How Women Reclaim Their Voice in a Corrupt System
- Dr. Mindy Pelz
- Mar 4
- 53 min read
EP329 with Dr. Shefali Tsabary
Have you felt it lately? That quiet sense that something isn't aligned. In the culture, in leadership, even in the wellness space.
You can’t quite name it. But you feel it. There’s a shift happening.
Women are activated. Angry. Disillusioned. Awake.
In this episode of The Resetter Podcast, I sit down with Dr. Shefali Tsabary for one of the most honest conversations I’ve had in a long time to explore the question many women are quietly asking right now:
Why does everything feel so activating?
Together, we unpack rage, patriarchy, parenting, identity, and the neurological shift that happens during midlife. We explore how women internalize power systems, why anger is rising culturally, and how to transform unconscious rage into conscious leadership.
Rage is human. But rage without wisdom will burn you out.
-Dr. Shefali Tsabary
Many women are feeling something shift, a quiet discomfort with narratives they once accepted without question.
In This Episode, You’ll Learn:
Why rage is a signal, not a flaw
The difference between unconscious anger and conscious leadership
How women internalize patriarchal systems
The psychology of power, fame, and dopamine
Why protecting children from discomfort weakens empathy
How to raise emotionally resilient sons
How to raise strong, self-trusting daughters
The neurological shifts that occur in menopause
Why postmenopausal women are uniquely wired for truth
If you apply what you hear in this episode, you will stop suppressing your anger, stop self-abandoning, and start leading from awareness instead of reaction.
Content Disclosure:This episode includes discussion of patriarchy, cultural power dynamics, parenting, anger, and current events involving public figures and widely reported controversies. References to individuals and cultural moments are part of a broader conversation about systems, power, and personal awareness. The discussion may feel activating or emotionally charged for some listeners.
The perspectives shared are intended for educational and informational purposes only. They do not constitute medical, psychological, legal, or professional advice. Any commentary regarding public figures reflects personal opinion within the context of the discussion.
If you are experiencing emotional distress or feel impacted by topics discussed in this episode, please consider seeking support from a licensed healthcare or mental health professional.
TRANSCRIPT
Dr. Mindy (00:01.784)
Okay, Dr. Shafali, I should say I'm enraged to have this conversation with you. This is another emergency podcast that we called, I did one two weeks ago with Dr. Sarah Cizal on a very similar topic. So I just wanna say thank you for responding so quickly to my message and being willing to jump on immediately and have this conversation with me.
Shefali (00:29.442)
Of course, you we are in a very unique moment that we are confronted with really the deepest shadow of human existence and people are struggling, they are feeling overwhelmed and so any help we can offer them is an honor for me to be part of.
Dr. Mindy (00:34.008)
Yeah.
Dr. Mindy (00:40.425)
Mm. Yep.
Dr. Mindy (00:49.614)
Yeah, thank you. Well, I want to start with how I took in the information when the three million Epstein files got dumped and the process I've been going through actually as a woman over the last couple of weeks, which really hit home when I saw your post on Instagram. You know, the day that Peter Attia's the information about Peter Attia came out, I was in disbelief. I was like, really? Yet I do want to tell you I have been
bullied by the bro wellness culture quite a bit. So I don't know why I was surprised that it was interesting to me. But I decided I really wanted to dive deep into understanding how his name was there, Deepak Chopra's name. You know, we're now learning Dr. Oz's name, like what was going on. And so I dove into as many of the files as I could.
and I went through a two week experience of vacillating between depression, rage, confusion.
wanting just to check out. And then I finally landed on clarity when I saw your post. And this is what propelled me to reach out to you. And I wanna read it to people, least two of the two pages of it, because it's really insightful. And this is what your post said. The world is buzzing, your head is spinning. You wanna scream, sob and throw up all at the same time.
And then you want to breathe, stay sane, and just live your own life. Back and forth, you are exhausted from the pendulum swing, but doing nothing feels impossible. So what do we do with the rage right now? So I want to open that up to you and say, my big takeaway over the last two weeks was this
Dr. Mindy (02:45.569)
power over patriarchal system has been manipulating women as long as you and I have been born and centuries before that. I can only speak for myself and perhaps the women that follow me. My brain has been completely infected by this power over culture. I have been taught to people please, I have been taught to perform, I have...
met the harm of white men in power where sexual abuse occurred. And for me, this moment is a lifetime of suppression. And I'm angry. What do we do? How do we wake up and use this as fuel for something better?
Shefali (03:36.622)
Yeah, wow. Well, thank you for opening this. Thank you for being so raw and honest. And I can say ditto to everything. I too have been prey to this culture personally, like physically by men in my life since I was a child. And of course, through all the people that we've met, right? And both of us have touched and we've heard story after story of predation, of vulnerability, of fear.
fear that grips women's lives. I we cannot go outside at night. just can't. Or if we do, we have to think about it. We have to doubt ourselves. We have to armor up. And we have to track each other. And men can just go. They can just go. And this is their privilege, because biology endowed them with a bigger body. That's it. That's the only real advantage they have.
Dr. Mindy (04:05.069)
here.
Dr. Mindy (04:09.781)
Yeah. Yeah.
Yep.
Shefali (04:28.774)
a bigger body, bigger might, more testosterone, greater aggression, hallelujah, good for them. But that power when it is unchecked leads to this absolute, you know, vile exploitation of the weak. You know, when I began talking about conscious parenting in 2007, my first book only came out in 2010, back then I talked about
how we parents, we adults exploit our children, how we treat them as chattel, how we control them. And I was only talking really about, you know, don't force your kid to kiss grandma. You know, I was just talking at that level. Take that times one bazillion into this mutation, this perversion, and now we have what we have. So the first thing we need to do is acknowledge where we each are individually and personally, as you and I are right now doing.
Dr. Mindy (05:09.901)
Mmm.
Shefali (05:26.692)
This is stirring up so much old history. All the times we had to say no to going out because we were scared. All the times we were made to feel uncomfortable in elevators because we were alone. All the times we were scared of our uncle or our, you know, this man that we met, you know, was a bit too skeevy, but we didn't know whether we were wrong and we were overreacting. We second-guessed ourselves all the time. I remember...
Dr. Mindy (05:39.117)
Ugh.
Dr. Mindy (05:50.591)
Ugh, all the time.
Shefali (05:52.492)
Nine-year-old me in a dentist chair and the dentist trying to kiss me and I'm like what the hell but I'm thinking I'm crazy I'm wrong I'm such so bitchy you know we internalized so much because we had no voice no language nobody to support us our mothers didn't tell us right I yelled at my mother when I turned 16 17 like why didn't you protect me and poor thing she said I didn't even know I didn't know this could even happen to you
Dr. Mindy (06:16.427)
Hmm, right.
Shefali (06:20.334)
And never mind it had happened to her, right? But she just didn't realize that this is a universal thing. So this is not about casting blame. This is about being first aware of our own pain. So we're all feeling very activated right now.
Dr. Mindy (06:23.425)
Yeah.
Dr. Mindy (06:35.659)
Yeah, and what do we, just on that, like, I had so many people tell me, Mindy, be careful, stop looking at those files. And I said, no, I need this to hurt right now so we never fall asleep again. And so it's something I've just done over the years. I call it Stir the Hurt so I can turn pain into some kind of purpose. So, the, mean, as a mother,
Like I vacillate between as a woman to as a mother, like as a mother, it is incredibly hard to take this information in. So what do we do with the pain before we move on to the other aspects? Like is there a way to process it properly?
Shefali (07:16.208)
Yes. Yes.
Yes, yes. So first I would tell people, if you can't stomach all the files, you kind of have a gist of what it is. It is the worst things you can imagine a human being doing because they're doing it to the most powerless, the most unprotected, the most hurt and weak and innocent, right? You're doing it to babies. So you don't have to look at the files, but I think what you're seeing is powerful. You cannot look away.
Dr. Mindy (07:30.349)
Mm-hmm.
Dr. Mindy (07:42.827)
Yeah.
Shefali (07:49.666)
And there is so much bypassing going on right now and people moving on with their lives. I couldn't even post about some courses that are coming up. I couldn't even tell people to buy anything because I said, what am I disconnected? Am I living in the La La Land? This is not business as usual. So we have to live in reality and take stock and admit it and sit in it. This is not about feeling good right now. This is about realizing
Dr. Mindy (07:58.594)
Yeah. Yeah.
Yes! I ha- Yup! No.
Dr. Mindy (08:18.037)
Hmm. Hmm. Hmm. Hmm. Yeah!
Shefali (08:19.162)
We are diseased. We are all part of it in some way or the other. are all, because just in our obeisance to celebrity, just in our bowing down to fame and power and wealth, we are complicit, right? So we have to really take ownership of our part in all of this, however small, and it hurts. And it's okay that it hurts because the children and...
Dr. Mindy (08:29.387)
Mm-hmm.
Mm-hmm. Yep.
Dr. Mindy (08:40.705)
Yep. Yep.
