This episode is all about how effortless intuitive fasting can be and how we can use mindset tools to approach a fasting lifestyle.
Dr. Will Cole is a leading functional-medicine expert who consults people around the world via webcam and locally in Pittsburgh. Named one of the top 50 functional-medicine and integrative doctors in the nation, Dr.Cole specializes in clinically investigating underlying factors of chronic disease and customizing a functional medicine approach for thyroid issues, autoimmune conditions, hormonal imbalances, digestive disorders, and brain problems.
He is the bestselling author of Ketotarian, The Inflammation Spectrum, and the New York Times Bestseller Intuitive Fasting in which he shows how to use the powerful benefits of flexible intermittent fasting to gain metabolic flexibility and find food peace.
Dr. Cole is the host of the new podcast The Art of Being Well, and has co-hosted the popular podcasts goopfellas podcast and Keto Talk.
In this podcast, The Art of Intuitive Fasting, we cover:
What Is Intuitive Fasting?
Intuitive fasting brings mindfulness practice to fasting. It uses fasting as a meditation to set you up to feel your best. It’s essential to check in regularly with your body, energy levels, digestion, and health goals. As you are fasting, you start to learn a new relationship with your body. It’s an introspective exploration of our health, our body, and their combined relationship. Plus, intuitive fasting is growing that mindfulness muscle. Your mindfulness muscle is vital because metabolic flexibility on a physical level is the foundation for more mindful eating and intuitive fasting.
It can be good to find a community, and being part of a diet community can help many people clean up their lifestyle and start their path to feeling better. However, people tend to get very tribal about whatever community they are in. Dr. Will Cole says this is ok as long as people are still willing to be open-minded and ok with pivoting and evolving. If it gets to a point where they think something else might work better for them, they need to make that change. Also, we need to focus on our similarities. We all agree that processed, refined stuff isn’t good. So let’s focus on that. Then the details of the types of macros or the types of foods that we eat should not create such toxic tribalism.
What Breaks a Fast?
What breaks a fast? This is the age-old question. You’re never going to get an agreed-upon answer on this. Dr. Will Cole thinks that there’s a spectrum, a gradient of things on the side of a pure fast and getting all the benefits. Then, there’s an area of fasting, mimicking things that give you benefits of fasting, but you could be downregulating some of the positives. However, you’re not canceling out your fast; you’re not breaking your fast. Things that break the fast are eating something that can considerably impact insulin or digestion. The safest bet when fasting is water or liquids that don’t have any calories, which most coffee and tea can fit into that category.
Differences in Fasting for Women
Reducing women into one group is an old-fashioned thing. Saying fasting is not suitable for women is very reductionist; you need to ask, “who is she?” and “how is she fasting?” Those are two fundamental questions. What a woman is going through in her life, how fasting interplays with her health, and where they are in their health journey will look different for everyone. This is where intuitive fasting comes into play because checking in with your body is so important.
Therapeutically, the average menstruating woman could do moderate fasts for a while and get good things out of it. But then they’re going to hit a maintenance mode, where leptin starts coming down, and inflammation starts coming down, the guts improving, and the blood sugar is more balanced. At that point, their metabolic flexibility is improving. So, they’re going to have to do more of a cyclical fast around their menstrual cycle. But not everybody will hit that maintenance mode so quickly; some can go months and months just getting the fantastic therapeutic benefits from the intermittent fast. This is where everyone is different and why intuitive fasting is so necessary.
Dr. Will Cole 0:00
can’t heal a body you hate you cannot shame your way into wellness are obsessed your way into health like it to me, it’s just it’s more than a talking point it is it is a Genesis, it is the genesis of sustainable wellness.
Dr. Mindy 0:12
I am a woman on a mission that is dedicated to teaching you just how powerful your body was built to be. I like to do that by bringing you the latest science, the greatest thought leaders and applicable steps that help you tap into your own internal healing power. The purpose of this podcast is to give you the power back and help you believe in yourself again, my name is Dr. Mindy Pels. And I want to thank you for spending part of your day with me. On this episode of the resetter podcast, we go back to my fasting ribs. So you guys are in for a treat this next episode, I got to pick the brain of Dr. Will call. Now if you’re not familiar with will call he just put out a book New York Times bestselling book called intuitive fasting. Now I want to give you a little behind the scenes on intuitive fasting when I you’ll hear it in this in this interview that when I first heard the title, I thought that is brilliant, because there is a very intuitive part of fasting that nobody’s really talking about. And when it comes to fasting, we really need to be more in a cycling of fasting and not a rigidity of fasting. So absolutely loved it. Now, ironically, and you’re going to hear us talk about it. In this episode, he got a lot of backlash for the title of this book from many of the different eating disorder communities, and people who felt that his concept around intuitive was too difficult to achieve. Now, what you’re going to hear in this episode is how effortless intuitive fasting can be, you’re also going to hear what a gentle kind Manny is and how we can use mindset tools, how we can listen to our inner voice when we approach a fasting lifestyle. We also go into some of my favorite questions I get asked all the time about fasting, what breaks a fast, what’s more important what you eat, or when how long you fast? What does it matter if you mix your fasts up? Do men and women need to fast differently? I mean, you we went into it all. And it was a really fun discussion for the two of us to have because we both have large communities that are practicing these principles. And I just enjoyed my time with him. And I think you guys that are fasting are going to find some incredible knowledge here to take your fasting to another level, I think you’re also those of you that are new to fasting are going to find some really easy ways to approach a fasting lifestyle. So doctor will call and we’re talking everything you need to know about intuitive fasting, if you’re not familiar with him, he is the best selling author of keto terian, which we do talk about keto and vegetarian in this. And he wrote a book called the inflammation spectrum. So enjoy doctor will call.
Hey, resetera is hopefully you all know, I’ve been thinking deeply about the world’s immune system lately. I really feel like as we entered into 2020, we had a world full of immune compromised people. And we just weren’t really aware of that. And so I’ve been looking for the last year for products that are going to help support our immune system. And once again, Organa phi has delivered, they have a new product called immunity, and it’s a powder. And the beautiful thing is that it’s keto friendly. And let me explain this because they have a lot of the nutrients that many of us before we came to the ketogenic diet, probably lean towards some juices like orange juice. I mean, I don’t know about you, but I grew up in the family where you had a glass of orange juice in the morning to support your immune system. Well, just because orange juice spikes your blood sugar doesn’t mean that there aren’t nutrients in it that will help support a healthy immune system. So what Organa phi did is they came up with a powder that is keto friendly, has all the nutrients that you would get in orange juice and many other juices that nature can provide us, but you don’t get the sugar. So it’s called immunity. It’s amazing as far as the taste goes Organa phi has nailed the taste and you can get 20% off by using the coupon that we love to share with you and Organa phi has so generously given to my community it is Organa phi.com forward slash pills and that is Organa phi. Let me spell it for you, o r g a nifi.com forward slash Pels, P e LZ. And they will give you 20% off, let me know what you think. I really love this concept of intuitive fasting. And I would love to hear your description of it. Because I can tell you and teaching fasting to my community, we really don’t have a good sense of what intuitive means when it comes to food, or no fit.
