Can Understanding Your Ancestral Emotions Transform Your Health? – with Dr. Julia DiGangi

Dr. Mindy Pelz  

On this episode of The resetter podcast, I bring you Dr. Julia DiGangi, okay, this is a deep one, this is so deep, I want you really to listen all the way through because there is so much juicy. This is what I’m going to call it in this conversation. So let me tell you a little bit a little bit about Dr. Julia DiGangi and then I want to tell you what you’re about to listen to, because I, it is one of those conversations that will blow your mind. So she is a neuro psychologist and an expert in the connection between the brain leadership and emotion. We talk all about emotions. Her lab and clinical work has been conducted at Harvard, Columbia and the University of Chicago, she’s worked with leaders at the White House, global companies, international NGOs and the military. Her understanding of stress and resilience has informed her work with the UN, like this woman knows what she’s talking about when it comes to emotions. So here’s what I want you to know about what you’re about to hear. And it’s you’re gonna see a thread and a lot of the conversations and guests I’ve been bringing on to you. And the biggest thread you’re about to hear is why your emotional response to people to situations to things in your life is actually within your control. In fact, it’s the only thing that matters when it comes to emotional health is your reaction to it. Now, in the past, I feel like we’ve had discussions about well, your traumas are revealing themselves, we’ve talked about how the brain changes at menopause, and that’s informing your reaction. But she brings a really different approach here. And she talks about how our emotional state is ancestral. That was fascinating, definitely passed down through our genetics, and that our emotional state is built off of three to four different key things we are craving, and I’m going to let you listen from her mouth, what she says those things are. Now with this understanding that we can control our own emotional reaction, what I want to also bring forth to you is listen all the way through because at the end, I talked about areas that where we are finding hurdles, mental hurdles, with our health because of our emotional response to be a being able to actually perform a healthy habit or not, or failing at a health habit, like what do we do when emotionally, we are struggling with our health. And she came up with some really powerful strategies for you all. So I feel like this discussion starts off a little complex, and then it gets very action oriented. So please stay all the way through. I think there is so much peace that will come from a conversation like this. And as always, if you have questions when I post this on socials, answer him on a on the reels that I put out there, leave me reviews. This is a conversation that is so deep, so nuanced, and has the power to change your life. And I’m so proud to bring it to you. So as always, I hope it moves, your health, your happiness, your life forward, and that you enjoy it as much as I enjoy talking to her.

Welcome to the resetter podcast. This podcast is all about empowering you to believe in yourself. Again, if you have a passion for learning, if you’re looking to be in control of your health and take your power back, this is the podcast for you.

Okay, well, let me just start by welcoming you to the resetter podcast. We have some really in depth discussions on this podcast. And I think you have something to offer us that we haven’t talked yet. So I just want to start off by saying welcome. I’m super excited to have this conversation with you.

Dr. DiGangi  

Well, I’m super excited to be here. So thanks for having me.

Dr. Mindy Pelz  

So here’s here’s the lens in which I’ve looked at everything through and it’s through a hormonal lens and one of the things that I have come to realize is that the perimenopause, menopausal process has this massive hormonal change that is going on. That is often gives women a exaggerated emotional response to stressors that didn’t bother her when in her 30s or 20s. Those same stressors now are really, really agitating. In fact, I recently read that the number one symptom of menopause, everyone thinks it’s hot flashes, but it’s actually irritability. So I would love to start this conversation with what is the difference? Between a thought and an emotion, because what I found in my Peri menopausal journey was the thoughts turned into really exaggerated emotions. Without all of those neuro chemicals to soften it. My my emotions were very heightened. So can you help us understand how a thought turns into a motion? And what the difference is? Yes,

Dr. DiGangi  

I’d like to kind of take the question and sort of field it in a different way. So I am a neuro psychologist, which means I’m a clinical psychologist with specialized expertise in the brain. So really, all of my work, all of my brain research has focused on emotion. So a moat, what is emotion? Emotion is quite literally, energy. Yeah, I don’t mean this metaphysically. I don’t mean metaphorically. I mean, the reason I can do my fMRI and EEG research is because emotions are neuro electric things in your brain that really govern all of the meaning in your life. So this is one of the biggest shifts that I want to bring to people, the meaning of your life rises on the energy of emotion. So I want you to think about any single thing in your life that has meaning. Are you a good person? Were you a good parent? Are you a good leader? Do you have enough money? Do you have enough to I could give you a million of these questions. It depends. How do you feel about it? Yeah, okay. So human meaning is constructed almost entirely in the energy of emotion. So we don’t need to get too academic about this. But I think a phenomenal way that’s really useful to think about emotion, is emotion are like the Google Maps of your life. Okay, so we’re all driving down the interstate of our lives, and we get these neural electrical things like, I should immediately leave this conversation. I’m driving out of my little like, my little Google Maps GPS is like Giulia, at the next intersection, will immediately say no and hold a boundary. And what do I do? I behave in the exact opposite direction. Okay. So when I say that emotion is an energy, I again, mean this quite neurobiologically. So what a lot of us are doing is, we’re getting these somatic signals, these neuro physiological signals that are intended to guide our lives in alignment with the highest truth of our energy, but then we are thinking and behaving in the exact opposite direction. Okay, I’m going to give you a few examples of this. I say, I want to hold a boundary. So I feel like I feel like I want to hold a boundary. But then when push comes to shove, I have a thought, or, more importantly, I behave in a way that I disrespect my own boundary. Right? I have a feeling like I want to speak up, I’m really frustrated about something I’m really on bed heard about something, I have a feeling that I want to speak up. But what do I do? I keep my mouth shut. Okay. So in all of these moments, what’s happening in this is a really key point it point if we want to talk about energy and irritability and quality of life. In each of those moments, I have divided the energy of my emotion, from the energy of my thinking and my behavior. I always talk about there’s an emotional physics to our life, there’s an emotional math to it. Okay? If I continuously divide the energy of my emotion, from the energy of the way that I’m thinking and behaving, the consequence is very logical. I start to feel depleted. Hmm. I feel burnt out. I feel like nothing’s working. I feel like my life is out of control. Okay, well, the imperative to unite emotional energy with the way we’re actually living in our lives is essential to feeling like we have powerful, resilient, meaningful lives.