Shefali (08:44.708)
the babies hurt more and nobody even listened to them and they were silent. we as adults, we can handle this hurt and we need to sit in it. So there's no escaping it. And I would encourage people to talk about it. You know, people say, let's not talk about it. There's nothing we can do about it. No, no, no, no, no, no. We have to talk about it just so that we don't do our part in it and we can check others. And if we don't talk about it, how can we see
Dr. Mindy (09:06.316)
Yep.
Dr. Mindy (09:10.743)
Thank you.
Shefali (09:11.258)
People say, let's not talk about it because in their protection of themselves is a fantasy that it won't happen to us. And it's not people like you and me, it's those people out there. And that is the illusion and that is a lie. It is all of us to different degrees. So it may not be us to a baby and it may not be us to murder and all those horrible things, but it is us when we manipulate our children.
Dr. Mindy (09:24.49)
Mm-hmm.
Thank you. Yes.
Yes.
Shefali (09:39.952)
to even eat the scrambled eggs that they don't want to eat. It is us on the small and it is them on the extreme. But systemically, it is about a global epidemic of exploiting children and treating children as property. So we have to sit in it. We have to sit in it first before we even think about what to do with it. And we need to cry. We need to write in our journals. We need to have conversations like this.
Dr. Mindy (09:44.619)
Yeah, yeah.
Dr. Mindy (09:54.315)
Yep. Yep.
Dr. Mindy (10:00.205)
Mm-hmm.
Dr. Mindy (10:05.772)
Mm-hmm.
Shefali (10:07.726)
And we need to stop pretending it is the monster out there. It is the monster next door. It could be the monster on your Thanksgiving table. I'm sorry. This is a global problem of men and women, but it is definitely, I'm sorry to say, the elite white men who rule the world today and all their emissaries and all the people who suck up to them, including women.
Dr. Mindy (10:11.509)
Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.
Dr. Mindy (10:18.355)
Mm-hmm. Yeah, both. Agreed.
Dr. Mindy (10:26.644)
Mm-hmm. Yep.
Dr. Mindy (10:32.704)
Yes.
Shefali (10:36.87)
I mean, that is just... And defend them till they're blue in the face, you know? And yes, it takes courage to go against them. But here's what it is, Mindy. These are cowards. Because if they weren't cowards, they would not do it to children. They would do it to people who could fight them. They would do it with the biggest men out there and try it with them, right? But this is a cabal that... And also, we have to understand that those people who did it are brainwashed.
Dr. Mindy (10:36.993)
Yeah. That support them and back them up. Yep. Yep. Yep. Yep.
Dr. Mindy (10:50.347)
Yeah, for sure.
Dr. Mindy (10:55.531)
Mmm.
Shefali (11:06.424)
into this perversion. This is not to have compassion for them, but this is to understand the monster. The monster thinks this is the good thing to do, right? The white men who went into Africa and bought the slaves to us thought that they were genuinely superior. It's a delusional mindset. It's a sickness of the mind. And so it is here. And that is why anything that separates us is evil.
Dr. Mindy (11:06.647)
Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.
Dr. Mindy (11:27.799)
Yeah. Yep.
Shefali (11:36.428)
including many religions that say ours is better, yours is worse, we need to unify. And the only way to unify is to truly see that race and religion are illusions. There is no race, really, we're all the same. And religion is an illusion. these, quote unquote, monsters are infected by delusional belief systems that allow them to feel okay about this, right? It's a huge cognitive dissonance.
Dr. Mindy (11:38.817)
Mm-hmm. Mm. Mm-hmm.
Dr. Mindy (11:47.731)
Mm-hmm. Yes. Thank you.
Yes. Yes.
Dr. Mindy (12:04.147)
Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Yep.
Shefali (12:06.404)
Because they're okay with it. They actually think they are serving humanity by wiping all the rest of us out.
Dr. Mindy (12:14.037)
Yeah, you know, it's so interesting because I haven't had this conversation with very many people. I actually turned the idea of a patriarchal power over culture on myself.
And I was like, where have I engaged in this culture? And where can I disengage? And one of the places that I started was when it came out that the CEO of Abercrombie & Fitch and Victoria's Secret was one of the real core evil people that supported Epstein. And I had this moment in my mind, I was like, I flashed back to the 13-year-old girl that I was growing up in LA on the beaches of
Malibu and I remember thinking whenever I saw a Victoria's Secret commercial I interpreted that as I wasn't feminine enough. I wasn't a womanly enough because I didn't look like them and now you're telling me that that was curated by a pedophile, rapist, murderer, cannibalist?
What? And I have allowed that infection to be in my head for how many years? So I started shining the light on every place that I personally bought in to the culture.
Shefali (13:28.08)
Yes.
Shefali (13:34.89)
my God, we have all, all of us women have internalized the patriarchy and we are our own greatest perpetrators. I wrote a book called A Radical Awakening where I talk about how we co-create our own perpetration. And women did not like when I said that because they felt I was taking the spotlight away from the patriarchy. But ultimately our only way to release ourselves and liberate ourselves is to
Dr. Mindy (13:50.23)
Hmm.
Dr. Mindy (13:54.989)
Hmm.
Shefali (14:00.57)
disengage from the internal patriarch that lives in us now and then we do this to other women, right? We are perpetrating every time we post on Facebook that we, you know, a filtered face or, and I'm guilty of this as well and we don't own up to it. Every time I freaking wear my high heels, I am bowing down to the patriarchy that says I need to have a body that looks like that. we, and this.
Dr. Mindy (14:04.666)
Mm. You're right. yep.
Dr. Mindy (14:14.422)
Yes.
Dr. Mindy (14:22.54)
Yeah.
Do you know what high heels were originally designed to? They were designed to shorten your calves because that was more attractive to men.
Shefali (14:33.988)
Yes, right. So this is all we've all been played and we are all part of this, but we don't need to judge ourselves with excoriation. This is about compassion. But Mindy, it is about.
Dr. Mindy (14:44.246)
Yes.
Shefali (14:47.232)
opening our eyes, right? It is about waking up. And that means we have to look at our part and how other women have been complicit and part of the system. How can we change the system by only blaming one person? There is a whole network and we're all part of it just in the ways we idolize Abercrombie and Fitch, for example, or idolize Victoria's Secret, so idolize fame and glory and celebrity. So we have all done that.
Dr. Mindy (14:48.919)
Yep.
Dr. Mindy (14:57.992)
Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.
Dr. Mindy (15:04.076)
Yep.
Dr. Mindy (15:09.238)
Right.
Dr. Mindy (15:12.616)
Right. Right. Well...
So the whole Deepak Chopra thing, I've been reading a ton of articles about this and people are just completely blown away that this spiritual leader. And again, I had to turn it on myself and go, where have I been participating in my brand in a patriarchal way? And you start to see, it's so subtle. It's like getting on the next best podcast, trying to get your book to like playing the
to make it hit New York Times bestseller because then it'll have the patriarchal badge and then everybody will want it. It's the kissing ass to people that maybe you don't even really care about just so that they can shine some attention on you. It's so sneaky subtle and it's interesting. Here's an example that I used and I'm curious what you think about this. Do you remember when the article came out in the New York Times Magazine about Andrew Huberman?
Shefali (16:15.696)
Yes.
Dr. Mindy (16:15.849)
and he was dating five women at the same time that all thought they were in a monogamous relationship with him. Now, this was an alleged article. Nothing ever came about of it, but I thought, my gosh, people are gonna see through him now. You know what he did? He actually then brought on five women.
in or onto his podcast immediately or like the next people, the next interviewees were all powerful women that he brought on. And I thought, aren't they seeing this? He's using them to correct his reputation. And so I brought this to a friend who writes books and is in the space. And she said, yeah, but Mindy, they needed his power.
Shefali (17:00.88)
Mmm.
Dr. Mindy (17:01.889)
And I was like, we are totally screwed if we have to play the game because the man is the only one with the power. How do we start to shift that?
Shefali (17:04.422)
Mm-hmm.
Shefali (17:11.556)
Yeah. It takes a lot of guts, you know, and I speak about the struggle where the matrix, the ego of the matrix is always pulling us play the game, play the game, play the game. And I'm always trying to teach my coaches. have an institute, I train coaches and they get confused also, how much should we play the game? How much should we play the game? And I keep saying, you know, you have to resist the matrix. You have to be aligned with your own self.
Dr. Mindy (17:32.373)
Right?
Dr. Mindy (17:38.231)
Thank you.
Shefali (17:39.782)
because this game will swallow you because it is a game of artifice, is a game of corruption, it is a game of the patriarchy, it is a game of separation. So yes, we will be less popular, yes, your book will not hit the New York Times, yes, but all of it is rigged anyway and it is a game anyway. So do you want your audience to be filled with people who just are there for the superficiality of it, or do you want people there who are truly there for transformation?
Dr. Mindy (17:54.739)
Right? That's right.
Dr. Mindy (18:03.404)
Yep.
Shefali (18:07.034)
You know, I always say one is a million for that reason. You try for one person. teach my coaches go for one person because that is more genuine than filling stadiums. And we're seeing that now. We're seeing how empty followers are, followings are. It's a cult like mentality. And if you want to be part of the cult, you will be swallowed by the game and you will lose at the end because the game is so sneaky because it will stop at no end.
Dr. Mindy (18:08.055)
Thank you.