Dr. Will Cole 5:24
Yeah, yeah. So I mean, it’s a concept that’s born out of my clinical work of really bringing a mindfulness practice to fasting and using fasting as a meditation is, and is a mindfulness practice. So it is, when I wrote the book, it’s just was me trying to convey in literary form, what I see clinically really worked for people is to what I call an a book, I call them metaphysical meals. It’s like checking with your body, check in with your energy levels, your digestion, your health goals, whatever they may be your brain function, and bring in Acts of stillness in your life, as you’re fasting to start to learn, like have a renegotiate your relationship with your body, because there’s so much training, there’s so much indoctrination, when it comes to food, and how we use food and our bodies and how we feel about our bodies. So it’s an exploration introspective exploration about our health and our body and the relationship of, of those over the course of the book. So I take walk people through this experience, this protocol of learning about yourself of learning about your health, while at the same time building metabolic flexibility. And but also growing in that mindfulness muscle, which I think is really important, because metabolic flexibility on a physical level, is from foundation for, for more mindful eating, and intuitive fasting, not because you’re restrictive, or it’s disordered eating. But you can go longer without eating when you’re more metabolically flexible, because your blood sugar is more stable, because you’re more metabolically flexible. So intuitive, fasting will be an outpouring of that, the more you get into the rhythm and the art of this, of learning about your body. But they also will have grown the mental, emotional, spiritual side of it as well. So I think the physical stuff’s important to build because if someone’s metabolically inflexible, it’s really fasting will be anything but intuitive. It’ll, it’s paradoxical on purpose. That’s, I mean, it’s, it won’t be intuitive. But the more you metabolic flexibility you have, there will be a beautiful rhythm that you build for yourself over time. And it takes time, it takes time, it’s not a quick fix. But that mental emotional side of it is really important too. Because that way, you can see what’s serving you and what’s not serving you. And it’s okay to be gentle. Some days, you may plan for that 18 hour fast, so that on that day, and you just show up for yourself and say no, I’m gonna, I need a 1212 I need like, just the basic day of just refeeding and taking it easy. So there’s that analogy that I use in the book is sort of this proverbial yoga class for your metabolism. As somebody starts out yoga, at the beginning, yoga won’t be intuitive yoga will be very unnatural, because maybe the person’s inflexible, seems to with someone’s with metabolic inflexibility, fasting will not be intuitive. But they, when they start getting flexibility on a metabolic level, just like that yoga becomes a practice, this fasting will become a practice and art where you can ebb and flow and show up for yourself. Because you feel great doing these things that really serve you.
Dr. Mindy 8:28
Do you think it’s hard to learn that like week, one of the things I mean, my kids are grown now. But when when my kids were little, I really got a sense of what an outside in world we live in, and that we have really been taught. If you’re not feeling good, put something from the outside in. If your kid is not feeling well, you got to take a medication at the end and put something from outside in. And we really haven’t been taught even though we come pre programmed with this intuition. Do you think society knocks it out of us? And it’s hard to untrain? What society has done?
Dr. Will Cole 9:01
Yeah, I think that that it’s probably always been a human issue, right with with the way that we live our lives throughout history. But I think now more than ever, we’re so divorced from our roots, and we’re so divorced from checking in with their body. But people think just because something’s common, they equate that with being normal. ubiquiti doesn’t necessarily equate with normalcy. And many people are so divorced from what’s even normal. It’s interesting. I started out the book with a quiz so they can kind of learn and be more introspective about their body. And that quizzes as is our questions that I adapted from questions I asked patients, so it’s interesting how many times as a clinician when I’m consulting patients, or people say, Whoa, like, I thought that was normal. And just like, I thought that was just me. I thought that and then they have this realization of saying, I was settling for not feeling good, just because I thought that was a way it was quote unquote, normal. It’s really amazing to see people check in with themselves. And I’ve Yeah, I agree with you like, overall, we are, we don’t realize like what our body’s ability to do, where it’s not always adding more stuff from the outside in. Sometimes it’s allowing a body the chance to regulate things from the inside out, yeah, tap into these pathways that are lying in a slumber in dormancy, and we haven’t given our body the chance to do what it’s capable of.
Dr. Mindy 10:29
Yeah, I mean, to me, that’s what I love about fasting is it you can, you can take a person who is dubious, and doesn’t believe in the healing power of their own body or hasn’t been educated, and you start to teach them how to fast and you reconnect them with this intelligence, they didn’t even know they had it, and they don’t have to believe in it. You just have to show them the way. And the body does the rest.
Dr. Will Cole 10:54
Yeah, you’re absolutely right. It’s so funny that when people say about any one of these tools that we have within health and wellness and functional medicine, they’ll say something like, Well, do you what do you do you believe in it? Or do you believe in this? Or do you believe in fasting? Do you believe in healthy, like, this isn’t a faith? This is just like, it’s just you just, it’s just a matter of belief and unbelief school? Try it? How does? How does it serve you give your body the chance to lean into these pathways. But it’s isn’t it? You’re right, it’s you’re going to notice it in your life. You don’t have to believe in anything. You’re just going to see it. The evidence will speak for itself.
Dr. Mindy 11:30
Yeah. Which is what is so incredible. So okay, so what does intuitive fasting look like? Because the other question that I had when, when I read your book first came out, I thought to myself, okay, well, there’s these days when I don’t really want to fast, but I know it’s 10 o’clock in the morning, and I know, Hey, I got it, I’m not gonna be able to get to some food till maybe two or three this afternoon. And if I just sit tight, ketones are gonna kick in, I go along my way, by two or three in the afternoon. I’m not hungry anymore. My body’s in a rhythm. So when you have those moments where the body’s like, eat or eat chocolate cake, or eat something is that how do we distinguish between what’s intuitive in the moment, and what’s just my mind telling me, Hey, I need a state changer.
Dr. Will Cole 12:19
That’s a big part of the conversation of the book, because it’s really nice for us to say, I am intuitive eater, or like even saying I’m mad, I call the book intuitive fasting, it was paradoxical on purpose. Because if someone’s in the throes of stress, right, if they’re stressed out, or they have a lot going on in their life, or physiologically, if they have blood sugar imbalances, and, you know, hormone imbalances, or hangry nests are insatiable cravings, if they’re stuck in that sugar burning mode, if all of that stuff will disguise themselves as your intuition. So I want people to grow in the mindfulness side of things, and grow in the metabolic flexibility side of things, to have that awareness on what worked for them, and what doesn’t work for them. So that goes back to that art and practice of really learning about your body, and evolving. And at the beginning, I want people to follow the protocol and the book to learn that art of yourself and learn that rhythm of your body and what’s serving you and what’s not, that are learning about yourself won’t happen overnight. So I want people to cycle through that protocol as many times as they needed to, to start to improve their health on a physical level, ie flexibility, metabolic flexibility, which is that foundation for intuitive, mindful eating, but also growing in that mindfulness awareness. So every day is going to be slightly different. So there are days like you said, Well, you know, if you lean into that deeper fast in the morning, you’re gonna feel fantastic. But you have the awareness to know that you can you have that awareness to say, look, that initial hangry ness or that initial craving isn’t really going to serve me. And you have the agency over your health, not in an obsessive restrictive way. But in a real what I call in the book food peace, you have this governing piece that allows you to to make that rational, logical, aware of decision for your body. Many people aren’t at that point, you know, this, but like many people are just sort of completely enslaved by their cravings and enslaved with with their hangry ness, and they confuse that stuff for themselves. Or and then even today, with the movement that’s happening on social media with the intuitive eating community. They’ll call that their intuition. I mean, hungriness is not your intuition. I mean, and blood sugar volatility is not your intuition. You can make it sound nice. You can put a nice filter out on Instagram, but when you look at labs and look at somebody’s quality of life, it’s really not anything intuitive, because your intuition is never going to lead you towards a unhealthy body. It’s just never going to do that. So your intuition is going to want to preserve you and make you feel healthier and vibrant and make you live the most vibrant life. You can live. That’s really the conversation that I’m having in the book is I wanted to have an authentic conversation about this idea of intuition and food and fasting. But to have that we need to talk about the health stuff. And I think that it’s good for people to use that protocol at the beginning to start to learn about themselves. But then later on, they can evolve that and the protocol will look different intuitively, as we are all different. We all are different,
Dr. Mindy 15:24
right? How long do you think it takes if you’re somebody who has been I mean, I’ll use myself as an example. My mom was the classic, you had a rough day, you’re not feeling good. Let’s sit down and have a meal. And so I learned over the years that if you’re not feeling good eat, so when I came to fasting, that was really hard to undo. Because what did I do when I wasn’t feeling good? Now, when I first learned fasting, I could have said, hey, it’s really intuitive right now, I’m not feeling very well, I’m gonna need to break my fast. How long do you feel like it takes to get the rhythm? I mean, I know what it did. For me, it took me and are there tools to help us bridge that place from where we used food to soothe our souls, to really tapping into the intuitive part of us.