Dr. Mindy Pelz  

Okay, so my neuro chemical chemistry brain kicks in because I think, well, where the does the emotion come from? So you’re saying what I’m hearing you say is that it’s energy. And so where does the energy come from? An I guess my brain goes to like, let’s use something like serotonin, for example. So if I am a 45 year old woman, and I’m losing estradiol, well estradiol also stimulated serotonin, so now I’m losing serotonin. So I’m not feeling like as happy there’s a different emotional state there because of a neuro chemical change. Would you just say that that’s a different energy that I’m now feeling because my neuro chemical This system is different than it was in my younger years.

Dr. DiGangi  

Also, I think this is something that’s really important to point out is that there’s no and I think this kind of blows people’s mind. There’s no single agreed upon definition for a motion. Wow, one time. It’s a, it’s a fight, sometimes a friendly fights, sometimes a contentious fight in the field, but I am I call myself ruthlessly pragmatic. And so I’m always thinking, Where does the rubber hit the road, like people have lives to live, and they want their lives to feel good. So when our lives don’t feel good to us, we can get very abstract about it. And we can do all the research. And I think this is profoundly powerful. It’s why I’m a scientist. But we have to start thinking, if I’m in a moment in my life, and I don’t feel good, what can I do to improve function? And I think what happens a lot of times to women, is for an entire lifetime, we have been denying the truth of our energy, we have been behaving ways behaving and thinking in ways that do not align with the emotional energy. So the brain is the most extraordinary machine on the planet. Extraordinary technology. And it sometimes frustrates me. And sometimes it kind of humors me that people pay more attention to the intelligent operation of their cell phones, or not chat GPT than they pay attention to the machinery of their brain and the nervous system. Yeah. Okay. So the brain is very exquisite, but when it comes to pain, so all of my work is really what I call the relationship between the brain emotional pain and emotional power. Okay, I think one of the most powerful things about my work is I take emotions, which are wildly complex. Yes, and I clarify them in a way that’s extremely empowering, right. So if when it comes to pain, the parts of the brain that mediate physical and emotional pain, there are some overlapping components, which tells you, the body registers distress the way the body is going to register to stress. So if, for example, I go to put my hand on a hot stove, and I burned my hand, I will immediately pull my hand away, and I will never do that again. in neuropsychology, we call that one trial learning, meaning the imprint was so strong in my nervous system that I never have to go back and touch that stove. Okay, what happens though, in our experiences of emotional pain, or emotional distress, and this is a very important point I want to make, I’m going to use the term emotional pain over and over and over in our conversation. People don’t understand I’m talking about a continuum. Okay. emotional pain is any emotional sensation that does not feel good you irritability, frustration, inadequacy, irritation, rage, being mad, being pissed off being lonely. The reason is, I always say the brain is the most precious real estate on the planet, less than three pounds. The circuits in your brain that give rise to your bad feelings are the circuits in your brain that give rise to your bad feelings? Right? You understand? I’m saying so there’s not like one part of the brain that controls trauma. And another part of the brain that controls when you’re in a shower, write parts that control the stress, okay? Okay. So if I get physical pain, and I burned my hand on a hot stove, I’ll never do that again. But when you think about your emotional pain, the wager irritated with the people in your life, the ways that you’re frustrated, the ways that you feel like you’ve been neglected. Every single one of them by definition is chronic. Hmm.