Dr. Mindy (18:15.307)
Yep.
Mm-hmm.
Yeah. Yeah. Yep.
Dr. Mindy (18:29.28)
That's right.
Shefali (18:36.89)
to get what it wants and you will be a pawn in the game. So you have to resist that and realize that your life needs to be aligned with your values and that takes courage in today's world and you have to be a maverick and you have to be a warrior and you have to stand by your own self if need be and sleep well at night and not sell your soul. I mean this is the key and that's what happened in this whole system you're seeing. All of them
Dr. Mindy (18:42.114)
Yep.
Dr. Mindy (18:48.659)
Mm-hmm. Yep.
Yep.
Dr. Mindy (18:57.515)
Yep.
Shefali (19:06.34)
began selling their soul for greed and power. And guess what? They've all lost the game. Because ultimately, there is no end to this. There is no end to this. And you have to see through the illusion, because the illusion is that, there is an end. There is an end called happiness. There is an end called contentment. I guess that's what they were all chasing. There is an end called I'm the most powerful person in the world.
Dr. Mindy (19:10.348)
Yes.
Dr. Mindy (19:16.681)
Mm-hmm. Yep.
Dr. Mindy (19:28.597)
Hmm. Yep.
Dr. Mindy (19:34.039)
Yep. Yep.
Shefali (19:34.158)
and it doesn't exist. is the mirage, the hologram that we're all chasing like zombies and we need to wake up. That's what awakening means. Wake up to the illusion that there is an end. There is no end except death.
Dr. Mindy (19:45.9)
Right, yeah. so, mic drop. We're neurochemical beings. So I always tell people dopamine is not the neurochemical that tells you that you've done enough. It's the molecule of more.
Shefali (20:02.832)
Yes.
Dr. Mindy (20:03.033)
And that we live in a dopamine saturated society where we are taught if you have a bigger house, you have more cars, you're a certain size. So if you have the right clothes, if you have the right friends, that this more more more outsourcing is a dead end street to your point because dopamine will never be satisfied, never ever satisfied.
Shefali (20:26.412)
Exactly, exactly, and I call it the psychology of more. And we're exactly talking the same thing because it is an incestuous beast and the dopamine of pursuit, right, will keep pursuing it. So, and that's why when we used to live in villages, in small groups on the earth, it checked us. The earth checked us by its changing climate. The other animals checked us and we checked each other. But the more we go in the citadels of our silos,
Dr. Mindy (20:43.51)
Hmm.
Shefali (20:56.152)
surrounded by cliffs and mansions in our landscaped existence, it gives us the illusion that we are in control. And the more we are in our little bubble, the more dangerous we are, because we truly think we are breathing a different air from the others. And we think we are immune. And that's why they are still unaccountable today, because we also don't know how to hold them accountable anymore, because we also worship them. They worship themselves.
Dr. Mindy (21:08.597)
Mm-hmm.
Dr. Mindy (21:12.534)
Hmm.
Mmm.
Dr. Mindy (21:24.019)
Right. Yep. Yep.
Shefali (21:25.442)
and we worship them because we are a global universe of worshipping the false gods of greed and power. And until we see that in ourselves, we will keep worshipping these false gods. And that's why they think they are godlike. And they are.
Dr. Mindy (21:37.419)
Mm-hmm.
Dr. Mindy (21:42.094)
Yeah, we've given them that title. So talk to me about rage because I...
Shefali (21:46.308)
Yes. Yes.
Dr. Mindy (21:53.664)
in the last couple weeks realized that I don't have a healthy relationship with anger. And I definitely don't have a healthy relationship with rage. And to me, there's a difference between the two. And then I have to go back to my childhood and realize, yeah, well, nobody ever taught me how to express difficult moments. And so I never got that skill set.
So you talk about, you say rage is human. I love this quote. Rage is human, but rage without wisdom will burn you out. Talk about that.
Shefali (22:30.032)
Yes, so rage is extreme anger, right? We are enraged, right? We say we are enraged and some moments in time require us to up the anger into rage. But rage can be a burning fire and consume us and it will take us down. So how do we temper the rage, but keep it rage, keep that fire burning, but temper it with wisdom and consciousness.
Dr. Mindy (22:34.049)
Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.
Dr. Mindy (22:42.465)
Mm-hmm.
Dr. Mindy (22:53.175)
Mm-hmm.
Shefali (22:58.66)
What that will look like is taking action that is thoughtful, that is meditative, that is reflective, and that is contextual. So when rage is without consciousness, we just act in rage, meaning in rage, not enrage, right? So when we are enraged, I-N-R-A-G-E, we are eating too much, drinking too much, screaming at our children, driving really crazily, picking up guns and shooting anybody. We don't want that kind of rage.
Dr. Mindy (23:06.957)
Hmm.
Dr. Mindy (23:14.902)
Mmm.
Dr. Mindy (23:21.675)
Hmm.
Dr. Mindy (23:28.075)
Mm-mm.
Shefali (23:28.578)
The rage I'm talking about is thoughtful, it can be articulated, we can speak about it, we can breathe through it, and we can think about it and then choose the best way to act on it. So we do not allow it to control us. So the minute we are in our physical self only without the power of observation, that is rage without consciousness. So...
Dr. Mindy (23:33.933)
Mm.
Dr. Mindy (23:43.853)
Mm.
Mm-hmm.
Dr. Mindy (23:55.597)
Mm.
Shefali (23:56.408)
In order to be conscious, we need to be observing ourselves like you've been doing. You've been reflecting. You've been thinking. You're not just picking up a gun and going to shoot somebody. That is stupidity. So we have to be very measured. And this is not about only blaming our politicians and only blaming old white rich men either. It is about stepping back and first asking, like you did, how does this show up in my life? How have I been?
Dr. Mindy (24:01.185)
Mm-hmm.
Dr. Mindy (24:04.941)
No.
Mm-hmm.
Dr. Mindy (24:11.911)
Mm-hmm. Right. Yep. Nope.
Dr. Mindy (24:23.223)
Mm-hmm.
Shefali (24:25.326)
a predator in my own life. People don't like to see themselves as that, but that is their illusion that they are not predators. We are also predators. Eating too much, drinking too much, consuming too much, buying too much, falling for different kinds of things. In that way, we are also consuming and predating and being greedy. So we have to look at the lion in our own self, the beast in our self. Then we have to look at how we control and exploit our children in our lives.
Dr. Mindy (24:30.348)
Mm-hmm.
Dr. Mindy (24:35.053)
Mm-hmm.
Dr. Mindy (24:45.268)
Mm-hmm, agreed.
Shefali (24:54.414)
and our partners, how we possess, own and control them. And let's work on our own self-hatred, right? There's so much hatred we have within ourselves. And then look at, how do I hate on others? How do I look at disabled people? How do I look at transgender people? How do I look at gay and bisexual people? How have I othered others in my own lives?
Dr. Mindy (24:54.733)
Hmm.
Hmm.
Dr. Mindy (25:02.893)
Mm-hmm.
Dr. Mindy (25:17.677)
Hmm.
Shefali (25:19.034)
You know, long time ago Mindy, I wrote an article for the Huffington Post and they denied it. It was called the inner jihadist, meaning don't just blame the jihadist outside. You have that inside you. And of course they didn't like that. But this is about extreme self-scrutiny and you begin to look at your own life and then you move into activist mode. Okay, given who I am, given what resources I have, how can I be an activist?
Dr. Mindy (25:26.632)
Mm-hmm.
Dr. Mindy (25:32.575)
Yep.
Mm-hmm.
Shefali (25:48.952)
It could be just talking to my 80 year old neighbor. It could be going to the rescue shelter and taking care of an animal today. It could be taking care of my own children. It could be going to the principal at my school and giving a talk. Where can I activate consciousness? And then you begin to do that. And you don't have to step on a stage and you don't have to protest if you don't want to. And you don't have to join Instagram. You can activate activism.
Dr. Mindy (25:52.171)
Mm-hmm.
Dr. Mindy (26:03.15)
Mm.
Shefali (26:14.55)
anywhere, but you have to be a mouthpiece for our children. I believe every adult has that sacred responsibility for the children that we once were, right? And we weren't silenced. So just for that, and then for all our little boys and girls, we have to speak up. And I take it with the humility that I could probably do nothing in the long run, but I'm going to do something nonetheless for somebody today.
Dr. Mindy (26:18.636)
Yep, agreed.
Dr. Mindy (26:24.354)
Yep, that's, Yep.
Dr. Mindy (26:31.053)
Yeah.
Dr. Mindy (26:39.67)
Yeah, agreed. Agreed. And I think it's simple. I like what you just said. So I had an experience where I was taking a bunch of boxes to the UPS store a couple days ago, and the guy helping me was moving very slowly. And so at first, I was just grateful. I was like, this guy seems so friendly. He's going to help me. I had a bunch of strange boxes I was sending. And then I figure out really quickly that the guy...
the way my brain was like, I don't think this guy, he's either new or he's not like the brightest crayon in the box. And then I caught myself saying that, and I was like, well, does it matter? I just need my boxes sent. I should just be grateful that he's here helping me send my boxes. And the half an hour I sat there, I moved back and forth between gratitude and judgment.