Dr. Will Cole 16:15
It depends on our starting point. I mean, I know as a clinician, when I’m meeting people at so many different points of their health journey, some people I’ve been at this for a while, and then are doing some good things that are improving their, their awareness of body awareness and their metabolic flexibility. Some people are not at all, so depends on your starting point. But that’s part of the reason why I put the quiz in the book. So they can retake that quiz to kind of check in with their improvements. And maybe after every cycle of the four week protocol, take it again, and you’ll see your score come down. And that’s a sign that metabolic flexibility is rising, your your health is rising. So I would say the average person, I mean, after one month, I want to see considerable changes moving in the right direction, after two to three months of cycling through, I think you should be solidly more aware of your body. That’s typically the sweet spot, not everyone’s going to be 100%. And that time, because we know this is a journey for for life, but you’ll continue to at least evolve to the place of evolving the protocol for yourself. Because you’re gonna be able to experiment each week is a different type of fasts with a different type of like goal that we’re trying to achieve or support. So after two or three
Dr. Mindy 17:28
psychos on Yeah,
Dr. Will Cole 17:30
I really find that most people will say, Oh, I felt really good doing this, I’m gonna do more of that, I’m gonna do less of that. It didn’t work for me right now. So that will evolve that protocol for themselves. It won’t, it won’t be a protocol, it’ll just be their life. And then what what’s important for people to realize is what serves you today isn’t necessarily what’s will serve you forever and ever. So it’s okay to pivot and evolve. Even as you lean into these practices. That’s the art of it all, is that you’ll be able to say, well, maybe that’s this certain fastest omad work great for a season, but that season has passed, I need to like do something else. So I want people to be okay with adjusting things and being flexible with themselves. Because these are all amazing, beautiful therapeutic tools that will will be dynamic as your health is dynamic and your situations externally change to
Dr. Mindy 18:19
Yeah. Do you think there’s one fast that the human body benefits from the most? Hmm,
Dr. Will Cole 18:25
no, I think that there, I what I love about the vertical in the book and a conversation that I and having in part is variability. I think variability is a very powerful tool to keep people from being stagnant and that metabolic flexibility, because I find that like these deeper fasts and can be great therapeutic tools for some people, but then they do it for months and months and months and months and never deviate. And then they think, well, this isn’t working for me, like it used to work for them. So sometimes it’s counter intuitive, especially for that, like the fasting aficionado is to like loosen up and allow more of a refeeding time and shakes things up with leptin and shakes things up with the hormone system. So sometimes it’s the expanding and contracting the vacillating eating and fasting windows that keep things flexible, just like that yoga class is like there’s a time in place for holding that warrior too. But there’s also time in place for that Shavasana and laying your butt down until an hour. So I want people to have that grace and lightness to this is they don’t have to think more is better. And it’s like constantly doing these deeper effects. Because I think that variability is really the spice of metabolic flexibility.
Dr. Mindy 19:31
Yeah, we have had such an interesting experience with our community. We do a five day fasting challenge together every month and we throw out different fasts. And all the omad people came pouring on to my platform. And they were like, I was so great at fast and I lost I just I just talked to one this morning on clubhouse that they were like I lost 44 pounds in nine months. It was amazing. And now I’m stuck. So in your opinion, why is that happening?
Dr. Will Cole 20:04
Well, I mean, the diagnostician nerd in me wants me one on one, right when I run labs and see where it’s at, but oftentimes leptin, right? leptin is high for many people that do really, really well with fasting, because they have leptin resistance and intermittent fasting time, compressed kind of time compressed feeding different types of fasting protocols will help to lower leptin, which is really a lot of the benefits and it’s also resetting the gut microbiome, it’s, it’s lowering inflammation levels, it’s doing amazing things with insulin and blood sugar, doing all that cool stuff, right. But then you get to the point and I talked about this in the book, it’s in the week four of the book, it’s the hormone rebalance week where we really talk about it’s counterintuitive, but like opening up that window and increasing clean carbohydrates to to support gluconeogenesis in a bigger way and support just glucose overall in a bigger way I should say. And by supporting thyroid hormone conversion by boosting leptin up a little bit by supporting progesterone more depending on you know if you’re a cycling female or not so I think that these are all things that shaking things up and loosening up in some ways can be a great way to move past a plateau. So I know the old mad person I love you said that oh mad people like their tribe
Unknown Speaker 21:17
they are I
Unknown Speaker 21:20
don’t want to do anything different. They want to they got great results
Dr. Will Cole 21:24
with it right? And then they hold into it like it’s like a religion. I mean, it’s like anything right? The keto community has that any types of fancy but like a subset community, when the vast community Oh, man, people are diehards. But the reality is loosening things up. I’ve seen this time and time again can be good. Experiment, see how you feel run labs when necessary. And realize that it served you for a time but then long term? What does maintenance look like for me? So week three in the protocol is an almost omad week is it’s an amazing tool. I use that, but it’s not. It’s it’s vacillating assault, we’re not doing omad forever and ever.
Dr. Mindy 22:03
Right? Okay, what do you think is more important? How long you fast? Or what you break your fast with?
Unknown Speaker 22:10
Dr. Will Cole 22:10
question. I like this, I would say, here’s what I would say, you’re going to get benefits from both the food and the fasting, right? You’re gonna and there’s amazing studies to show this. And we all probably know patients and friends, maybe in our lives that don’t eat the best, but fast and see amazing changes. So there’s definitely fasting holds its own for having amazing benefits. And you don’t have to be perfect with your diet or don’t even need to change much with how you eat, to see some changes for many people. But I would say that the other side of the coin is food has amazing things, even if somebody’s eating big windows, and they’re not really fast. Even if you’re eating late at night, but they’re eating healthy foods, you’re still gonna see amazing changes. So I see them two sides of the same coin. But when you bring them together and improve the foods you eat and improve the way that you your time, your way that you’re eating and bring integrated fasting into your life, it’s exponentially going to benefit both. So as a functional medicine practitioner, I’m not going to advocate somebody to fast their way out of a poor diet, I just not going to Does that mean you have to be perfect? No, there’s something about that. It’s about loving your body enough to do things that make you feel good. And really having this paradigm shift, because what I can see happening is some people not to say that’s a large group and the authentic fasting community. But there’s a lot of people that aren’t really new, they’re new to the fasting world. Or they’re coming in with a lot of dieting, dog mine food, shame, and all that stuff. And then they’re not changing their foods. And then we’re telling them to fast like I this is not be just a disordered eating disguised as a wellness practice. And I think a lot of times people think I’m gonna just like eat junk food, I’m gonna really fast the next day because I just wasn’t good eater. That’s not healthy. So we need to reframe why we’re even doing this. And these should be both acts of service for your health and service for how you feel. And I don’t think someone long term should be like, trying to fast their way out of a poor diet.
Dr. Mindy 24:10
Yeah, I love that. So do you think you should apply the same principle to eating as we do to fasting? So if we’re going to vary our fast should we vary our foods? And if we’re going to vary our foods, do you think as somebody who wrote keto keto terian is that how we set a keto terian? Yeah, that you could be keto terian one day and a carnivore the next.
