I do that instead. And I have a lot of women biohackers who are telling me Well, I can drink biodynamic wine, organic, right, I can drink tequila on the rocks or with some, you know, I can drink vodka and sparkling water and lime and I’m fine. My my blood sugar is fine. But we know it affects sleep. We know it affects your phases of sleep. And at the end of the day, it’s still alcohol, your body still has to process the ethanol through the liver and ethanol stronger in a sense than estrogen and it wins. And so when you are thinking of a funnel, and everybody’s coming to the funnel of the liver at the same time, ethanol will get ahead of the crowd and push estrogen to the back. And so if you have the occasional glass of wine, and this is definitely a hot topic, I’ve women that are like, adamantly you shouldn’t it’s a toxin, you should never and I have others that are like I do it occasionally. You know, it’s, I’m just aware and I take my liver support and I enjoy my glass of wine. And so that’s um, like if you do it occasionally. And it you know, it screws up your sleep and you feel crappy The next day, and you you affect your estrogen. Like you know what you’ve done, and if but if you’re doing it consistently, it’s the consistent women that are like, but I have a glass of wine every night, especially in the pandemic, right? Especially the pandemic I’d have women go home, we were drinking a bottle a night or you know we’re having a glass or two at night and because life sucked and and I didn’t realize the effect it was having on me. It affects your blood sugar and insulin. It’s you know, you’re gaining that weight. It’s affecting your detox independent what alcohol you drink, it can be a toxin, you know, grapes are heavily sprayed. And so you know if you’re not if you are just choosing run of the mill cheap wine because it’s cheap, and it’s you know, Do you like it? It’s, you’re getting all the toxins in it as well when they press when they press the grapes and so then my biohacker friends are like why drink organic, biodynamic wine? I’m like, Yeah, me too. Still alcohol.

Dr. Mindy
Yeah, still alcohol. Okay, so this is my thing cuz I was people. This is why this is the real reason I brought you on the interview again is because I gotta get to the root problem. Yes, wine. So I do all dry farm, biodynamic. And I’m right now wearing a CGM saying, you know, when I Yep. So when I when I drink wine, my blood sugar drops and my Yeah. Okay, so But shouldn’t that be a great thing?

Dr. Carrie Jones
You still have to detox it. So the liver.

Dr. Mindy
Okay, what if I like slap on a castor oil pack?

Dr. Carrie Jones
That’s what I do. I mean, the great thing about being in this field and for the people listening are that like you don’t don’t biohacking addiction. But you but biohack, the occasional right. So when I have when I have my biodynamic wine, then I take liver support. I take more glutathione you know, I take an acetylcysteine I take resveratrol, if I have it. You know, I take like I just be vitamins, electrolytes, like I take all the things I look ridiculous. And what’s even worse. And I will fully admit this to people because I am not perfect. I swallow it with my wife. Because in the moment, I’m like, Oh my gosh, I needed you know, let’s protect everything now. You know, do I drink? once a week, twice a week, maybe two to once a month. It just depends on what’s going on Christmas and the holidays were more than what the January I’m like, and so that’s what I tell women, but you can but don’t biohack and addiction, you know, so if somebody is like, well, I really like two losses a night. And so I’ll just take everything Kerry just said and do a castor oil pack every night to to get around it. It’s it’s not it’s not it’s no, you can’t do that. You got to face the addiction.

Dr. Mindy
So So what I did recently with the CGM, I was like, Okay, well, so this is interesting, because what’s wine doing? It’s relaxing. So really, my blood sugar is high because of stress. So why don’t we go and address that and not have to lean into the wine. Right? That was my takeaway from from seeing that.

Unknown Speaker
And itself. It’s

Dr. Carrie Jones
common. I was watching a webinar of I forget, I wish I remember who it is to give him credit. And he was showing us the CGM of a like a professional bodybuilder like a day in his life or something. It was it was hilarious because the bodybuilder had written down everything on his day. Do you know you know, you can like enter in what you’ve done. See with this, because the spikes, and he had won some competition. This bodybuilder did. And he was like he started out, you know, with massive copious amounts of champagne. And then he did you know, and then he had a steak dinner. And then he had cake and then he had edibles. And then he had more champagne. And it was really interesting to watch the roller coaster. But the champagne and that’s the speaker was saying that it’s common alcohol will help improve the insulin response and then it can drop sugar. No, I don’t. When I drink biodynamic wine, I don’t have a problem sleeping but my I wear an aura ring also. My aura ring stats aren’t as good. My heart rate variability goes down, which is a bad thing. And my heart rate goes up which is wine does that it makes your heart rate go up, which is not good either. But what I don’t drink biodynamic when I have just regular, like, if I have a glass of wine in a restaurant, then I don’t sleep that well. And my HRV goes down and my heart rate goes up. And so it’s the toxins. It’s completely completely. It’s a big difference. Sugar. Yeah, it’s a big difference. So So, and I like wine and people like well Drink, drink tequila carry or vodka, like, well, I like wine. Just like some people like whiskey and some people like beer. I like wine. So yeah, that’s the difference. Great.