And I just kept catching the judgment. I'm like, look at there it is, Mindy. You're not in a hurry. This guy is helping you. He's how cool he has a job in a time when a lot of people don't have jobs. Like it was really interesting when you turn the mirror on yourself and use. so much.
Shefali (27:48.09)
There's a lot of work to do. We have a lot of internal. And you know, I'll give you one example. I was on vacation with my daughter and I saw a big man yelling at his seven year old son. So much so that he had to then take the boy was crying and then he took the boy to the corner. And my daughter saw me eavesdropping and glaring at him from far. And she said, mom, don't do anything. She was so scared that I was going to intervene. She knew me.
So I said, Maya, I have to do something. And she's like, please don't do something so embarrassing, mom, don't do. And I was like, she's, and I almost got into her helplessness and her, you know, image caretaking. And I was also scared that, I'll embarrass myself or, you he'll get angry with me. And I did the same thing like you. was like, should I just judge myself and say, you know, don't do this and don't be stupid and you look like a fool? Or should I enter compassion for the person, the victim, the child?
Dr. Mindy (28:20.878)
Hmm.
Dr. Mindy (28:30.22)
Mm-hmm.
Shefali (28:47.206)
and take action. And so I actually went up to the father and I just said, I'm so sorry, but don't you remember when you were his age? And I said, what if your dad was doing this to you, which his dad probably did. And I said, you've got to stop this now. And he actually stopped in the moment, in the moment. And so there's so many things we can do. We know.
Dr. Mindy (28:48.546)
Mm-hmm.
Dr. Mindy (28:56.416)
Mmm, it's beautiful.
Right.
Dr. Mindy (29:06.197)
Wow.
Shefali (29:10.992)
who are the disenfranchised people in our society. We know that most black men and black women on the street have been racially profiled and prejudiced. Go and talk to them and say hello and make them feel part of it. We know immigrants right now are shivering and shaking in their pants. Go and help an immigrant. Even if they're not, you can just try to be gentle and kind to anyone who you think may be persecuted right now.
Dr. Mindy (29:26.946)
Yeah.
Dr. Mindy (29:36.161)
Yeah.
Shefali (29:37.84)
There's so much you can do to help people right now, just with your energy, just with a smile. You can make, you know, I remember after 9-11 on the subway in New York, people were glaring at me, Mindy, because I look, I look from like I could be from Iran or Iraq or Pakistan, and I felt like, shit, they're all looking at me as if I'm the terrorist, right? So people's glares matter. so just in our look,
Dr. Mindy (29:42.21)
Yep. Yep.
Dr. Mindy (29:52.544)
wow. Yeah. wow.
Dr. Mindy (30:01.536)
Wow
Shefali (30:06.84)
saying hellos, getting up for an older person. There's so much we can do in our lives to help ourselves remember our oneness and enter love and compassion and support. Because what these monsters want right now from us is first to be distracted because you know there's something else happening in the rest of the world. There's going to be another war. This is all being played out. But also they want us to keep hating each other. They want us to be helpless and point fingers.
Dr. Mindy (30:26.754)
Yep. Yep.
Dr. Mindy (30:33.048)
grade.
Shefali (30:34.68)
And for the first time we can realize it wasn't us, right? We are not that. So we should just join together and stop fighting about whether you're pro-Israel or pro-Gaza. Stop it because we are all being played by them.
Dr. Mindy (30:39.054)
Right.
Dr. Mindy (30:49.41)
That's right. Do you think tribalism is hardwired into the human brain?
Shefali (30:54.948)
I think it is, so is xenophobia, right? We are wired to be afraid of threat, but the degrees to which we have taken it and manipulated that inbuilt sense of fear of the other, of the stranger, has been completely manipulated because now more than ever before, we don't need to be scared of each other because back then the resources were limited. That's why we were scared of each other.
Dr. Mindy (30:57.61)
Mmm.
Dr. Mindy (31:01.848)
Mm-hmm.
Dr. Mindy (31:06.478)
Mm.
Dr. Mindy (31:11.928)
Mm-hmm.
Dr. Mindy (31:23.272)
it's built into our evolutionary biology.
Shefali (31:26.756)
because we wanted the bananas or we wanted that deer and the other tribe was coming into our territory. But what excuse do we have now? So now we have constructed bullshit, you know, because they are not of our religion or not of our eye color or skin color. This is all constructed. This is not the truth. There is no such thing as race. It is a cultural, ideological setup that we've all fallen into.
Dr. Mindy (31:42.529)
Mm-hmm.
Dr. Mindy (31:49.004)
Yep. Yep. And you know, I spent a lot of time trying to understand the results of the last election too and what the mindset of people were. And I entered into some conversations with people who thought very differently, different than me. And what I learned is that there's a fear that somehow I'm not going to get my stuff or I'm not going to like somebody's taking something away from me.
And, know, interesting enough, I have a good friend whose son, he's white, tall white guy, and he got turned down three jobs, three really good jobs, and they told him, we need to hire a minority, and so we need to fill this position with a minority. And if we didn't need to do that, we would have hired you. so you can see that he's, talk about rage, he's like, they're taking my stuff.
Shefali (32:39.427)
my goodness.
Dr. Mindy (32:45.654)
And I've also heard that a lot of people who elected this administration into office felt that, that the immigrants are taking our stuff, that somebody's gonna come get what's mine. How do we deal with that?
Shefali (32:59.684)
Yes, but this is the most brilliant script of the playbook, right? It is the way to create hatred when you are manipulated into believing that somebody out there is the fault and cause of your misery, right? So let me just say something at a basic family level. The more disconnected we are, the more children and young adults, especially males, feel like they don't belong.
Dr. Mindy (33:05.57)
Mm.
Dr. Mindy (33:18.359)
Hmm.
Shefali (33:29.486)
and that they're not valued or useful. And with AI coming, young men are more and more displaced. As women are rising, young men are feeling more and more disenfranchised. That is what the MAGA movement capitalized on and chose to incite because they saw a vulnerability there and they helped those young males to feel that their anger and misery has a place to go.
Dr. Mindy (33:29.55)
Mm.
Dr. Mindy (33:35.222)
yeah.
Dr. Mindy (33:44.696)
Mm.
Dr. Mindy (33:48.045)
Yep.
Shefali (33:58.734)
and they directed it towards women and people of color. So that is why we have the Red Pill Community that is so thriving because it capitalized on the disenfranchisement of young, mostly white males who were feeling listless. All of us are feeling like AI is going to take our job, but they targeted them and said, there's a reason why you are feeling this way. And it is the minorities, the women, the people of color. And so they helped them channel that.
Dr. Mindy (34:21.486)
Mmm.
Shefali (34:27.6)
frustration and attack us. And it's very, very powerful. When you give people an arrow or a target to shoot their arrows, then they feel like they're doing something. Because otherwise, they have to turn it inward and take responsibility and accountability. So that's too painful. We know that. So that's why the MAGA movement has done that. And that's why the Red Pill community and the Manosphere is thriving. And that's why our young men are in trouble today.
Dr. Mindy (34:32.483)
Yep.
Dr. Mindy (34:39.214)
you
Dr. Mindy (34:45.847)
Yeah.
Dr. Mindy (34:55.267)
Yep.
Shefali (34:55.908)
And that's why I help parents deal with boys and treat boys differently because we need to make sure our young boys don't grow up to become these young men who will be prey to this kind of ideology when they grow up.
Dr. Mindy (35:07.906)
Yeah, it's such a good point. And I'm a mother of a boy and a girl. Well, they're a man and a woman now, 26 and 23. And my son was, my daughter was born first, my son was second. And I took parenting them very serious in the sense that I parented them very differently. So my daughter, I read a book called Growing a Girl. And I don't know if you've ever read that book. It was, you know,
Shefali (35:29.04)
Yes.
Dr. Mindy (35:35.758)
old old book and it talked about how you know the Disney movies really put out this signal of like you need a man to be able to save you and the book suggested you sit on the couch next to your daughter while the movie's going on and start to poke holes in that so I would sit next like with Sleeping Beauty I remember saying to my daughter like do you think it's interesting do you think she needs a man to wake up or do think she could wake up on her own?
And so I just started posing questions to start to get their little brains going. My son, on the other hand, when he would get mad, he wanted to withdraw. And so, and we would end up in these discussions at five and six years old, and I would sit with him and I would say, how I know you're listening to me is when you look at me in the eye. So can you at least look at me in the eye so we can have this difficult conversation? And it really hit me that
about how this strategy, I'm super proud of my children, and how this strategy worked. And then I saw your post yesterday about empathy and how we are not giving children the ability to have a full spectrum of emotions. And I started to think of my childhood where only joy was accepted in that household. If you were anything other than joyful, you were gonna need to change your attitude.
Shefali (37:03.184)
Mm-hmm.
Dr. Mindy (37:04.122)
So how how do we a there's two converse parts of this conversation. One is, of course, we have to go down to our children. A lot of my listeners have grandchildren to teach the full spectrum of emotions that we should be having as humans. But what if I'm 56 years old and I never got taught?
Shefali (37:22.863)
Yes.