Dr. Will Cole 24:36
Yeah, I mean, keto terian. It’s quite flexible. I mean, the title of the book is called it mostly plant based. So it’s actually more of a Mediterranean ketogenic diet because it has wild caught fish and fresh seafood. And yeah, so that’s the approach and I talked about in Quito terian, which came out in 2018, that of a cyclical keto terian approach. So I I very much want the average person to do a cyclical because it is seasonally, even if that’s what that looks like from an ancestral health perspective, like being more in ketosis, deeper fast during the winter and then having more fresh fruits and tubers and lighter fast in the summer. I mean, there’s many ways for you to do the variability thing. It could be around your menstrual cycle could be around the month. It could be around the week. It could be seasonally. I mean, I think the variability is a tool that people need to integrate. And whatever works for you sustainably, you should experiment with these things. But there is a time in place for a carnivore protocol. I mean, I put patients on carnivore protocols a well formulated nutrient dense clean carnivore diet are things that I have to use clinically. Sometimes for people that have wild food reactions. They have reactions to just about every oxalate lectin histamine salicylates thing you can think of. And we use that as an ultimate elimination diet for a time to untangle that. So yeah, there’s a time in place to use that as part of this variability. But then we leave them out of it. We then we lead them into soups and stews and pureed vegetables and low fodmap vegetables. And long term I don’t see anybody saying like pure carnivore forever and ever. But I think it’s a tool to calm things down for calm a wild on unregulated immune system down.
Dr. Mindy 26:21
Yeah. And I think, again, just the feedback that I get from my community and listening to how people’s mindset is around food, is that we really want to put ourselves in one camp, kind of like the omad people we want. We have the vegan people, we have the carnivore people, and we find our camp, and we get really excited about that. Do you think that we do ourselves a disservice justice, when we decide I’m a vegan, I’m a carnivore, I’m whatever camp that there really shouldn’t be a one diet plan for any human.
Dr. Will Cole 27:01
I think it can be good to find community, I think it can be good to find solutions. Like you said, most of these people comes in with the best of intentions, like when they clean up their diet. And when I’m plant based, it changed their life. Or they love animals like Like, there’s some good stuff to that, like they want to like treat the earth better. And like the gong, and with really good intentions, and they hear about all the environmental implications of like factory farming, and they’re doing that or their health improved, because they got up tons of junk food. And it’s like they that was their path to feeling better. Or the carnivore like we know the epidemic of autoimmune problems and the amount of reactions that people are having even healthy foods. It helps people so then they get super tribal about it. I think as long as your tribal tribalism is open minded and saying like this worked for me, but I still respect you. And I’m okay with pivoting and evolving. If this, if it comes to the point where I don’t need to keep doing this all the time. I think that that’s completely fine. The problem is when people when you have this toxic tribalism which I don’t know what the heck, we’re having toxic tribalism and wellness, like we’re talking about health and wellness and food, like leave it to the politicians, I think the strange politic political stuff, we shouldn’t be like coming together and saying like, okay, that works for you. That doesn’t work. For me. That’s the bio individuality. That’s the heart of functional medicine. Let’s be okay with differences. Yeah, and be okay, with a lot more in common than we have a difference. Because we all agree that factory farming isn’t good. We all agree that processed refined stuff isn’t good. So let’s just focus on that. And then the details of the types of macros we focus on, or the types of foods that we eat. It should not create such a toxic tribalism. And I see I saw it when intuitive fasting came out. I mean, I didn’t realize that. I don’t know if you saw like the crazy my dad
Dr. Mindy 28:58
I did. I was gonna ask you about it. We’ll go ahead and tell it because I was like, Oh, poor? Well, yeah, it’s like, I know wasps nest, you know, is they’re
Dr. Will Cole 29:08
definitely not. I mean, talk about I’m sitting late, I see patients 11 hours a day, I wrote the book, at the end of 2019, over 2020 I, I wrote into fasting, I thought this is going to be because I knew it was actually in the book, I thought this is going to be such a new thing for the average person to learn that this is a mindful and gentle, flexible approach intermittent fasting, because I know it’s important. And I was bringing a different perspective to the conversation, which a lot of times, it’s just lost, the context is lost around this amazing tool. And it’s not a very restrictive fasting protocol. And I didn’t realize that when the book came out that they would be so twisted in this toxic tribalism. So this example, I mean, you could say anybody, there’s so much of this going on, but like the for me, it was Like the eating disorder community, the body positivity community, and these people that and a lot of our DS as well that are intuitive eating coaches, they like what like a pack mob mentality, these rabid wolves of people that didn’t even read the book. I mean, it’s such a cliche and judging a book by its cover yet never even read the book. So it was a combination of me writing it, I’m sure like someone that’s not I don’t even know why. So probably me the fact that we called it intuitive eating or to to fasting. And Gwyneth Paltrow wrote the foreword of the book. So she’s a lightning rod for many things as well. So I think that people just misunderstood it. But that’s a good example of toxic tribalism. It’s like you because it’s not your thing, and you’re not in your echo chamber, and then you get riled up from your echo chamber, you’re gonna demonize somebody over a food book, or fasting book, it’s like their problems in the world hood. There, it’s so it’s so odd. But the I mean, the reality is, was way more positive than negative. And honestly, I got the same thing with keto terian. to a lesser degree, it was like, the keto world, we could have been offended. And then like the plant based world really offended, because they had an egg on the cover. And I said, mostly plant like eggs are very offensive to vegans. And then you just, I pissed off the keto and the plant based community. So that was a good one was very, I’m used to the toxic tribalism within wellness man, and it’s strange,
Dr. Mindy 31:28
it’s crazy. Well, we, you know, we have a Facebook group, the fasting group that and then we’ve got like, 42,000 people in it, and I kid you not, at least once or twice a week, we have to break up a fight from the vegans and the carnivores. And take a post down, do something just because of the people really struggling to allow other people to express their food habits. And it’s, you know, and then there’s a lot of misinformation about like, what’s best for the planet, not for the planet. And I and I really, in today’s age, I feel like more than ever, we need to allow everybody to take their own health path. And to your point in the wellness world, let’s just applaud the fact that somebody hopped on a path, and they’re trying to do something that is amazing. Now, I think the next evolution is we have to help everybody customize their wellness path for them. And I would say that’s what I really appreciate appreciate about your book is you took a giant step forward, instead of just saying, do this, don’t do that. You’re like, well, there’s this intuitive spirit in you that you can tap into. So I’m a fan. Well, I thought, I thought you did a good job. And I watched people come at you. And I was like, Oh, my gosh, I can’t believe that. Well, yeah,
Unknown Speaker 32:46
I think the last time we were supposed to
Dr. Will Cole 32:48
talk Originally, we were supposed to talk that week that it was all going down and I got the timezones off, and I apologize. But like, that was a week it was going down. So I was like, Oh, my Lord, it just, it was fine. It was actually quite a good meditation to go through it. Because it was like, Alright, yeah, I just need to have non resistance towards now and have compassion towards people that are really triggered by they’re addicted to being triggered, let’s be honest, and they’re addicted to being offended. And then they’re addicted to food, probably that is driving inflammation, and they probably have brain inflammation to some degree. Yeah. So you’d have to have compassion towards people that feel like crap, and they hurt people hurt people, as they say, oh, true.