Dr. Mindy
Okay, okay, that’s helpful. Okay, last question. Cuz I want to I want to respect your time. Yes.

Unknown Speaker
We could talk all day.

Dr. Mindy
So right before your cycle, so we’re all in my office, and my resellers are either doing the aura ring, or we’re doing whoop, whoop. And what we’re noticing is that week between day like day 21 to day 28, our recovery is crap. So is that because of maybe potentially we have too low of progesterone. I mean, despite doing all the right things, right, we don’t seem to recover. Well, in that period. Is there an expert hormonal explanation for that,

Dr. Carrie Jones
my guess would be the shift in estrogen and progesterone, especially if progesterone, just like you said is lower. Yeah. Now you would think because in the follicular phase progesterone is naturally low, but you have a lot of estrogen in that follicular phase right. And then in the in the in the second half in the luteal phase, you have estrogen just not as much as you had during the rise in the surge in the follicular phase and on top of it, you’re supposed to have all this progesterone. And if you don’t is a woman then it could cause problems.

Dr. Mindy
Okay, so the other trend we see on our Dutch tests, a lot of low melatonin. Yeah. Hello, meloetta. Yeah. So is there anything we can do for women help women as they go into that, especially perimenopausal women who might get a cycle every 60 days and would love some extra sleep? Is there anything we can do to help her sleep? Yeah, during this time, so

Dr. Carrie Jones
Melatonin is primarily made in the gut, believe it or not, but it’s the melatonin in our brain and the pineal gland that helps with the sleep. Melatonin is made from serotonin. So it’s after you make serotonin, you make melatonin? Well, if you don’t have the estrogen in the first place, and you’re struggling to make serotonin, you’re going to struggle to make melatonin. But Melatonin is really really, really reactive to light and dark. And so I tell women especially as they get older, you have to be diligent about either wearing your blue light blocking glasses at night, dimming the lights winding down, getting off your phone, turning off your TV’s reading a real book, not an E reader per se. And and because you want the darkness effect and then in the morning, again, we’re just trying to help our circadian rhythm. You want that full spectrum light effect. So going outside, you know, seeing light in the morning or the start of sunrise or fake it by a full spectrum light box. They’re not that expensive. They’re 20 or 30 bucks online and turn it on in the morning for 10 or 20 minutes and so I have a box well minds It looks like a tablet on a little kickstand and I just I found I have no affiliation. I found it on Amazon I read all the reviews. It was good enough for me and I have it my kitchen so that when I feed my dog and I make my tea and I get my water and I connect my aura ring checked myself, right I do all the things it’s like right there and so it’s all it’s you know, it’s like I i ish and so I’m getting that that lightness if it’s if it’s dark. Now the other thing for melatonin obviously you can take melatonin if you know that’s an option with melatonin, physiologic production of melatonin which means normal level How much do you normally make is quite low Believe it or not? It’s point three 2.5 milligrams and yet what’s out there on the store? 135 milligrams so we might be over melatonin in ourselves for those women who use it. So for the perimenopausal woman, I’m like who needs it? Occasionally? I’m like, yeah, it can be. Really it can be really helpful. With Yeah,

Dr. Mindy
but we see that too. Yeah. And Dutch test. Like these melatonin lines. They’re like huge and you’re like, Whoa, what’s going on? turns out they’re supplementing. Yes. So

Dr. Carrie Jones
when you supplement, when you swallow it, it goes through what’s called first pass. So anything you eat, breathe, drink, or swallow has to go through the liver first for for a check. And then at the end and the liver breaks it apart so we can deal with it. And when it breaks it apart, they’re called metabolites. When melatonin breaks apart, it forms 1000s and 1000s and 1000s of metabolites so it doesn’t mean a person’s necessarily on too much. It just means the liver is doing its job. So the Dutch test is absolutely a baseline melatonin check it’s not a mmm too much check just because of this thing called first pass. So yeah, and there’s a number of like calming images, you know, right there’s, there’s things you can do at night for relaxation, right, like holy basil is skullcap and passionflower and phospho title serien and magnesium and kameel. And you know all these wonderful things that just help relax the body relax the mind relax the muscles and to and as you’re doing the wind down and being in the dark to help you go to sleep and status, stay asleep hopefully.