Dr. Mindy (37:28.498)
how to experience the full spectrum of emotions that the human heart can hold. What do I do there?
Shefali (37:33.968)
Yeah, yeah, yeah. Okay, so you've said lots of things, so let me just touch, I was cataloging all the things you were saying. So just the first part in the Disney movie and this whole global messaging around keeping women dependent on men. Yes, that is the arc. We see it all the time. Suppressing girls, not allowing them to step into their sexuality, their power, their bodies, and also taming them to
Dr. Mindy (37:39.852)
Yeah. Thank you.
Shefali (38:03.194)
feel like they need men to wake them up. The motive is everywhere. It is in all our religious texts of the Western monotheistic world. So you worship a male god who is course white and blue-eyed, or whatever his son was, or he's a mystery, but it's a he. It's a he, it's a he, it's a he. And we need to understand that this plays on the female psychology and we transmit this subservience to our girls.
Dr. Mindy (38:05.613)
Right.
Dr. Mindy (38:15.819)
Right.
Dr. Mindy (38:21.101)
Right.
Shefali (38:32.81)
transmit the potency to our boys, right? They begin to think they are getting a free pass at life. Like, wow, I must be special because I'm not being told I need to be a good anything, a good wife, a good, a good partner. I'm allowed to just protect and be strong. different messaging. Number two, I'm so glad you treated your son and daughter differently. You know, these are my two next books, Raising Conscious Sons and Raising Conscious Daughters. And I wrote books for different
Dr. Mindy (38:36.013)
Mm-hmm.
Dr. Mindy (38:39.619)
Yep.
Dr. Mindy (38:48.621)
Mm-hmm.
Dr. Mindy (38:54.392)
Thank you. I can't wait to talk about them again.
Shefali (39:01.57)
sexes because there is a difference and of course it's a continuum but it is important to understand that culture treats girls and boys differently whatever you say and whoever you are and however you identify it doesn't matter culture will treat you differently and we need to combat that like you did with your daughter. Now the third thing is how do we teach our children empathy and then how what do we do with ourselves if we never gave ourselves empathy?
Dr. Mindy (39:03.861)
Mm-hmm.
Dr. Mindy (39:17.538)
Mm-hmm.
Shefali (39:30.426)
Teaching our children empathy, the first step is that we have to allow the hardship and the jagged edges of life to hurt them. Meaning, if you keep protecting them in a gilded castle and allow them to feel like they walk on water, they're not going to develop empathy. I became a more empathic mother every time I screwed up.
Dr. Mindy (39:42.446)
Mmm.
Dr. Mindy (39:48.387)
Yeah.
Shefali (39:59.684)
because I had pain. So if I was shielded from my screw ups, I would think I walked on water. In fact, I walked on water as a parent before I became a parent. I thought.
Dr. Mindy (39:59.778)
Hmm. Yep.
Dr. Mindy (40:08.398)
Mmm.
Dr. Mindy (40:12.431)
yeah, my god, I love that. I love that. It's like I was a great parent before I had kids.
Shefali (40:16.644)
Yes, we were so amazing, weren't we? So the more we protect our children from their natural life, and I'm not talking about dumping trauma on them. I'm talking about when they don't get invited to the birthday party. Yeah, because they're not special. They're unique, but they're not special. Right. I say this all the time to my daughter. You are so unique and you're very special to me. But once you step out of this house, you are just a human being. So act.
Dr. Mindy (40:26.381)
Mm-hmm.
Mm-hmm.
Mm. Yep. Well said.
Shefali (40:44.098)
like you are one of many. don't, you're not above or below anybody. You're just one off because children shouldn't be made to feel like they are exempt from life's jagged edges. No one is more special. And that's what you will see with a lot of these younger generations who are so fragile is because somehow we've given them too much that they almost feel as if they're entitled to it. And sorry to say,
Dr. Mindy (40:55.542)
Mm-hmm.
Dr. Mindy (41:04.651)
Mm-hmm.
Dr. Mindy (41:10.284)
Yes, agreed. Yep. Yep.
Shefali (41:11.81)
A lot of white men feel that they are, a lot, not all of them, and a lot of men, not all of them, feel that they are entitled to women's bodies and they cannot take rejection, right? They cannot take rejection. So we parents have to teach our boys, you are not so special, you will be rejected by every girl and in fact, nine out of 10 are going to reject you. What are you going to do with your feelings? Are you going to go yell at the girls? Are you going to go drink? You will be rejected. So we need to teach our children rejection.
Dr. Mindy (41:21.324)
Yep. Yep. Yep.
That's right.
Dr. Mindy (41:34.648)
Beautiful.
Dr. Mindy (41:42.158)
Beautiful.
Shefali (41:42.232)
And so they're not invited to the birthday party. Yeah, it sucks, but sorry, not everyone is going to like you. You are not walking on water. Yeah, you'll always be invited to my party, but you're not going to be invited to everybody's party. And it sucks. I'm sorry. I'm not invited to everybody's party. I'm not that special. we must teach our children. So empathy is developed through experiencing your own pain and being allowed to go through the pain with a loving, caring, supportive, regulated caregiver.
Dr. Mindy (41:48.012)
Yep.
Dr. Mindy (42:05.776)
Mmm. Mmm.
Dr. Mindy (42:12.076)
Mm-hmm.
Shefali (42:12.24)
but not being stolen from your pain. Don't steal your children from their natural pain. Now next, what do you do with an adult when you were never allowed to experience pain in your life? The beautiful thing with pain is that it's longing to be expressed. So even if you're 56 years old and you've never allowed to express it, you are expressing it just in hidden ways, meaning you are over-pleasing.
Dr. Mindy (42:17.944)
Beautiful, yep.
Dr. Mindy (42:24.62)
Mm-hmm.
Dr. Mindy (42:38.615)
Mm-hmm.
Shefali (42:40.642)
saying yes when you want to say no, you're bullshitting your way through all your life, you actually are sick and tired of your friends and your partner and your career, but you're just lying. So if you gave yourself permission to really ask, am I living in my truth? Honestly, your pain will show up. Your pain is, pain doesn't go away, it's always there. It's just mutated, it's just disguised. So it may just look like you, you know, looking, wearing those stilettos and those high heels and you're, you're hurting.
Dr. Mindy (42:49.678)
Hmm.
Dr. Mindy (42:58.868)
Hmm. Hmm. Interesting.
Shefali (43:10.436)
But you're like, no, I look so beautiful, but you're bullshitting, you're lying, you actually hate it. And you're lying to yourself. We are lying to ourselves. We just haven't yet gotten out of our denial about it. And 56, I really believe the menopausal years, right, after menopause, are the years to stop bullshitting and to stop subscribing.
Dr. Mindy (43:13.367)
Yeah.
Dr. Mindy (43:22.506)
Yes, yes.
Dr. Mindy (43:32.43)
That's right.
Shefali (43:35.136)
and to say no more, I'm not going to lie to myself because I am actually the one who is lying to myself more than anybody else is lying to me.
Dr. Mindy (43:43.948)
Yeah. my God, so well said. That was the heart of my last book, Aged Like a Girl, was that the brain changes that actually happen through the menopausal process makes us incredible leaders and we're supposed to lead. And I keep thinking, let's gather the post-menopausal women right now because they have wisdom, their brains have rewired, and it's our moment to stand up and start to tell our truth.
But as I brought that book forward, just like you've experienced in different books, it's really interesting to see how some women are so scared to step into their power, even at 60 and 65. It's so deep.
Shefali (44:25.518)
It's deep, it's deep. The brainwashing is so deep. It's, you know, how can you blame us, right? When we were so young, between zero and seven, and that's why it's so heartbreaking to believe that this is happening to children under the age of seven, that we're so vulnerable because we don't have language, we are in a dreamlike state, and whatever belief systems our parents have, we inherit.
Dr. Mindy (44:41.719)
Right.
Shefali (44:55.194)
That's why I talk about consciousness of the parent is so important. Please don't give your children your garbage belief systems because then you will raise that racist, will raise that sexist, you will raise the perpetrator. And sadly, that's why so many of us women have a hard time stepping out because we were so subjugated in childhood. So, you know, we have to have compassion at some point because those women are just stuck there and they live in great fear.
Dr. Mindy (45:03.555)
Yes.
Dr. Mindy (45:08.92)
Yeah.
Dr. Mindy (45:17.942)
Yep.
Dr. Mindy (45:23.127)
Right.
Shefali (45:25.238)
and they're still waiting for daddy to come home with the stick or with the loud voice. They're terrified. And you know, I cannot tell you how few women I've met that have not been sexually perpetrated, you know? And even with my daughter, she's not been, but I have to keep checking, you know? I'm like, are you sure? Like, how has this, how have you not been? Like, because everyone I know in my generation, everyone I know has been.
Dr. Mindy (45:30.924)
Yep. Yep.
Dr. Mindy (45:39.5)
Yep. Yep.
Dr. Mindy (45:44.366)
Mm. Mm. Right.
Shefali (45:52.014)
either molested or perpetrated or abused in some way and I'm grateful that she hasn't experienced it because I believe the language and the tide is changing a little bit and we're calling these men out. And let me tell you, many times I will talk to men who are so in their heart and who love women and want to protect women and children and they will say that they are so boggled by how much power women give them because they know they're not deserving of all this power.