Dr. Mindy 33:30
How do you decide which fast to do? This is a very common question that I get pretty much on a weekly basis. And it really depends on what you’re trying to do with your health. And so I really strongly feel that there are six facets that will really benefit the human body. And they’re all based off of research, and they’re all based off of time. And once you understand these six fasts, it’s really fun to varying them and go in and out of different types of fasts. So what I’ve done to make fasting much easier for you guys is I have a free giveaway. It’s a fasting cheat sheet. And if you just go into the show notes, you’ll see there’s a link there, just click on the link and it’ll send you to the fasting cheat sheet. And here’s what I want you to know in that cheat sheet. Actually, other than great bullet point information that will like help you to dial in your fast really quickly. I’ve included some new information from a fasting book that will come out in 2022 for women, and so it’s got some really unique information but also really clear guidelines for you to follow so that you thrive with your fasting lifestyle. So that’s my fasting cheat sheet and it’s free to you guys just go into the show notes, you can click on the link, and you’ll be able to access it and as always, I hope it changes your life and moves your health forward. Do you think people with eating disorders should fast
Dr. Will Cole 35:00
Generally speaking, no. And I make that very clear in the book that this is not a book for people with, with eating disorders, either current or the past. Now, I would like to have a nuanced conversation about this, because I think they should get the go ahead from the eating disorder specialist, I think they should talk to their doctor. That’s what I say very clearly in the book within the first couple pages of the book. So this is not for that. But I will say, and I’m sure you know this, because you this is like the fast you’re part of the fasting community in a big way. There are many people that got the go ahead from the eating disorder specialist, they got the go ahead from their doctor. And they feel better than ever, when they got their health in order. And they used to have any new disorder, but they feel better than ever doing intermittent fasting. Because they’re not starving themselves, they feel a lot healthier, because a lot of times people that have eating disorders, as I either could be us, obviously trauma from the past, and a lot of different reasons why someone could have a disorder, the sense of control and obsession, but when you start feeling healthy, and you get blood sugar balanced, you get inflammation levels lowered, you get their gut healthy. I’m telling you, when people have many people, I’ve seen that that were just had such an unhealthy relationship with their body in such an unhealthy relationship with food to start find that food peace for themselves through intermittent fasting in part, I think it can be an amazing tool for people, but they need to do it. I don’t know where they’re at on their recovery. I don’t know where what their specifics of their case, I don’t know. Like they need to look at what type of intermittent fasting would be right for them. But so I think it can be amazing tool, you just have to be judicious and get the Go ahead, because I have many patients that love it. And they felt their feel better than ever, because they’re not out of control. And by that I don’t mean that they’re now in this obsessive control that they used to have. With the disordered eating. I’m saying they have this resolute awareness of what works for their body and what doesn’t. And they’re not clinging to this sort of unsustainable, unhealthy relationship, they just have a piece. And they can they can intuitively fast and use it as an act of service for the body. Hmm,
Dr. Mindy 37:06
I love that. And I would absolutely agree I’ve we’ve worked with a lot of people who have had eating disorders, and I’ve seen it, like break them free from food, when they do it right. And I so am in alignment with bring your whoever’s helping you through that process, bring them into this conversation, because there is something on the other side of that which is, is incredible. So
Dr. Will Cole 37:30
yeah, that’s a great way of putting it you’re breaking free. I’ve seen people break free from that, because they’re not addicted to food anymore. It’s not that they’re, they’re not bound by that addiction. And then they can have this like this. This they’ve made peace with all of it. I think it’s really cool to see. But yeah, we normally as like functional medicine practitioners we’re working with in combination with their eating disorder specialist. So they’re looped in and all that.
Dr. Mindy 37:53
Yeah. Yeah. And I think the way we’ve been taught nutrition actually disconnects us from our primitive design, and what fasting does all versions of this reconnects you. So when you get reconnected, that inflammation comes down, you make better decisions, you see things a little clearer. So I think it’s a great tool. And that bridge can be tough. So involving all your practitioners is great. Yeah. Okay, I have to ask you all the questions that I get, and I’m so curious, your opinion on this. Okay, what breaks a fast?
Dr. Will Cole 38:27
I love that. That’s a comment. That’s, I probably get asked that every day, right? Yeah. And I say, add one more thing to what you said. I would say this I, through all the hubbub of the book when it came out. I can’t tell you how many people that were part of the eating disorder community can’t message me by the hundreds. That said, I can’t even say this publicly. Because I will be attacked by the eating disorder community and the body positivity community. If by by even saying the intermittent fasting, improve my health and improving like there’s such a fear of that weird kancil culture within wellness that they can’t even speak what they have gone through their own experience. So yeah, it’s really crazy to see that but there’s an outpouring of people that I think that are looking to feel good. And a lot of times people within the eating disorder community and the body positivity community are told, eat whatever you want, like have that going on, have that cake have all that stuff. And could you imagine someone with autoimmunity, people that have blood sugar problems, that diabetes, that having anxiety issues, feeding them with that his inflammatory foods, it’s making, it’s not working for them, it may work for some people, and that may be part of their recovery. But there are many people that it’s just that’s not working, and they need to find their true north and they need to calm that stuff down so they can actually hear what their body truly needs. I think that’s an important point, too. Yeah,
Dr. Mindy 39:50
no, I thank you for pointing that out. I really because there is there is this genre of people that we can really help with fasting if they’re doing it with the style. An approach like your teaching?
Unknown Speaker 40:01
Dr. Will Cole 40:02
So what breaks a fast? This is like the age old question. So you’re never got into the great, you’re never gonna get an agreed upon answer on this. So right, I think there’s a spectrum, a gradient of things that are erring on the side of I want this fast to be as pure, and I want to get all the benefits as possible. And then I think there’s a gradient of area of fasting, mimicking things that you’re going to get most of the benefits of fasting, if not all of them. But you could be down regulating some of the benefits benefits, but you’re not cancelling out your fast, you’re not breaking your fast. And then there’s things that break the fast, namely, I would say, higher, obviously eating more more food, like above a certain calorie threshold, or specifically things that can impact insulin really impact digestion, or impact mTOR in a considerable way. So I think that the safest bet is water, or liquids that don’t have any calories. I think coffee and tea is in that state too.
We know that cortisol can be impacted in some people within the keto and the fasting community that say, well, coffee can impact insulin and all that stuff. But the reality is, look what’s happening in this hormetic effect of this hormesis of fasting cortisol is coming up some to it just because something raises cortisol doesn’t necessarily mean it’s bad. Coffee also can increase lipolysis and fat burning can increase the tidy levels to make your fast easier. So I don’t I think that coffee and tea are, are a great tool to consider. And you can do caffeine free tea if you do caffeine if you are sensitive to caffeine. But as a general rule, if you’re not sensitive to caffeine, if you’re a fast metabolizer of caffeine, I think coffee and tea are like pretty solid, you’re cool. I think the next step over is adding the healthy fats into the coffee and tea or water. So like the MCT oil, the coconut oil, the ghee, even where it’s just fat, you’re not getting protein. So it’s you’re not impacting insulin is such a negligible amount and you’re not having copious amounts of these, it’s just a spoonful. So calories are pretty low, you’re not really impacting things one way or the other too much. If you’re having multiple cups of those, I think that could be a little bit and not ideal during the fast so maybe just do one of those and then the rest just having without the fat in it. And then the next question that people ask is, can I add the almond milk creamer? Can I add the collagen, so like at that point, the almond milk creamer or the coconut creamer milk, coconut milk, small amounts of protein probably not that big of a deal. It is calories that having some carbohydrates in there too, such a small amount. But if you even look at what valter Longo is doing it at USC when it comes to the fasting mimicking approach, you’re having pretty significant amount of calories Yeah, and and proteins and fats and carbs. And the research shows you’re still in a fasting mimicking state you’re not breaking your fast totally, it would just be under that gradient of fasting mimicking, you’re still going to be in ketosis, you’re still going to be getting the benefits of it. Once you start adding in scoops of collagen protein. Still calorically not that much really not that big of a deal. If you look at what the research on what valter Longo is looking at, I still would say more or less, you’re going to be in a fasting mimicking state. But for me, I think erring on the side of the fact that mTOR pathway is sensitive to protein, I would err on not adding higher amounts of protein in even if it is just a scoop of collagen. And use that collagen as the break the fast meal like towards the end of your fast is what I would say because it is very gentle on the gut. It’s very bioavailable, a great source of complete protein. But I would have more of the collagen and even like soups and stews and bone broth at the towards the end of the fast as the break the fast meal. That’s not to say that there’s not a place for broth and so being I just think it would be more of like a fasting mimicking state. So that’s that’s my overall thoughts on it. Yeah.