Dr. Mindy Pelz  

Okay, like leftover from the past like you’re carrying it through? Well,

Dr. DiGangi  

it just keeps happening over and over and over and over and over and over and over again. Okay. So if you’re taking it to say you’re frustrated with your family, no one has ever come to me and been like, I’ve been frustrated with my family, one day one time in the year 2003. It’s like, I’m continuously frustrated. Yes. Where people’s relationship with social media, and we’re consistently triggered. So if we want an intelligent handling of emotions, regardless of where we are, in terms of our human development, right, we’ve got to understand what’s really happening with emotion. And for a lot of us, what’s happening is we’re replaying these chronic patterns of emotional pain over and over and over again. So unlike the stove, where I touch the stove and never do it again, we’re engaging in our lives emotionally, in the same ways over and over and over and over and over and over and over and expecting a different result.

Dr. Mindy Pelz  

And does that come does that come from some initial emotion you had as a child, like, where does that come from?

Dr. DiGangi  

So this is a fascinating conversation. Yes, it comes from I mean, what’s really profound is yes, it absolutely can. As from childhood coding, what we’re starting to learn and some of my work has been in gene by environment interactions. We’re starting to see I’m sure people have heard of EPI genetics. Yep. We carry quite literally, in our DNA, our ancestors pain. Wow.

Dr. Mindy Pelz  

Yeah, I’ve heard this before. And so explain, explain how that how that is. Because that seems so baffling to me.

Dr. DiGangi  

I mean, it’s, it’s a wild question that we’re still really sitting with. But you know, a great experiment was when, so if a mother is bearing an offspring, there’s always a question about the maternal environment, right? So what was happening to the fetus in utero, etc, etc, etc. The father’s tend to be a cleaner cut, because the father’s can just give their sperm and then the baby’s not growing in that paternal environment. So with mice, which mice are surprisingly, quite genetically similar to humans, what what researchers do, is they traumatize the male mice, I’m not a animal researcher. So that’s

Unknown Speaker  

just to say,

Dr. DiGangi  

I know. But what they found is when they take mice, and they traumatize one sample of the males, and don’t traumatize another, and they have those babies, and then those babies become mothers. Are you with me? So still? Yep, yep. The one of the ways we we measure birth, a mouse emotional intelligence, is by these kinds of licking behaviors or the way they nurture their young. And you see statistically different behaviors more than a generation later, based on and the mice were all treated precisely the same, the same environment, the same feeding the same. So what they’re starting to think is, the truck, the traumatization of the male mice, then gets passed down to the sperm. And then those sperm are then carried by these mothers. And then we see those offspring display different traits. Yeah. So this is what I mean, when we say that we carry the pain of our ancestors. This is not obstruct. Yeah,

Dr. Mindy Pelz  

yeah, I’ve heard that from it was a study done, I believe on kin or children of Auschwitz survivors, that I had heard that there was a level of anxiety and stress that got passed down. And they started to see it in the second generation, I think so I can understand it from that standpoint. Which actually leads me to the question then. Well, I don’t know what my ancestors went through. I don’t know what emotions I was born, what emotional palette I was born with. How do I figure that out? And then if it came from my ancestor, and how the heck am I going to overcome that?