Dr. Mindy
Yeah, we have my husband and I have a pack that like after eight o’clock we can’t talk about anything controversial. Because it was winding me up so much that I could not get myself to go asleep and it was horrific.

Dr. Carrie Jones
which actually is a good point to bring up is that you know during the pandemic especially I mean not that we’re not out of it but in the beginning everybody was at home watching Netflix and so everybody was watching Tiger King and they were watching serial killer shows and I and I’m I don’t want to you can’t sleep you’re watching the all these who done it is scary and they’re watching like all these documentaries came out that were maddening, good documentaries, but they’re, you know, they stood for something good but it made you mad right watching it and they made you ended And so am I going gosh, you can’t sleep because your bed freaking out or indignant or you know discussing something or you know, wanting to watch the next episode, but you know you shouldn’t and so you just be mindful of that.

Unknown Speaker
And I’ve,

Dr. Carrie Jones
I’ve told more people that they’re like, Oh, you know what, you’re right. And everything’s coming out online now. Right? HBO, Disney plus, Netflix, everything’s got pushed to online. So when all these shows people are binge watching their favorite show. And suddenly, it’s midnight, one in the morning, and then they can’t figure out what they don’t feel so great the next day. Yeah, they’re completely stimulated and like what’s going on? I’m like, because you just binge watched. Yeah, whatever show you know, shits Creek the whole night long. Like,

Unknown Speaker
you can’t do that.

Dr. Mindy
The only one I can binge watch and go to sleep.

Dr. Carrie Jones
Well, that’s, that’s true. For sure. But like when you’re on your bright TV, if you’re that sensitive, you know, then it could be a problem. So at least watch it with your blue light blocking glasses.

Dr. Mindy
Yeah. Okay, I’ve got five five questions specific to you rapid fire that never gonna let you go. And I so grateful for your time. Okay, if there was one person of influence right now and influences sort of a obscure term, but one purse person in the world right now of influence that you could sit down and have a conversation with? Who would it be? And what would you want to talk to them? Oh,

Dr. Carrie Jones
oh, my gosh, a person of influence that I would want to talk to you honestly. It’s, I mean, it’s I mean, I know you said like influence. But honestly, it’s the author that author of that Come as you are Emily Nagurski, because I would have a whole lot of libido questions for her, just to help women I don’t know where and I would love to sit down and talk to her like, let’s can we can we have a better conversation about this. And she also wrote the book burnout. And so just as a, just as an educator, and as an author, I would love to know more, just to help women more,

Dr. Mindy
you should go find her. I’m sure she’d love to chat with you.

Dr. Carrie Jones
I’m going to talk about her book all the time. So

Dr. Mindy
I should we have that with Libby Weaver? Who wrote Russian woman syndrome. Go read her book. Amazing. And I She is like another hormone hero. We just got confirmation. She’s gonna come on my podcast.

Unknown Speaker
How cool is that?

Dr. Mindy
I know, it’s like, you know, some

Unknown Speaker
people want to

Dr. Mindy
have you know, the like Britney Brown. I want rushing woman syndrome author. Then I’ll take Britney,

Dr. Carrie Jones
Britney would be a great one to talk to you. I know there’s so many took, but I was like, Who can I actually who could I actually sit down? Like that’s more likely? Well, it’s probably more like,

Dr. Mindy
Okay, if you’re on a desert island, and you can only bring one biohacking tool. What would it be? Oh, honestly, it’d

Dr. Carrie Jones
be my noise cancelling headphones. Oh, really?

Dr. Mindy
But you’re on an island. You might not

Dr. Carrie Jones
hear anybody. Well, that’s true. But yeah, so I so I don’t turn the I don’t turn them on at night. But I honestly sleep with noise canceling. Some people use earplugs. I sleep with noise cancelling headphones on and it’s made a world of difference in my sleep. I mean, I’m sure your plugs too. But my ears start to itch after a while. And so I switched headphones, and that’s made a world of difference. For my for my sleep.