Dr. Mindy 43:56
Yeah, no, I think well said I think that’s really well said, What do you think of the measurement of like, measure your blood sugar? Drink what you’re going to drink hour later measure your blood sugar again, you know, what, what’s that doing? Do you think that’s helpful for people that are first learning this?
Dr. Will Cole 44:12
Oh, yeah, I think that’s great. I think that at the beginning two metrics like that, like getting a glucometer getting a ketone meter can be a great way to see how your body reacts. That’s a brilliant point because that bio individuality is we’re all different and these foods are going to interplay different how what your activity level, how you slept, all these other variables are going to play a part of it too. And that goes back to that use it for a time to check in with your body and to learn how your body interacts with these things. But over time, that art that intuition you won’t necessarily have to keep measuring over and over again unless you’re a super mega mega biohacker and you really love that stuff. Keep doing it, but many people they don’t want to be super like granular and that that you know mire down with these the metrics all the time. So keep it simple if you want to but at the beginning of Could be a good learning experience about your
Dr. Mindy 45:01
Yeah. Well, and that’s why I think the title intuitive fasting from a fast team perspective is brilliant because I would say I know that moment where it’s almost like they’re switch flips, and I’m like, oh, okay, I’m in ketosis. Now I get it. Like, there’s like a weird switch that happens. And once you’ve been fasting long enough, you aren’t necessarily using the glucometer. Or you’re not leaning into that. But in the beginning, you’re learning you’re, you’re it’s like learning to ride a bike, and you’re just learning that process. And once you get it down, it becomes very intuitive to your
Dr. Will Cole 45:34
Yeah, yeah, it’s a beautiful rhythm and the art of it. So there’s like as the science and the art of it, the science is all the stuff the cool stuff, is that the research of how to do these things, but the art of it is how do you translate that to your real life your own and have one experiment and evolve that over time as your health changes?
Dr. Mindy 45:52
Yeah. Do you have something that you do you strategically think about what you want to break your fast with? I actually had this conversation with Thomas de Lauer. And he you know, buff bodybuilding guy, he likes to work out in a fasted state, and then break it with protein so that he goes from a state of a toffee G to mtorr. And he starts to build. I know that some people are now saying, gosh, you should think about eating your carbs earlier in the day because you’re more sensitive. I know some people love to break their fast with fat. Do you have a theory or a personal value system around what you break your fast with?
Dr. Will Cole 46:33
I do. I do. And little fun side now, Thomas de Lauer and I were friends. And he people, unlike the thin version of Thomas de Lauer, people was like, you guys could be brothers. And we were at some keto event, he was at a different one. We were in the same hotel at the same time to different events, and we got to hang out, hang out with my son, my son was probably 13 at the time. He’s a cool, really cool guy. But um, it’s funny. Every time I post a picture, it’s like I see someone in the comment section that looks like Thomas.
Dr. Mindy 47:04
Well, I had to laugh because I you know, a lot of our resellers are menopausal women. And I’m like, I did go and interpret what Thomas said, because he came to my community. And I’m like, Okay, let’s just look at Thomas. Thomas is like, what a 40 year old bodybuilding guy. Now let’s apply it to a menopausal woman. What do you need?
Dr. Will Cole 47:26
But you know, he, yeah, so my thoughts on that is that break the fast meal in the in the book, which I talked more about in week three, which is the almost omad day, right, it’s the almost omad week, because I think that once you get 18, and beyond on time compressed feeding, I think that’s when the break the fast meal means the most because like the villa is going to be shorter, that cortisol is going to be a bit higher, you’re gonna you’re in that deeper ketosis, more of that hormetic effect. I don’t know if some people need to be that concerned with the 14, like below, even the 16 and below, like just eat healthy food and lean onto it. I don’t know if it has to be that granular and that specific, but I do think that that 18 and beyond and obviously, multiple day fasts should be have a proper break the fast meal. To me, I think that soups and stews are really helpful in that way. Because you’re getting the protein through the broth, like we’re talking about bone broth based things. And I think it’s a great, easy to digest protein, very gentle on the gut, the vegetables are cooked and pureed and soft, and it’s sort of just gently leaving the body out of that healing state. So I think and then about an hour, an hour and a half later, you can have your regular meal. So I think that broths and soups, the suits are an easy thing to do. Other things could be I think protein can be fine. I don’t think having too much fat at the beginning is a great idea because it could be really disruptive to your digestion earlier on. I don’t think you should have a lots of raw vegetables or anything that’s hard to digest. I think it should be soft,
Unknown Speaker 48:57
Dr. Will Cole 48:58
Gentle in the gut
Unknown Speaker 48:59
Dr. Will Cole 49:00
think could work, depending on how you do them. I think smoothies could be an easy transition
Dr. Mindy 49:05
to what do you think about breaking your fast with dry farm wines?
Dr. Will Cole 49:12
Well, they will drive
Unknown Speaker 49:14
asking for a friend. Yes.
Dr. Will Cole 49:18
Throughout the people drive farms will tell you it does not throw you out of ketosis so I you know, it has its place. I don’t drink mine. But you know, I love drive farms for people who do first. Right,
Dr. Mindy 49:32
right, exactly. Okay, I have to ask you this question. men versus women with fasting. This is something that I spent a lot of time talking about what are your feelings on the differences for fasting for men versus women?
Dr. Will Cole 49:46
So I spent a lot of the book talking about that because I mean, 90% of my patients are are women. So I would say this is that I’m reducing women into one group is like an interesting thing. And I know that you guys, you know this already because you’re in the fasting group but like that for people that are maybe they new to this like saying fasting is not good for women is very reductionist, like Who is she? And how is she fasting? Those are two really important things. So instead of saying fasting is not good for a woman asked Who is she, and how is she fasting, because there’s a lot of different types of women. I know, that’s maybe breaking news for people, but they’re all going through different things in their life, and how fasting interplays with their health and where they’re at on their health journey is gonna be different, and then how she’s doing the intermittent fast. So I generally think that people need to, and that goes back to that intuitive fasting component of it checking in with your body, because I find that therapeutically, the average menstruating woman could do moderate fasts for a while, time compressed feeding for a while, and therapeutically, it’s gonna get way more good things out of it. But then there’s going to from what they’re going to hit a maintenance mode, where leptin starts coming down and inflammation. So it’s coming down the guts improving the blood sugar’s more balanced, at that point, their metabolic flexibility is improving. At that point, their maintenance mode is going to find in the more they’re going to have to do more of a cyclical, fast around their menstrual cycle, not everybody has to go hit that maintenance mode, that quickly, sometimes they can go months and months before they ever need to worry about doing any moderation around their menstrual cycle because they’re getting so much amazing therapeutic benefits from the intermittent fast that they’re still riding that high of health improvements. Yeah, but depending on where their starting point is when leptin starts coming down. Some a lot of menstruating women will do better with lighter fasts around their period and around ovulation. And that’s not just fasting, that’s also looking at your macros too. So increasing those clean carbohydrates around those days, too can be one tool to consider where you may be lower carb and keto the other days of the month, but you’re increasing their clean carbohydrates around your period and around ovulation. Now, I’m not talking about that high of carbs either. It’s how I say in the book is 75 grams, 150 grams of carbohydrates, that’s not high carb, we’re talking about increasing fruits and sweet potatoes and starches and things like that, like nothing out of the ordinary. But it’s enough to shake things up, like I said, to maintain that proper balance for their for hormones.