Dr. Mindy (46:17.294)
Mmm.
Shefali (46:19.908)
Right? And they know that all they have is a bigger body. But they know that they should never disrespect that power. But most other men don't know that. And that's why I'm sorry to say it's incumbent on us women to teach our sons to reign in that power and to understand consent and to never abuse another's body just because you can.
Dr. Mindy (46:20.96)
Interesting. Yeah, interesting.
Yeah.
Dr. Mindy (46:45.152)
Yeah, and in that vein, I'll tell you one thing I've been doing. I actually I'm married to an incredible man. And I noticed after reading all these comments, I said to him, you know, we've known each other since we were 21 years old. And I have never heard you engage in locker room talk ever, not with your friends, not around me. And he's like, I just I don't think like that. And I'm like that.
That seems unusual right now. I really appreciate that that has been who you were. Then I recently was talking to my son who's 23 and he's got a serious girlfriend and we were actually all out surfing and she was incredible at surfing. And I turned to my son and I said, is Margo bad at anything? And he looked at me and he goes, I don't know, mom, I only like to look for the good things in Margo.
And I called him later and I just made sure, cause he's 23, I was like.
You are such a kind man. Thank you for that. So I think there is, this is not a men versus women issue. We need to gather everyone who wants to start to build a world that I call power together. I think the patriarchal culture is power over. It's a structure that wants to hold its power. And I think we need to create a new world that's more of a matriarchal energy, which is we discover how
much power we individually have and that we come together and share that power. That's the world I keep dreaming like the opening is there. How do we create that? And I think it's gonna be in the small conversations like applauding men who are just incredible and smiling so many men.
Shefali (48:27.108)
Yeah.
Shefali (48:36.268)
Incredible. So many men. So many men are incredible because the patriarchy hurts those men too. The patriarchy is hurting everybody. The only ones who are quote unquote winning are the soulless zombies who we pedestalize and give them the wealth and power. Those are the only men that are really winning. But they're not winning either and I'm not saying this to have compassion for them. I'm just saying they are zombies. They are
Dr. Mindy (48:44.566)
Yes. Yes.
Shefali (49:04.272)
completely automatons. And that's where we have to wake up and realize, don't follow them. Those are soulless monsters who we should just shun. So it's incumbent on us to awaken that truth telling and that radar. We have it. We just dumb it down because they live in mansions and, you know, drive Bentley's. That's it. So we need to stop being taken up by the external.
Dr. Mindy (49:18.978)
Mm-hmm.
Dr. Mindy (49:24.758)
Right? Yes, yes.
Shefali (49:32.658)
artificialities of life and now demand people on social media to show up authentically or we don't follow them. And if we don't feel their soul and we don't feel their expertise, you're a doctor, I'm a doctor. I'm really sorry to say, don't follow people. I know Deepak Chopra was a doctor too, but he was giving advice that was out of his league. Stay in your lane. Anybody who's giving you advice that's out of their lane.
Dr. Mindy (49:39.746)
Mm-hmm.
Mm-hmm.
Dr. Mindy (49:51.662)
Right.
Right, stay in your lane, yep.
Dr. Mindy (50:00.844)
Yep, agreed.
Shefali (50:01.828)
Be so worthy that you don't go to the person who can give you the right advice. If we are hungry inside, we will take any advice from anybody who looks good, who sounds good. So don't get beguiled by it. On my podcast, for example, I get solicited to do ads for different supplements. And I love it because they send me things home. But I try not to do that.
Dr. Mindy (50:10.349)
Mm.
Mmm, so true.
Shefali (50:29.506)
except if it's one or two for my neutrophil or something like that, where I can genuinely say I tried it, because it's not my lane to talk about things that I'm not aware of. So even though I'm losing money, I won't go out of my lane as far as I can be aware. But as consumers, we cannot just blame the Deepak Chopras. We have to also take accountability as consumers of the Deepak Chopras.
Dr. Mindy (50:37.505)
Yes.
Dr. Mindy (50:44.963)
Yes.
Yeah.
Shefali (50:57.05)
You know, you have willpower. Don't just follow anybody, right? Only follow people who ring true over time, who have stood the test of time, who've passed the litmus test. Only then allow their words to penetrate your brain. Your mind space is very valuable. Don't allow anybody to just talk to you.
Dr. Mindy (50:57.111)
Yep.
Yeah.
Dr. Mindy (51:10.498)
Yep.
Dr. Mindy (51:15.01)
Yep. You know, you're the only podcaster that I have met that has refused endorsements because either you're not aligned with it or it's not in your lane. I went there about two years ago where I was like...
This is crazy. Why am I supporting all these other products? Like my podcast is to help. My podcast is to give information. You know, I don't need to be bought right now. And I think that we, the wellness culture is taking a very big hit right now because we've created these gurus and we've put these gurus up on a pedestal and all the companies know this. Like if you sit up there and you hold a product up, you're going to make a bazillion dollars or that
company is gonna make a bazillion dollars. And what I really hope changes from this moment, I've seen a lot of conversation around is the guru done? Is the celebrity over? And...
Shefali (52:12.976)
Yeah, I think it will be the best thing. And this doesn't mean all celebrity, I have so many amazing celebrity friends. It is the celebrity worship that needs to end, right? And we need to get people off the pedestal and down to earth. You know, even when I was doing my podcast, and let me just caveat, I do talk about some products, but the ones that I've used myself, that's it, you know? And I've said no, and my producers,
Dr. Mindy (52:17.422)
agreed.
Dr. Mindy (52:25.6)
Yes, agreed.
Dr. Mindy (52:37.342)
Right, the ones you love, yeah.
Shefali (52:42.97)
They just understand that about me now. You know, I've been asked to speak at events of liquor companies where they threw a shit ton of money on me. And I said, no, there was no way because I cannot promote things that inebriate and toxify you and talk wellness. I cannot, right? So I try to align myself and I'm sure I've fallen astray without realizing it.
Dr. Mindy (52:44.748)
Mm-hmm.
Dr. Mindy (52:53.378)
Yep.
Dr. Mindy (53:01.718)
Yes.
Shefali (53:06.425)
But even on my podcast, only, try to, for the most part, only take quote unquote regular parents and regular people because I want to, I don't need to chase celebrities and it's a disservice because I don't get the following, I don't get the ratings, but then it's okay, right? So it's a trade off and this is not to shun celebrities. Celebrities are not the problem. It is blind celebrity worship that is the problem.
Dr. Mindy (53:14.272)
Mmm. Mmm, it's beautiful.
Dr. Mindy (53:24.163)
Yeah.
Dr. Mindy (53:33.866)
Yeah, it's so beautiful. So where do we go from this moment? Because what I, the upside of this moment, I think, is that it's like the patriarchal veil has been pulled back and people are like, that's what you mean by the patriarch. And I think that we are seeing the ugliest of ugly, how this system tried to hold on.
But I also don't feel like a new energy or a new world has created. And this is one thing that I'm trying to create in conversations like this. And so if we were to give people, you've given some great advice, and if we were to give people, like every time you lose your way in this patriarchal conversation, come back to these core principles.
What would those core principles be so that we can start to spot when the patriarch is manipulating us? Do we have a list of like fear, scarcity, othering? Like, I almost want to get a whiteboard and be like, here's what the patriarch does to put you to sleep and here's the new energy we can create.
Shefali (54:46.918)
Yes, yes. So you said it. Scarcity and fear are the two main tools that they use. I'm growing too old. There's not enough, you know, there's not enough money or resources or jobs out there. They will play on you in all sorts of ways. It could even be there's a big cyclone coming. There's a big cyclone coming. Go and buy toilet paper. Like they will do anything because their outcome is capitalism. So anything that makes you buy and hatred.
Dr. Mindy (55:05.86)
yeah.
Dr. Mindy (55:12.342)
Mmm. Mmm.
Shefali (55:15.992)
makes you buy more because you have to buy a bigger house in the better neighborhood to stay away from those people and you have to fly first class to stay away from those people. So anything that makes you buy incessantly. So what are the muscles we can build to immunize that is true presence, right? So community, community that is mindful. And in my community, I just started meditation every day. So meditation, which brings you back to the present moment.
Dr. Mindy (55:19.178)
Mmm.
Dr. Mindy (55:29.784)
Thank you.
Dr. Mindy (55:42.2)
Beautiful.
Shefali (55:46.096)
which keeps you connected to yourself, which allows you to be in solitude without rampant hunger for things and other people and validation. These things create such a sturdy connection to yourself, you're not going to be uprooted that easily. You're not going to be swayed that easily. So I would say community, which is connection to others who are conscious, and then a conscious connection to yourself.
Dr. Mindy (55:54.478)
Mm.
Dr. Mindy (56:03.472)
Mm. Mm-hmm.
Dr. Mindy (56:11.566)
Mm.
Shefali (56:11.674)
But this needs to be cultivated. You have to go find that community and you have to meditate. You have to sit in your practice and be in your stillness. And then that will move outward to your children, to your neighbors, to your friends. Just do that. If you do that, like, don't you wonder sometimes when you read the Jeffrey Epstein files, you're like, when did they have the time to do all this? Right?