Dr. Mindy
Oh, what did it what brand?

Dr. Carrie Jones
I think they’re both? I think they’re just the Bose You know? And the reason I got into them was I just traveling so much for Dutch. I literally will I used to back when you could travel the world for Dutch. So I’m always on airplanes. And I was always I can sleep on airplanes, but I always have my noise cancelling headphones on and then I’m in a hotel strange hotels. And I’m like, you know what, I’m just gonna write sleep with these on and see how it works and it and now even at my house. I sleep with them on and it works great.

Dr. Mindy
Okay, I gotta try my I use a fan app. I turn this app on. That’s a fan. And I just and it just cancels everything out and but that could be even better.

Dr. Carrie Jones
I do have the Uhler. Speaking of biohack do you so I do have an Uhler and I do love that it would be an expensive biohacking tool that I bring on my if I got stranded on an island, but it is so people ask me like, Oh, do you like it? Do you think it’s worth it? And at first I was like, man, I don’t know.

Unknown Speaker
And now I’m obsessed

Dr. Carrie Jones
obsessed, because I get cold at night in it, you know, the cold here and so in the winter, so when I bought it, I like it’s like nice and toasty when I get in. And then and then I turn it down. And then I sleep really well. And then in the morning I have it on warm wake up. So all of a sudden I’ll feel really warm. And I’m like,

Dr. Mindy
oh, and then you can’t get out of bed. I just got one. And I actually am going to do an episode on it because I wasn’t able to sleep in the same room as my husband because he was loud and he was moving around and I wasn’t sleeping It was me too. I wasn’t sleeping well. The ruler is allowed me to come back into bed with my husband, which is amazing. And because we can regulate the temperature and then if I get the noise under control, everything works. But that coolness underneath me as a 51 year old menopausal woman is like it’s heaven. So I’m a big fan. So yeah, okay, best book you read in 2020 atomic habits.

Dr. Carrie Jones
I thought I had it in here. It was atomic habits by James clear. I thought I had it in here. Oh That was my favorite in that I read. Like I always got really into personal development mindset stuff, and I highlighted so much out of it. So yeah, that was my favorite.

Dr. Mindy
Okay, cool. Red wine or white wine.

Dr. Carrie Jones
I do red wine usually, but I do white wine and allergy season because if I get I have environmental allergies in the spring and so in red wine can set off a histamine response. So I biohack so if I’m if it’s springtime, and I’d like a glass of wine, I do a chilled white wine, dry wine because that I don’t get the histamine response like I do with red and allergy season. Beautiful.

Dr. Mindy
Beautiful. Okay, last question. If you have a message for the world, if you could implant one thing into everybody’s brain, especially right now, what would that be?

Dr. Carrie Jones
So it’s, I say it well. I have two one is one is healing happens in joy. So there was a wish I forget. Remember, her name is terrible c 44. She was talking about vibrational levels. And she said healing happens at the vibrational level of joy. And I was like, that is brilliant. So finding joy spreading joy, being joy reading about joy is a journal about I one of my statements when I journal, healing happens at joy, I am joyful. And so that’s what I tried to focus on. But the second thing that’s more of a biohacker thing I said earlier, it’s the light and dark thing. So we have clocked genes in our brain and clock like the clock in your wall dictate in our human body, our rhythm in a day, right. And so our rhythm in a day, we are 24 hour human beings, but our collections are a little longer than that they’re a little bit more than 24 hours. So we have to set a clock gene with light and we fix or reset a clock gene with darkness. That’s how we do it. And so for all the people listening if you have rhythm issues, sleep issues, energy issues, reproductive issues, cycle issues, you have to reset your clock gene and you do it it’s free and easy. Like sleep in the dark. Get off your light bright stuff at night wind down and in the morning get try to get some lightness and brightness into your eyes and do it consistently. And it helps with rhythm. So

Dr. Mindy
ah That was incredible. Okay, I over overstayed my my interview here so I just want to thank you again I your Instagram is incredible. You can tell you do it as as a passion project but yeah, but we’re all learning from it. And thank you for letting me pick your brain. You are my hormonal hero. So thank you so much appreciate you yes anytime Of course.

Unknown Speaker
Thank you.

Dr. Mindy
Haha Have an awesome day.