Dr. DiGangi  

Totally. So I want to say something here. And I make this point and energy rising, which is that we learn from the physicists that energy can never be destroyed. Hmm, yeah, it can only be transformed. Yep. are bad ceilings. Please hear this are painful feelings are an energy. And if we could destroy them by avoiding them, or pretending they weren’t there, or numbing ourselves from them, or watching a lot of Netflix, we’re leaving relationship after relationship. We would all have transformed our pain by now. Plenty of us are sitting in our lives having done effort after after, after effort after effort, we’re feeling very exhausted. And the levels of pain in our life, the levels of irritation and irritability and disconnection and fear and anxiety and stress are pretty similar. Why? Because pain cannot be destroyed, it can only be transformed. Okay, well, how do I think about my brain? Because you’re making a great point. It’s like, well, I have no idea what happened to my grandparents and my own parents, my soul, my helpless? Absolutely not. But to understand this, we have got to understand what the brain really is. Okay. And the best way to think about the machinery of the brain of the brain is as a pattern detection machine. Okay, great. Well, your brain is quite literally moving you through life going. Apple, Apple, Apple, fill in the blank. The future is just a fill in the blank, right? It’s a new day. It’s a new person. It’s a new job. It’s a new opportunity. Fill in the blank, right? So the brain is going to predict. It was Apple, Apple, Apple, Apple. It should be an apple yet. Well, fine. It could have been a banana. It could have been a coffee cup. It could have been a dog but okay, Apple fine, no problem. A lot of times this is wildly adapted. This is why I’m sure we’ve all had this experience where we’re driving home We’re listening to a podcast or we’re talking to somebody on the phone, we ended up in our driveway. We’re not quite sure how we got there. But right, so this is that pattern detection ability of the brain moving us perfectly unconsciously, automatically through life. Great. So the brain is not really going Apple, Apple, Apple, Apple, what is the energy? What is the entity that your brain is really like? What is the apple in this analogy? It is emotional energy. It is patterned, emotional and and people get this, they will change their life. Okay, so you have a core emotional pattern that you have held since childhood. I, the way I wrote energy rising is I wrote it into eight neuro energetic codes. So chapter is a code. And it’s a blueprint for how to work with your emotional energy in your nervous system. One of the blueprints is what I’m talking about. Now, this kind of coding that we receive in childhood. Okay, so hopefully, we have sort of a good emotional pattern. And we also all have emotionally painful patterns. Well, I’m here to help people reform their pain, the things that are going well in your life good. I’m trying to help the bad stuff and make those even better. So we all have a core emotional pattern, and you get to choose yours. But it’s going to sound something like this, I’ll give you a few examples. things never work out for me. Things never work out for me. Things never work out for me. Or I can’t get what I want. I can’t get what I want. I can’t get what I want. Or I’m not good enough. I’m not good enough. I’m not good enough. So what happens is, and again, remember the way I started this conversation, the entire meaning of your life rises on the energy of emotion. So I’m going through my life, running a core emotional code that’s unconscious until we do work like this and have conversations like these and read books like energy rising. And so I get into a new fill in the blank, a new house, a new year, I join a new workout program, I get a new partner, and I can situationally, get a bump. This is why people usually feel in January, for example, but we know that before February 85% of New Year’s resolutions have failed. Yep. Why is it because people didn’t really mean it? No, I believe people are very honest. And I believe in what they saying. It’s because this core emotional pattern is so powerful that we’ve got to understand how to work directly with it. So if I get into a new whatever job relationship outfit, I might feel good momentarily, but I will always gravitate back to the core emotional pattern. So if I show up in rooms, new opportunities, new jobs, new days, where I add a fundamental and running the emotional code. No one here likes me. I promise you, I will manifest the room where there are people in that room who do not like me, right? Because the brain is superimposing meaning over reality. You understand Jose? Yeah, I told ya. Yeah, I see. Right right now, it is a sunny day, I see beautiful trees and green go green grass. If I look to the left, I see a closet door and my roof shots. I have artwork hanging on my wall. Both scenarios are true. Let me tell you, I’m gonna tell you a little bit about my research and then you can kind of jump in here. But when I see meaning is constructed by emotion. I am if I had a million lifetimes to live, I would live it on this altar of human pain and human power because the only way we change our lives is my understanding. Regardless of where we are in development. Adolescents are perimenopause or menopause, how to work with the energy of our emotions in that moment. So I am a human emotion researcher. We have a paradigm it’s called the faces paradigm. So researchers all over the world use this paradigm. Okay, the reason we all have to use the same paradigm is because Mindy, if you’re kind of showing people one thing, and I’m showing people another thing and other people, then when we get back together and we have different results in our experiments. Well, is it because maybe we just showed people different things. So everyone’s using the same four faces in the spaces paradigm I’m about to explain. Okay, so we work people, these big scanners or we hook them up to EEG electrodes, and we show them happy faces. Angry face, sad face, neutral face. Now the reason the scientists initially even included the neutral face was because you needed a baseline. In the scanner, you need to say like, Okay, I’m going to show you something neutral. And then when I’m show you something scary, we’re going to measure brain activity. So we can see the difference from baseline. Yes, yes, no, the neutral face was just supposed to be this placeholder. But this extremely fascinating things started to happen. People started to have all different kinds of reactions to the neutral face. Some people said the neutral face was just neutral, it was boring, it was bland, it was neutral. And other people started to say, that face is not neutral. That face is scary, huh? That face is threatening? That bass is menacing. Who is right? Who cares? I am in the business of human power. If we want to influence ourselves, and if we want to influence each other, we have got to meet ourselves in the truth of our emotion. So if a neutral face was just neutral than everyone would have agreed, but people are having different reactions. Why? Because of the emotional coding that they’re bringing the situation after situation? Do you see what I’m saying? Oh, yeah. Oh, yeah.

Dr. Mindy Pelz  

So the way I interpreted what you just said was that because it was neutral, it was the emotion you bring out is the one that or the emotional energy you carry. And let’s just say it’s ancestor, like you said, it’s ancestral, it reveals itself in that neutral face. So if somebody saw the neutral face and said it was neutral, and somebody said it was angry, it’s really about your ancestral emotional energy that showed up in the neutrality 100%.

Dr. DiGangi  

And, you know, so I grew up in a home, where there was a lot of volatility, there was addiction. And I got and there was a lot of wonderful things too, again, like, I always will say that when it comes to emotional relationships, and emotion, I don’t want to get too far afield. But part of the pain of our our relationships, is the people who are hurting us aren’t all bad. If they were just like a tight race, we would rush it sucks. I’m out of here. Yes. Well, it’s, it’s the people who we love the most, because they’re so wonderful are also the people who are causing excruciating pain in our life. So I grew up in a home where there was a lot of volatility, there was a lot of rage. So I got really good at reading neutral phases. And I’m basically what we call emotionally monitoring. So the reason I became a psychologist is I have profound empathy. I’m very connected to people, I can read people really well. Well, part of that came through my pain. So to your point about a neutral face, I learned that neutral faces weren’t neutral. Right? Right. times, I was waiting for the other Shoot, I’ll read for all out. Don’t show me that neutral face. I’d much rather see an angry face, but don’t come out and with that neutral shit, because now I’m just waiting for the storm to come raging through you see. So a lot of us who call ourselves and pass who have a lot of deep emotional intelligence, we call to to read a motion before maybe other people can see it overtly. And so neutrality is anything but right.