Dr. Mindy 52:17
Yeah. How important do you think macros are? He said she brought it up? Do you think there’s something we use when we first come to these principles? And then we break free from them after a while? Or do you think there’s something we always want to look at?
Dr. Will Cole 52:30
I think that’s a therapeutic tool to use at the beginning to learn about your body and to physically improve your health. So I think a keto terian or a clean ketogenic diet is a great tool, it works really well than German fasting, they’re both supporting beta hydroxy butyrate. So you’re mimicking fasting, even when you’re not fasting, you’re supporting beta hydroxy, butyrate, and getting a lot of the benefits of fasting without actually fasting. So I think concurrently, they will they are they’re exponentially enhance the benefit of both. But also, they make your fast easier, because because you’re eating nutrient dense foods, and you’re stabilizing your blood sugar with this food. So just removing ketosis from the from the picture. You’re eating really satiating foods that will make your fast easier as you’re leaning into this. So there are many reasons for this. And so over time, I think as someone gains metabolic flexibility, they can adjust and intuitively just a macronutrients, they don’t always have to be in ketosis. And I wouldn’t recommend that for the average person, I think a cyclical approach is how I advocated for most people. But that said, Do I think everybody has to be eating a clean ketogenic diet intermittent fast? No. But I do think that it could be a therapeutic tool to improve how you feel in the short term.
Dr. Mindy 53:44
Yeah, and probably going from the standard American diet, mixing that with fasting, if you combine those two, that might be the most difficult way to fast. Yeah. Yeah, that’s kind of what I’ve seen. Go ahead.
Dr. Will Cole 53:58
Yeah. Cuz your, your blood sugar’s all over the place. And what’s the 18 hour window gonna do? It’s like, it’s like, you’re gonna have to really look at what you’re doing. Are you gonna see some changes? Probably? Is it? Are you giving your body a break from all the crap and a bra? Your body’s probably thanking, you? know, probably, because you’re giving your body more of a time to repair but I wouldn’t recommend it long term for just someone’s health.
Dr. Mindy 54:25
Right, right. Yeah. Okay, so I’ve got five rapid fire questions for you. But I’m going to add a sixth one, and because I’m curious about this one, so let me start with the sixth one. What if there is like one fasting hack that everybody wants? The one little cool trick that makes fasting easier? Do you have one? And if so, what would it be?
Dr. Will Cole 54:45
Yeah, to come to mind. One is so simple, but I just think it’s important saying is make sure you’re eating enough food during your eating window. Many people make that mistake, they’re just hypocaloric and then it’s not eating enough or they think that fasting equals chronic caloric restriction. No, I want your Eating window to be good doesn’t mean that there can’t be a slight caloric deficit. But we’re not dramatically lowering calories during that, that that eating window. So make sure you’re eating enough food. And number two electrolytes, I think are talked about a lot in the community, but they’re probably not given enough attention. So I think that a blend making sure you’re supporting your body, especially at the beginning with sodium, magnesium, potassium chloride, whether you make your own like saltwater elixir, or you’re buying like a supplement pack, like I like the element. Sure you
Unknown Speaker 55:31
Yeah, we’ve done it before.
Dr. Will Cole 55:33
Yeah. So I think those can be good and sipping on that throughout the day can be a great way to help your energy levels and you don’t get the brain fog or like you’re helping to stabilize, just feeling good throughout the day, especially at the beginning. So those are my two.
Dr. Mindy 55:46
Yes, yeah. I love that those are both really great. And the minerals, you know, I never really realized how depleted our soils were, until I started teaching people about fasting. And then you start seeing how those mineral deficiencies really revealed themselves. And then you go, Wait, everybody’s got this. Okay, if everybody’s has it, what’s missing in our environment? And that led me to regenerative agriculture. It’s just
Unknown Speaker 56:10
so so good.
Dr. Will Cole 56:11
Yeah. Look, if we let regenerative farmers take over the government, we’d be like, we’d be doing pretty good when it comes to our problems in the world. Yeah, my brother is my brother in law is one so I Oh, is he?
Dr. Mindy 56:24
Yeah, I like that idea. Let’s let him take over the world. And then actually, maybe we get out of the pandemic a little sooner because they’d be growing us food that would actually support a healthy immune system. Yeah.
Dr. Will Cole 56:34
Imagine that and the environment
Dr. Mindy 56:37
would be incredible. Okay, you have an awesome podcast. you’ve interviewed a lot of people. What’s the most interesting interview that you’ve done that stands out for you?
Dr. Will Cole 56:50
I talked to so many cool people. I can’t I would love to have you on if you’d love to come? Yeah. I I loved the conversation with Nicola para, holistic psychologist. She’s so smart. I love her so much. She’s so sweet. And that’s a cool conversation. So I love that about childhood trauma and the impact that could have on people’s health today. Like the impact the connection between trauma and autoimmunity and inflammation I think that that’s really interesting with my work and in the research around that Elle Macpherson It was our first ever podcast so I have to get I was excited about that. She’d never done a podcast before. So she did it for me. And Gwyneth Paltrow was cool too, like the talking about the book. But people within the house health world Nicola Perry was up there Dr. Caroline leaf neuroscientist super smart. We talked about toxic thoughts and the impact that could have on our health too. So those are some of my that’s
Dr. Mindy 57:49
to me that’s the most fun part about podcasting is you sit back and you go Who do I want to have a conversation with? Yeah, right. And then you get to have a conversation. So which is really cool. Okay, what is the one book outside of your own book that you think everybody would need to read? Probably either in the mindset arena mindfulness health but what’s the one book that really changed your life and you think could impact everyone?
Dr. Will Cole 58:15
Yeah, I honestly think Nicola para and Caroline leaves work are amazing works and I can’t tell you how many patients since that episode aired sorry that since the episode aired how many people said I read that book and it’s changed my life. So how to do the work by Nicola para. Dr. Nicola para, and then cleaning up your mental mess from Caroline, Dr. Caroline leaf. Those are two amazing books that I would say in that space to,
Unknown Speaker 58:42
Dr. Will Cole 58:43
to consider reading.
Dr. Mindy 58:44
I love it. Okay, what about when you go to look for I mean, we’re all on this journey of health and learning as long with everybody else so when you go to look for somebody that inspires you in the health world that you love their teachings Do you have anybody right now that you find is just really inspiring your health brain?
Dr. Will Cole 59:07
I don’t keep going back to the same thing, people but I think Dr. Columba is doing some really cool things I say. I’m not saying that because she’s on the My I think she’s doing some amazing stuff within the health world as far as the mind body connection. Yeah. Because she struggled with with autoimmunity and different inflammatory issues. And she talks about it and dealing with that mental emotional side of physical health. So she’s doing really cool things. I’m so in my bubble.
Dr. Mindy 59:35
Right. I know. I know.
Dr. Will Cole 59:38
I just like, I don’t get up from this. I just I’m obviously getting up. I’d see patients 11 hours a day. I’m not the best for that question. There’s so many people doing really cool things. What
Dr. Mindy 59:48
about your dad is your dad? Are you inspire him?
Dr. Will Cole 59:52
Yeah, well, hey, look, it’s a little bit of both maybe, but yeah, my dad Of course. Yeah. Yeah. There you go. My dad and Dr. pompe. I think they’re doing really Amazing things too. And we’re coming out. We talked before we
Dr. Mindy 1:00:03
just talked about your hair product, because I think this my resellers will love this. So I’d love to hear about it.