Dr. Mindy (56:15.01)
Yep.
Dr. Mindy (56:26.445)
Yes.
Dr. Mindy (56:34.711)
That's a point. It's a very good point. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.
Shefali (56:37.188)
How did they, I'm like, I don't even have the time to wish my best friend a happy birthday because I'm busy in my own existence and living my own life. They lived a life only of exploitation of the whole life. So think about it. You cannot be connected to yourself if you need to fill yourself with so much predation, with so much consumption, with buying new houses and islands and things and people and going to parties.
Dr. Mindy (56:46.445)
Yeah.
Dr. Mindy (56:50.263)
Mm-hmm.
Dr. Mindy (56:56.078)
Mm.
Dr. Mindy (57:00.206)
Mmm.
Shefali (57:06.958)
So that is a sure sign that somebody is off their center if they are living a life of so much external acquisition. So in my own life, I see my accounts. If I'm spending too much, I know I am off my course. I am going off the deep end. So these are the signs. And a sign of a life well lived is a sign of less consumption, less going out, less needing others. Really, it's the life of the monk.
Dr. Mindy (57:11.15)
Mm.
Dr. Mindy (57:15.374)
Mmm.
Dr. Mindy (57:22.304)
it's beautiful.
Dr. Mindy (57:26.06)
Love that.
Dr. Mindy (57:34.683)
Mm. Mm. Yeah.
Shefali (57:35.28)
The one who's connected though, not somebody who's living on a tree top somewhere far away, someone who's very much in this life.
Dr. Mindy (57:44.494)
Yeah, I just became a huge fan of Substack this year. I've started a Substack, I'm reading Substacks, and one of the Substacks that I've subscribed to is Ram Dass's teachings. And the title of the article that came out this week is, What is boredom?
Shefali (57:55.973)
Mm-hmm.
Dr. Mindy (58:00.972)
And I dove into the article and it was talking about how a lot of people come to meditation because they think there's gonna be some huge transformation and they find that it's really boring. But what it does is it teaches your nervous system to move out of the excess stimulation. And when I hear what you're saying there, I think the phone, the purchasing, the vast amount of information we can take
in right now, all of that has over saturated our brains that we don't really know how to get into the simple life you're talking about. So I keep thinking there has to be a bridge and maybe meditation is it, maybe it's nature. I found so much healing in nature over the last year, but there's something that's going to take us from this overstimulated world that we have been caught into, right?
down to how many of us look at our phone at a stoplight. Like that's the overstimulation. And we're gonna have to learn how to find contentment in the simple and the mundane. And that is where I get a little nervous. I'm like, are we gonna be able to do that as a culture? So I'm, yeah, how do we do that?
Shefali (59:21.51)
Yeah, big and the clear answer is no, but because you're talking about a mass movement, but we can do small movements, right? So just for people listening, you can come to my community for free. have a gift pass for 30 days. Come meditate with us every day. And I have 170 free meditations. I did one every day during COVID, Mindy, every day I gave a free meditation because I needed to keep saying myself.
Dr. Mindy (59:39.661)
Amazing.
Dr. Mindy (59:45.751)
Wow.
Shefali (59:50.978)
So there is a tool, it's a free tool, it's called meditation, it's not religious. It is about observing your own mind and coming back to yourself. There is nothing more elegant and more easily accessible than following your breath. So there's no excuse is what I'm saying. But people have to want to live a different life and want a different existence. Meditation teaches you to appreciate the present moment.
Dr. Mindy (59:51.086)
Mm.
Dr. Mindy (59:56.448)
Mm-hmm.
Mmm.
Dr. Mindy (01:00:08.27)
Mm. Mm, it's beautiful.
Shefali (01:00:20.87)
Like it's like you've been given like 50 million dollars every minute, you know, and you're like, oh my God, oh my God. But because we are on our phones and because we're distracted and numb, we're missing the beauty of our life. We're just missing it for the garbage that they are giving us and we are consuming. We're consuming videos, you know, I posted a video yesterday. You saw it 20 minutes.
Dr. Mindy (01:00:26.327)
Yeah.
Dr. Mindy (01:00:34.689)
Yeah.
Dr. Mindy (01:00:39.211)
Right.
Dr. Mindy (01:00:43.341)
Yep.
Shefali (01:00:46.266)
Guess what? Instagram doesn't let me boost it because it will not reward me because it's 20 minutes. So it's rewiring our brains to only want short form because it knows dopamine spikes will keep me coming back for more. And long form, though that is more meaningful, people won't scroll to the next advertiser. So they can't hook us more easily. So we're being played.
Dr. Mindy (01:00:51.885)
Wow.
Dr. Mindy (01:01:09.634)
Yes.
Shefali (01:01:13.694)
And every time you're scrolling on Instagram, even if you're listening to Mindy and me, you are still not listening to yourself as much. We would rather you stop and listen to yourself.
Dr. Mindy (01:01:22.678)
Hmm. It's beautiful. It's beautiful. I've been saying that about the algorithm. I'm like, you know, let me pull back the veil of what it's like to be a creator. There is sort of a master to serve, which is the algorithm. And like the algorithm puts you in a lane and then you got to stay in that lane. And it's it's that.
whole game you called it a game I've been calling it a game I'm really working to unhook myself from which is why I ended up over on sub stack I'm like I need to go somewhere where there's a little more gentle people want to read people want to discuss
Shefali (01:01:59.738)
Yes, and that's why I created my community to get away from this. And I posted the 20 minute video because I said, fuck the algorithm. mean, fuck it. I cannot talk in three minutes and for the, to say the people who want the three minute go to somebody else, you know? And so we have to choose now very carefully and be very selective about who we surround ourselves with. And this is a beautiful practice to practice discernment.
Dr. Mindy (01:02:10.274)
Yeah.
Dr. Mindy (01:02:14.284)
Yeah, that's right.
Dr. Mindy (01:02:23.917)
Yep.
Shefali (01:02:28.066)
stay away from the maddening crowds. You know, I'm going to Australia next month, Mindy, and I did not sell out the whole theater, okay? Because the tour guy booked a 2,000 place theater. like, are you crazy? He had more. I was like, I'm not some rock star. I'm a parent who teaches the hardest thing on earth called conscious parenting. Nobody wants to do that.
Dr. Mindy (01:02:40.526)
my gosh, wow.
You
Dr. Mindy (01:02:51.17)
That's so funny.
Shefali (01:02:51.206)
I depress parents. They don't like, they don't want my message. You know, I'm not making them feel good about themselves. I'm making them look in the mirror. But I told him that the people who show up are coming for true transformation. So stop chasing the numbers. Stop chasing the numbers. Be happy with your 10 people. Those 10 people are truly going to change.
Dr. Mindy (01:02:58.445)
Yeah.
Dr. Mindy (01:03:10.39)
Yes, yes. Yeah. Yep.
Shefali (01:03:18.906)
versus the 5,000 masses who are coming for this show, for the entertainment. You know, when I do my summits, my ego tells me I should have entertainers and fire eaters and acrobats, and I should have 15 speakers every hour, you know, like an algorithm, like a feed. And I don't. It's just me on stage, maybe one other guest for 15 hours. I'm like, I'm sorry. That's all you're gonna get. Because are we selling entertainment?
Dr. Mindy (01:03:22.722)
That's right.
Dr. Mindy (01:03:38.253)
Yeah.
Dr. Mindy (01:03:44.865)
I love it.
Shefali (01:03:48.11)
Or are we selling a teaching which takes work? And it's ordinary, like you said, and it's unglamorous and unsophisticated and dull. But that is really what we need to confront about ourselves and start loving ourselves for, because we all are that, pretending like the emperor without any clothes, that we have all this pizzazz. That's why people live in these huge mansions. And I know when I'm dressed up extra extra, it's because I'm feeling
Dr. Mindy (01:03:51.822)
Mmm.
Dr. Mindy (01:03:57.454)
Hmm.
Dr. Mindy (01:04:01.646)
Mmm.
Hmm.
Shefali (01:04:16.228)
Like I need to compete. Why do I need to compete? Because I'm not feeling, my little girl wants attention. Why? Because I'm not yet in my wholeness. So we need to all try to get back into our self-acceptance. And that's where the work starts. And if we can all do that, we will stop predating on other people.
Dr. Mindy (01:04:17.646)
Mmm.
Mmm.
Dr. Mindy (01:04:24.974)
Mm-hmm. It's beautiful.
Dr. Mindy (01:04:32.654)
Mm.
Dr. Mindy (01:04:37.194)
Hmm, mic drop again. That was so beautiful. Well, I love this. I mean, I feel I feel really seen in this conversation and heard because some of the things that have been stirring inside me for the last couple of years in the wellness influencer world is not is not your typical.
feeling response and when I hear you talk about these things like unhooking and I love the thing about the stadium of people, like is it the number of people or it is the impact you make on those people? These are kind of things that we talk about all the time in my business. I just really appreciate the way you lead. So thank you for that.