Dr. Mindy Pelz  

Okay, so here, I have to ask this question, because it’s come up in many of the conversations here on this podcast, which is what and I, you know, I want to answer what we do with this ancestral emotional situation we’ve been given in a moment. But what happens when people are freezing their face with like Botox and fillers, and things like that, and we’re not this is something I’ve noticed, even in having conversations with people, sometimes it’s really hard to read people’s emotions that we have created a bit of a culture that has a very neutral face. And what I have found as somebody who’s been interviewed by those people, or I’m interviewing those people or interacting with them, is that it’s hard to read where they’re at. And so what I’m thinking that you’re going to say is that when the face is neutral like that, it’s a mirror for you to see what your emotional, let’s just say baggage, your energetic baggage is that you were born with and have been given because there’s a lot of frozen faces right now. Well,

Dr. DiGangi  

isn’t that just such a commentary on our culture as a whole? It’s like we I always say the most powerful frequency on the planet is truth. Right and another word I believe in the primer I’m at my core, I’m a talk therapist. Talking is my medicine and I’m very very good at my job. And we know neuro scientifically that with the reason we think that talk therapy works isn’t Just because anecdotally it works that we have powerful evidence that shows that language really changes the brain. Right? So I think a lot about my word choice. I think another synonym for truth is reality. Okay. So in order for me to change my life, I have to push off against the truth of what is. And so I think a lot of people rage against aging. So even to your point about like perimenopause, and menopause, and it’s like, we’ve all been told that this very, very natural process of human evolution must be frozen in time.

Dr. Mindy Pelz  

Yes, yes. Thank you. Thank you. Yes. So

Dr. DiGangi  

so then I start my own. And by the way, I’m not making any commentary whatsoever about people’s the way they want what they want to do with their body, I think more power to them. Right, right. I’m talking about the emotional people go to do Botox and fillers and empowers them and they feel. But I think there’s this other question is like, one of the most power I’ve done a ton of incredible research, I’ve really had a glorious career, I started I started my career at the White House, and worked on US presidential campaigns. I did a lot of international humanitarian aid and international relief, and to be able to work with people in such sacred spaces. It’s really been extraordinary. In one of the most extraordinary research projects of my life, I interviewed people who were dying about what it was like to live and what it was like to die. Hmm. And one of the things that I carry with me so profoundly is like, do we trust the energy of life itself? And if we trust life itself, we’ve got to be more okay. Not because we have to, like you better get it together, but it’s safe. It is safe to trust ourselves. It is safe to trust our bodies, it is safe to trust the unfolding. And I think a lot of you know, there’s a lot of stuff that comes up for us when our bodies start to change, pregnancy perimenopause, menopause, right. And I think sometimes it’s met with so much fear. Yeah. Yeah, I want to go back to something I said about the brain. It’s so such a big, big, big, big piece of this. And I, I hope it gives people hope, when they can really see it. So I said, the brain is a pattern detector, right? Apple, Apple, Apple, fill in the blank. There’s really only one aspect of one emotional state that the human brain can’t tolerate. Ooh, that’s that. If I’m angry, I know what to do about angry, angry, angry, angry, angry. If I’m sad, Mom, I don’t feel good. But sad says I don’t do a sadness. If I’m happy, happy, happy, happy. I know what to do with happiness. If I’m contemptuous I know what to do. The only emotional state that the machinery of the brain cannot metabolize is the energy of confusion. Now, I don’t care semantically, you can call it confusion. You can call it uncertainty. You can call it ambivalence. You can call it ambiguity. Neurologically, it’s the same, it’s the sensation of Apple, Apple, Apple. What comes next? What comes next? Right. And so what will happen is just like the lungs are gonna breathe, it’s like inhale. And just keep inhaling and just keep inhaling and just keep inhaling at some point, the lungs are going to do with the lungs are going to do meaning they’re going to exhale, so your brain can tolerate. Well, frankly, it’s very, very brittle to uncertainty and confusion. We can expand it when we have powerful conversations like these. But what happens is the brain hits any moment of uncertainty. And it can only tolerate that blank space for so long before it’s going to predict. Yep. Yeah. So this is why I’m sure we’ve all gotten, like just yesterday, my best best best best friend, I told her something that I thought merited immediate response. And she did not respond to me right away. And I’m starting to get a little bit annoyed. And what I really kind of went into the annoyance I was like, Why didn’t chain and I was like, oh, did she not think that I was in as soon as I like kind of really gently reflected on myself like, Oh, I just feel a little bit sad. I was able to clean it up. But my point here is when we start to have an emotion that we don’t like, it is worth asking ourselves. What was the uncertainty I told myself I was unwilling to tolerate.