Dr. Will Cole 1:00:10
Yeah, so it’s a whole system that really, Dr. Pompa put a lot of legwork. And I’m there to educate and to teach people about the science about it, and like the functional medicine side of it, and how these different nutrients work. But largely, that was a passion project from Dr. Pompa. And we’ve all seen clinically over the past years that that hair loss is one of these really sticking points where it is especially even investing community where people can have it, and they’re not properly supported. And they don’t have any direction, or like, it’s generally just labeled things like te or alopecia. And they’re, or that’s normal. And they don’t even get any direction, even though they know it’s not normal. So I think giving people a very comprehensive training, but also the supplements support and even a hair serum a probiotic hair serum that Dr. Bumble worked on. So it’s it’s out now. So I’m excited for people to try it.
Dr. Mindy 1:01:03
Yeah, I’m really excited as well, because that is next to what breaks fast. How long should I fast? I probably get my hair’s falling out. What should I do? That’s a that’s definitely in the top five.
Dr. Will Cole 1:01:15
So yes, 100%,
Dr. Mindy 1:01:16
right. Five habits that you do every day for your health, you may realize you do it or don’t do it. I mean, you’re working 11 hour days. What are those five habits and and which ones are non negotiable? Like, I’ll always do this, this shows up in my daily habits every day.
Unknown Speaker 1:01:33
Dr. Will Cole 1:01:36
I would say like get optimal sleep. That’s definitely I’ll be honest with you, I’m not the best at it. So these are habits I know are important because I know the research and I see patients for a living. So I know that it’s such an important thing. I know for my body intuitively, I need to give myself a little bit more sleep. So that’s something I’m working on. And we’re all works in progress for these things. So I have a lot going on and sometimes it’s hard for me to wind down so I know all the hacks like I have the blue light blocking glasses I have the weighted blanket of the sensor
Dr. Mindy 1:02:08
so do you have a chili pad open?
Dr. Will Cole 1:02:10
I don’t I if I needed one I would take it because I recommend the chili bad. Yeah. And people on my team have chili pads But no, I don’t sleep too too hot at night. So but yeah, I’ve heard jillybear is a game changer for me is
Dr. Mindy 1:02:23
Dr. Will Cole 1:02:24
changer or like get hot night sweats and things like that. So, sleep optimization, work in progress, but it’s definitely not horrible. It’s just could be better. And gratitude practice majorly important to me. And that’s not just one thing, like I’m doing it throughout in between talking to patients and using mindfulness practice and gratitude practice. It’s nothing big and fancy and esoteric. It’s just sort of like breathing and checking with my body and just being thankful being in a state of gratitude towards the people that I’m honored to be a part of their health journey or my team or whatever, that I’m thankful for that time. Eating healthy foods I think is this non negotiable for me so like this stuff that we it’s not even it’s so intuitive to me that I don’t even think of it as a thing but this is definitely a non negotiable I’m just gonna eat healthy foods and it’s just part of my life. So that’s a non negotiable for me. And flexible intermittent fasting is a non negotiable for me. I just feel so good when I do it. So it’s gonna look different depending on the day, but it’s part of it is a non negotiable. And I don’t know if that’s enough, but
Dr. Mindy 1:03:34
yeah, no, that works. One thought one thought I had this comes up a lot is where do you feel supplements? Do you think if you have a good lifestyle, and you’re feeling healthy, and you’re on a good track? Do you think you need supplements? Yeah,
Dr. Will Cole 1:03:48
I do. I think most people could benefit from some of that they would be on a lot. But food is first just like you can’t fast your way out of a poor diet, you can supplement your way out of a poor diet for either so I think that people should focus on food as medicine first eating nutrient dense foods but there’s some things that you and I both know that you’re not even just back to the mineral argument like it’s they’re not getting the nutrient density that we want we’re so I think behooves us. Even if we are eating healthy foods to supplement some extra things that probably were a part of the food supply at one point but now are in less amounts. And then also like things like vitamin D we’re inside a lot. So unless you’re in a loincloth in Miami for 10 hours a day, you probably you have to be vitamin D deficient. And for those people that are have fun, like go go go for it on South Beach, but but that I see so many people that are even in Miami that are in Los Angeles in Texas, in the sunny areas that are still vitamin D deficient because they’re inside. Yeah, so or they’re covered up or they’re wearing tons of sunscreen which is negative but sunscreen is needed but they aren’t getting the vitamin D. So So vitamin D B vitamins I think are good. Things to consider like a methylfolate methyl Kabbalah mean, many people have because of our environment, they’re having these methylation impairments, and the body’s just not methylating very well.
Unknown Speaker 1:05:11
Dr. Will Cole 1:05:12
those, those are like the two basic ones that most people could then
Dr. Mindy 1:05:16
grade. Okay, last question, if you had one message for the world that you could get into everybody’s brain, what would that message be?
Dr. Will Cole 1:05:25
It’s a true central Cornerstone part of my work part of my work, it’s you can’t heal a body you hate, you cannot shame your way into wellness or obsess your way into health like it to me, it’s just it’s more than a talking point it is it is a Genesis, it is the genesis of sustainable wellness, because most people, they can come in with like really bad relationships with themselves and with food. And then then they tried to, like, take something amazing, like fasting, and then abuse it by trying to shame their way out of it, or try to, like punish their body with this this fast. So I think that that has to start to be not that you’re going to be a master at this overnight, but start to recalibrate your perspective and say, How can I love my body enough to do things that make me feel good? and avoiding things that don’t make me feel good isn’t restrictive, it’s self respect. Yeah. And you like feeling better more than you thought you miss something that made you feel really lousy, and it’s just a bad trade off? Why would you want to bring something in, it’s gonna dim your light. So I think that that’s the biggest thing that I wish people got. Because that’s freedom. You’re not in a restrictive thing anymore. It’s like, no, it’s common sense. You want to do things that improve your quality of life. And I would say, from a functional medicine perspective, do things that improve your labs? Yep. Like your labs aren’t lying. So when I see labs improve over and over again, it’s like with our back to what we earlier said, like, I believe, like, it’s a belief, it’s not a belief, this isn’t a faith that you can actually see the fruit of these amazing tools.
Dr. Mindy 1:06:51
Yeah. I love that I quote you all the time on you can’t help somebody that you hate, because I think it’s it’s so true and fasting, we take the rigidity of what we did in the with eating, and we bring it to fasting, which, in some sense, is even more self damaging. So I love that just creating the mindset. so incredible. Well, thank you for letting me pick your brain. And I know I hope everybody runs out and gets your book. Where can people find you? How can they dive into your information?
Dr. Will Cole 1:07:21
I thank you so much. Again, everything’s a Dr. Will cold calm. So that’s Dr. wi Ll Co. Le comm I’m on Instagram at Dr. Rowe Cole. The podcast is called the art of Being Well, new episode every Thursday, so they can check that on Apple podcasts or Spotify.
Dr. Mindy 1:07:39
Hey, resetera, I just want to start off by saying thank you so much for all your wonderful reviews. And those of you that have left me comments on iTunes. I just greatly appreciate your thoughtfulness and how much you guys are enjoying these episodes. And it seems like you’re enjoying them as much as I am enjoying doing them. One of the things that I’ve learned in just interacting with so many people is that we’ve really lost the art of deep conversations. And for me, the resetter podcast stands for having meaningful conversations with people who are thinking about health, about life about mindset in a way that we may not be getting on social media or in mainstream media. And so I just want to say give you guys a shout out and just say thank you for participating in this process with me. Because as much as I absolutely love delivering the information to you, I love even more knowing that it’s impacting your life. So please let us know if there’s anything we can do to make this podcast more customized to you to make it better. We are now officially in season two. And we are working to bring you the best conversations that health influencers have that mindset changers can give and to really deliver you something that you’re not able to get anywhere else. So from the bottom of my heart, as I always say my YouTube from the bottom of my heart. I am deeply appreciative of you I am deeply grateful to be on this journey with you and let’s get healthy together.