Shefali (01:05:17.434)
And I appreciate you. met you recently backstage at a conference and you have this light about you and no airs. And that's why I was so drawn to you immediately. And we quote unquote leaders need to be transparent and need to be open and stop surrounding ourselves with our entourage because as if we're so important, I don't even have an entourage. I don't have anybody.
Dr. Mindy (01:05:27.963)
Thank you.
Thank you.
Dr. Mindy (01:05:35.926)
Yes. Yes.
Dr. Mindy (01:05:42.732)
Yes, beautiful.
Shefali (01:05:46.124)
And the other day I showed up at a meeting and they were so shocked that Dr. Shefali showed up. And I said, I'm so sorry, it's just me, you know, like I show up and I want to show up because it's my business. It's my values. And that, of course I need to grow. And I know that, but I don't need to grow because it's a should or it's a law by the patriarchy. It's when I want it. Right. And people think that I need to have
Dr. Mindy (01:06:07.67)
Mm. Mm-hmm.
Shefali (01:06:15.992)
a team of 55 people. I need to have millions and millions of dollars, otherwise I won't be seen as significant. And you and I show up so as ourselves, and we need to lead that way and not be afraid to be who we are, you know, and not just because others have entourages doesn't mean we need to have entourages, you know, and I think more people who see that transparency gives them permission to be transparent themselves too.
Dr. Mindy (01:06:18.615)
Mm-hmm.
Dr. Mindy (01:06:24.226)
That's right.
Dr. Mindy (01:06:28.386)
Yep.
Dr. Mindy (01:06:33.815)
Yep.
Dr. Mindy (01:06:37.226)
That's right. That's right.
Dr. Mindy (01:06:45.45)
Yeah, you you reminded me when Fasig a girl first took off, it panicked me.
because and I didn't I was like that my my socials were flooded with new followers. The book was was doing incredibly well. And so this is how Dr. Sarah says all and I became friends because I called her and I was like, I need your help. And I and I'm like, you've come before me. And I'm like, I'm worried that if I allow this this new game I'm playing to identify myself worth what's going to happen when the likes and the
follow stop and what's going to happen if they don't like the next book. And it was really interesting because she said to me, well, Mindy, you need to decide what kind of cultural leader you want to be. And I've spent the last couple of years really thinking about that. And today you gave me just another lens in which I want to continue to lead from authenticity. And I just appreciate it. It's again, it's like I found a kindred soul. So thank you.
Shefali (01:07:51.024)
I'll say one more thing Mindy, which I tell people all the time. If you identify as you are the message and you are the one people are coming to, you will be doomed, right? It is the message. So as long as the message is in front of you and you are a servant of the message, your ego will be in check because the message is bigger than you. So when people tell me, come in crying, you've changed my life.
Dr. Mindy (01:07:52.684)
Yeah.
Dr. Mindy (01:08:01.356)
Yes. Yes. Yes.
Dr. Mindy (01:08:10.84)
Beautiful. Yeah. Yep.
Shefali (01:08:17.254)
I know what they mean, it's the message has changed their life, which really means they've changed their own life. And so sweet, they're giving me credit. It's not me. So as long as we are chasing the integrity of the message, we can't go wrong. What happens to these monsters out there is that their ego became so big, they thought they were the message. You know, they're not the message. The message is universal truth. You and I are not inventing these truths. You're not inventing estrogen and hormonal.
Dr. Mindy (01:08:20.224)
Yes. That's right.
Dr. Mindy (01:08:26.337)
Agreed.
Dr. Mindy (01:08:38.818)
Yeah. Yeah.
Shefali (01:08:46.97)
wisdom, it's you're following the body. I didn't invent all of this, I'm following the laws of nature. So the message is not yours, nor mine, but these people began to think they invented the message and they are the message.
Dr. Mindy (01:08:56.024)
beautiful.
Dr. Mindy (01:09:00.246)
Yeah, you know, Leanne Rimes said that to me one time. She said, Mindy, the minute you think you're the product, you're dead in the water. You are not the product. And I think that is what you said is so incredibly powerful that it's almost like we all have something to contribute to this world. And to me, that all is that's an energy that we can bring forward. But it's not
Shefali (01:09:07.866)
Yeah. Yeah.
Shefali (01:09:17.051)
Yes.
Dr. Mindy (01:09:27.2)
our identity, it's what moves through us in our authenticity that we can really show up and start to create a new world because in my opinion, the power together and the power within world, there are no gurus or celebrities, there aren't even any leaders, there's just people doing life together. Yeah.
Shefali (01:09:49.286)
Interdependent and and the person baking the cake is so important the person weeding the garden is so the person at your UPS so important So important the uber driver the person in the farm right now. Are you kidding me? We would not be here without them. So Like you said we are together and as long as we can raise our children with that awareness and ourselves
Dr. Mindy (01:09:59.736)
You're right, so important.
Shefali (01:10:14.406)
You know, we have each other and there are a lot of us out there with a with a heart with feeling with a sense of aliveness we have to just stay with those people and there will always be Unconsciousness sadly, but that's just the nature of this reality. We live it
Dr. Mindy (01:10:19.756)
Mm-hmm.
Dr. Mindy (01:10:23.502)
Mm.
Dr. Mindy (01:10:30.636)
Yeah, that's so beautiful. Okay, are we allowed to brag about your books? Are they in pre-order status?
Shefali (01:10:36.56)
They're going to be at the end of this month. I don't know when you're going to air this episode. So you want to tell me?
Dr. Mindy (01:10:39.712)
Okay, we're probably probably end of February yeah we it'll we're gonna air it probably in a week or two.
Shefali (01:10:48.742)
So this will be on release February 27th, pre-order February 27th. So that's in, you wanna do it after that? So let me, should I start again? So you tell me, yeah, then I'll bring it.
Dr. Mindy (01:10:55.106)
Great. Yeah, yes, yeah. So we can do it after that. Yeah. Okay, yeah, and then my team's here, so we'll make sure it comes out after that. Okay, so talk about your new books. And I just, as an author, I'm like, you wrote two books at the same time. When are these coming out? How can we pre-order them and support you?
Shefali (01:11:03.803)
Okay.
Shefali (01:11:16.268)
Yes, so my next two books and I promised myself Mindy before I wrote this, would not be writing more parenting books, but we are in a new era. Things have changed and our parents are feeling helpless and scared and we need help. So I wrote two books, Raising Conscious Daughters and Raising Conscious Sons. They are available on pre-order. Go to my website, my landing page and get all my bonuses. I'm so excited because it really gives parents
Dr. Mindy (01:11:24.876)
Mm-hmm.
Dr. Mindy (01:11:32.92)
beautiful.
Shefali (01:11:44.472)
a language and the tools. So Jonathan Haid raised the alarm, told us we're in trouble, and I see my books as now helping parents with the solutions and giving them the to-dos. Every chapter has the to-dos and what to do and the path to walk on to change our children's future.
Dr. Mindy (01:11:46.702)
Hmm.
Dr. Mindy (01:12:00.672)
Mmm, it's beautiful.
Yeah, and I just want to say to my audience pre-orders really matter because it helps the outlets understand that this is a book that needs to get to more people. So if you're hearing this, even if the book's not going to get into your mailbox within a week from now, it's a great way to start practicing this more patient energy that we have been talking about. And when we have a book that we know can change the world, it's so important to support those books so that more people can get them.
Shefali (01:12:34.246)
Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you.
Dr. Mindy (01:12:34.284)
Dr. Shafali, I love you. Where do people find you? What's your number one platform? Like if they want to dive into your teachings.
Shefali (01:12:42.638)
I would just make them go to my website because they can get my books on my website, they can get 30 days free pass to my community, they can learn about my coaching institute if they want to become a coach with me. I have a phenomenal conscious parenting and life coaching certification program where they can help others like I help others. so that's the best place. Just go to my website.
Dr. Mindy (01:12:58.638)
Amazing.
Dr. Mindy (01:13:03.918)
Yeah, wonderful. Thank you. I appreciate you so much.
Shefali (01:13:07.152)
Thank you.
Dr. Mindy (01:13:10.337)
Yay!
Resources Mentioned
Dr Shefali's Books (Available for preorder), Raising Conscious Daughters & Raising Conscious Sons
The Conscious Coaching Institute – Learn about becoming a certified Conscious Parenting & Life Coach: https://coaching.drshefali.com/
Use the code AUSTRALIA for a $500 discount on tuition.
30-Day Free Pass to the Conscious Circle Community – Access workshops, live sessions, teachings, and an incredible global community: https://courses.drshefali.com/circle-giftpass
Meet the Guest
Dr. Shefali Tsabary
Dr. Shefali is a clinical psychologist and 3-time New York Times bestselling author, praised by Oprah as “revolutionary.” She leads the Conscious Parenting and Life Coaching Institute and has trained over 1,200 coaches worldwide. Through her books, podcast, private sessions, and Conscious Circle Community, she helps people live more awakened, authentic lives. Her work blends Eastern wisdom with Western psychology to inspire transformation in parenting, relationships, and self-growth.
More on Dr. Shefali:
Facebook: Doctor Shefali
Instagram: @doctorshefali
TikTok: @doctorshefali
YouTube: @doctorshefali
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