Dr. Mindy Pelz  

Well, I just want to just so I’m understanding this right. That was the biggest thing that I’m taking away and I had a sense to this, but you’ve given me new language to understand this is that when we’re interacting with People, it’s not our emotional response is not about what the other person did. It’s about this ancestral emotional energy that I have been birthed with and have been patterning my whole life. Yeah, I want to

Dr. DiGangi  

be really clear just because like I’m fundamentally a trauma, I treat trauma treat anxiety. You could have had a great childhood and then be traumatized. Like, it’s it’s not all ancestral. Of course, I don’t think Napa like, we’re My point is we’re shaped by all of these forces, our childhood, our traumas, you know, I have I have patients who they’ve had infidelity, that’s devastating. I could have costed people before my infidelity, and now I can. So the point is, it’s all of these factors, but to your point, which I think is your core message, we often think it is the situation. Yes, the motion. Yes. And I am coming here with this big counterintuitive shift and saying, No, very often, it is the emotion that creates the situation. Oh,

Dr. Mindy Pelz  

that was good, though. It is good. It’s

Dr. DiGangi  

so good. It’s not because I’m saying it. It is good because it reconnects you with the power of your life. If it truly is the situation that causes my emotion. I am thought

Unknown Speaker  

it’s true.

Dr. Mindy Pelz  

You’re powerless. Yeah. So you know, one thing and my audience knows this. I’ve been, you know, in the last couple of years deep into working on traumas in my life, I’ve done EMDR and I’ve done breath work, and I’ve done psychedelic journeys, like I’ve been really trying to work on my response,

Dr. DiGangi  

what psychedelics have you used? If you feel comfortable? Just yeah, of course.

Dr. Mindy Pelz  

Yeah, psilocybin, MDMA and five Meo DMT, and they were all done with therapists and in a very controlled environment,

Dr. DiGangi  

and was one of them more profound for you than another or I know, they all have their own. Yeah,

Dr. Mindy Pelz  

it’s really, it’s really hard to say they’ve all been different. I mean, it, I feel like psilocybin really gave me an idea of create, like a bigger vision that I wasn’t able to see when I wasn’t, and so being able to talk through some of those, and I also saw how interconnected everything was. MDMA, of course, is great at just bringing down the defenses and really pulling me into my heart. So I could see things more objectively, and five Meo DMT was, was like seeing my ancestors, like, like, it’s from another world. So but each one, what I did is I came out with a checklist of like, here are some traumas, some wounds, some things that showed up, and I took it to my therapist, and was like, let’s work on these. And I say all that to say that I’ve at 54 years old, I’ve really hit a point where I understand now, what you’re saying is that my emotional state is my responsibility. And so if somebody is triggering my emotions, it’s a mirror for me to see. Oh, isn’t that interesting? Why is this and I like how you’re saying it? Why is this energy showing up? Because now I’m, I can work on it. And I don’t need the situation to change. And as as I’ve been doing that for the last couple of years, what what has shocked me, is some of the most difficult relationships in my life are effortless now.

Dr. DiGangi  

i I’m, I got emotional when you said that. I felt that this is what I want people to know is if we shift our relationship with our own emotions, yeah, our lives become expansive and possible, and we don’t have to take a wrecking ball to them.

Dr. Mindy Pelz  

That’s right. Yeah. So how do we do that? How do we do that without, you know, some people listening are like, Well, I’m not doing a psychedelic journey. I don’t have the money to go into EMDR therapy, like, how can we do this with this understanding that it’s that our emotional health is within our own control? Okay,

Dr. DiGangi  

so I want to go back to this thing about uncertainty and or confusion, let’s go either one of those words is fine. The future is inherently unknowable, okay. And it’s unknowable in big ways. And in lots of ways we can totally tolerate in a lot of ways that like we find impossible, like, we’re just like, this is excruciating, right? So what happens is, and I want to show people the mechanics of this. So what tends to happen, I work with a lot of kinds of people who are high performing like high performing parents, maybe they’re even a stay at home mom, but they’re just like giving all like, there’s just a lot of labor and I work with like leaders and I work with entrepreneurs, so people just like doing doing and doing. So, when I start to feel at my core uncertain, what that’s going to do is it’s going to create a sense of unsafety. Okay, so great the brain is at its fundamental core, it’s about ensuring safety. What do I then do to create safe 50 Well, I start to say this uncertainty is making me uneasy. It’s making me anxious. So I’m going to create certainty. Right? This seems like a very adaptive logical strategy. So I then start to say, I’m going to create certainty by doing a lot to the external environment. Now, in energy rising, I write about what I call the overs. And I think you’re going to recognize some of them

Speaker 1  

are already talking about me, but you also see not in a good way. I didn’t feel quite seen right now, but go for it. So

Dr. DiGangi  

the overs are things like overthinking. overworking. Yeah, overheating, over analyzing over functioning over rotating. I mean, should I go over doing should I go on and on? It’s like, there’s a million of them. Yeah. So if I, for example, give to someone that’s very life giving, it’s very enjoyable, it’s very pleasurable. But when I over again, I am only doing that because the core energy is an impulse of fear. A lot of us love to work. But when we overwork, we’re only doing that because we’re afraid. Afraid of failing afraid of being found out or freedom. Okay. So when I, when I don’t know how to metabolize uncertainty properly, I want to create certainty, that’s fine. But I try to create certainty by engaging in the overs. So if I can work enough and give enough and function enough and think enough and analyze enough, then I will be safe. Are you with me? I think so. Absolutely. Yeah. Now listen to this. So my primary area of expertise is anxiety. And I’m an anxiety researcher, the best definition I can give you for anxiety is a disturbed relation relationship with certainty. Hmm, the best definition for anxiety is a disturbed relationship with certainty. In other words, the more I try to get out of uncertainty by demanding certainty, I start to obsessively Chase certainty. The more anxious I become,

Dr. Mindy Pelz  

hmm, interesting, okay, is that it’s extreme.

Dr. DiGangi  

So anxiety is on a continuum. Everyone has mild to moderate anxiety, very normal. But if you start to get into pathological conditions, PTSD, OCD, generalized anxiety, social anxiety, panic. These are all anxiety disorders, but they’re on a continuum. Right? The very, the very thing that causes these things, is actually a disturbed relationship with certainty. I’ll show you. So there’s a lot of variants of OCD. Let’s take that as an example. How can you use any disorder? One of the variants is checking, okay, so I go, and I think is my stoles. On, I go check. And when I check, externally, I do the checking behavior and look at the stove, I get a little bit of relief. But then in a little while later, I feel that uncertainty in my body, I go back and check again, I feel the uncertainty rise, I go back and check again. Wow, this certainty seeking is ruining, I have patients that cannot go to work, because they are checking their stove so much. So how do you break that? What you have to do is recognize first, and this is a very counterintuitive thing. If I had one word to describe all of my work, it would be either counterintuitive or opposite. If the brain is a pattern detection machine, Apple, Apple, Apple, Apple, and I want change in my life, I’ve got to be willing to say banana. Well guess what? The first time I say banana, you think that’s gonna feel good. It’s gonna feel like Ottawa. He’s gotta be apple. Okay, so I got to first say, so my real problem here is my inability to sit with uncertainty.

Dr. Mindy Pelz  

Root cause the root cause of anxiety. But here’s the thing.

Dr. DiGangi  

What is the opposite of uncertainty? It sounds semantically like it should be certainty, which is why we’re all out there trying to produce the opposite of uncertainty is not certainty. The opposite of uncertainty

Dr. Mindy Pelz  

is trust. I was just gonna say it’s faith. Yeah. So what are you trusting what you’re trusting that it’s all going to work out you’re trusting that your highest good is always unfolding like it’s, it’s when you get in the hyper I would call it like the hyper vigilant brain, I can definitely feel my brain go into that place often. And what you’re saying is when that shows up, you have to just create a statement if you’re going to create a banana statement. It would be it’s all going to work out. It’s I’m trusting that it’s unfolding has it needs to unfold.

Dr. DiGangi  

Yeah, that feels a little No, I think that’s beautiful. I would worry that that’s a little too theoretical for little woowoo. Oh, I think I think that’s the gimme, gimme. Yeah, that would be okay. So I would say, tell me specifically where you’re having stress. So I was I was a few minutes late to our conversation. And the reason I was a few minutes late to our conversation, is I was running a coaching group. And one of the people in the coaching group said, I struggled this week, because I went somewhere. And I just kept changing my outfit and changing my outfit and changing my outfit. I kind of got in this loop where I just kept changing my asset. So I was really stressed. And I said, Well, okay, what was the stress about? And they were like, I don’t know, I just felt like, I could not go out until I looked right. But everything I did, like it just didn’t feel right. So I would say what is the thing? So you see what’s happening is this person is trying to seek certainty. Can you see what’s happening in the in the nervous system? Right, that once I get the right outfit, it’s going to feel certain like it’s okay. Right? So she outfit outfit outfit outfit, and her anxiety is going up? Yep. Well, I say, Okay, well tell me the thing that you think you cannot tolerate? Well, the thing I think I cannot tolerate is I think I cannot go out in the wrong outfit. If we want to expand our emotional power, in emotional power, is our ability to accept our wholeness, and to be able to trust ourselves and life itself. Hmm, I’ve got to say, what are the ways I don’t trust myself? Well, I don’t trust myself to pick out an outfit. Hmm, well, I need to start building the muscle. This is an actual muscle of trusting my ability to pick it out. And that’s it. Not that I feel good in the outfit because because you see people want to take the mountain in a single leap. If you try to take a mountain in a single leap, you will fail. Don’t do that. So like my job right now is to say, I’m going to trust that I’m going to pick an outfit and that’s it. I don’t care if I feel good in it. I don’t care if I feel anxious. I don’t care if I feel like people are looking at me right now my work is to show myself that I have the muscle memory to pick an outfit, right? The way that we rebuild, because I want to show people that this is an actual musculature.

Dr. Mindy Pelz  

So if it sounds unfamiliar, right now, it means that you got to practice it. Yeah, yeah, go for it go.

Dr. DiGangi  

And one of the exercises and energy rising is something I call hold your emotional shake. Okay, it’s i One of the things that I think is extraordinary about energy rising is it’s very practical. It’s like, how does the science how do we actually show up in the science, right, we have a very strong analog with physical health. If I want to get more physical power, I go to the gym, and I start to lift more weight, or I start to run, and my body quite literally shakes, my muscle might start to tremble. My legs might start to quiver, my heart starts to race, I might start to sweat. And this is a really important point. No one in the history of getting more physically powerful, has ever ran from the gym fled screaming, oh, my God, I’m shaking, never to return to the gym ever again. Yeah. And in fact, a lot of us don’t like that shaking or that sweating or that heart racing. But we find it satisfying because it is the clearest evidence that our physical system is getting stronger. Yep, it is precisely the same on the emotional power side. Okay, if I go and I’m not used to liking the way I look, and I say today, I’m just going to I’m going to set a timer. And in five minutes, I’m going to pick an outfit. And I’m going to go out. The first time I do that, I’m going to shake like hell. Yeah. And the shaking, I’m literally going to shake, my voice is going to tremble, my legs are going to shake, I might sweat, I might feel a little bit dizzy. If I shut it down there. It’s just like me shutting it down and never going back to the gym. We change our nervous system through intensity and frequency. That’s it, right? That’s all show. So I’m not willing to engage in the emotional resistance. I will never get emotionally stronger. I don’t need to be hopeless about that. Because a lot of people say my leg I can’t change my life. You can’t change your life.

Dr. Mindy Pelz  

So what happens okay, so let’s just walk a scenario through let’s use the the outfit idea. So and the health insurance thing is really interesting because that we should maybe use that as an example because what a lot of what we’re seeing right now is science is being held up as like, well the science says it this way. So now we’re certain that some that your health is supposed to be a certain way and I think that that’s a very different difficult place to be in because The human body’s way more complex than we, we don’t we, there’s so much we don’t know. But now we’ve created a culture of people trying to find the certain path, how much protein should I eat? What exercise should I do? What menopausal HRT Should I take? Like everybody’s looking for these certain things?

Dr. DiGangi  

And and it’s just obsessive certainty seeking. Can you see that? Yeah,

Dr. Mindy Pelz  

I’m like, so I’ve seen this. And then what’s happening is that we’re like, oh, well, that person doesn’t know. So then this person must know. And so as somebody who is leading a pattern of thought, in the health world, right now, I feel like it’s getting us more and more unhealthy to be looking for these certain things,

Dr. DiGangi  

because they are moving through a locus of power to all these external experts. And by the way, what, a couple of things. First of all, when you take hard academic science, like, and you translate it to a CNN article, it’s like, one piece of chocolate a day, you will live 15 days longer. It’s like, those of us who are like legitimate scientists, like we’re not real, we wildly understand the nuance, right. And the other thing about science, and I want people to hear this, because like, we are now held up on this pedestal. Faith in science, trust in science, faith, and science, trust, and science, are sisters. There is no scientist in the world that can produce evidence unless they were first willing to act in faith. Every time we run an experiment, we gotta get all this money from the NIH, we gotta get our participants from the study. We’re running these machines that cost 1000s. And we have to have faith always precedes evidence, right? For what I’m saying is there has to be this renaissance. And I think it’s an extraordinary time to be alive with all this. Because I think the science is amazing. There’s this rise of AI. But what is happening is there’s a paradigm shift on the planet. And the intelligence of trust, the frequency of trust, is now starting to answer back. Do you have no,

Dr. Mindy Pelz  

no, no, because good to go deeper there? Because so

Dr. DiGangi  

I mean, this, we could have four more shows about this. But to your point, you your people are outsourcing their power? Yeah. Can I trust this expert? Can I trust this expert? Well, what this is going to do to the brain invariably, from a neural con from a neuro psychological perspective, it’s just going to confuse you.

Dr. Mindy Pelz  

That’s it. That’s exactly what I thought, yes. Well,

Dr. DiGangi  

out of confusion, you either have to find more experts, or you have to say, Let me listen to myself, like I have never listened to myself before. And let me tap fiercely into the energy of self trust.

Dr. Mindy Pelz  

So okay, so let’s use let’s use fasting as an example. Because many of my listeners fast. And what I see is that when many people will go into these fasted states, and they feel liberated, and other people go into just a short, little fast, and all the emotions and the relationship with food comes up. And so they they’re in that struggle. So I want to go back to that point where now they’re in struggle. And somebody comes along and says, Oh, fasting doesn’t work. A new study comes out. I’m sure you saw the one about 91% cardiovascular increase, which really wasn’t a study I at all, from intermittent fasting, and now they’re in this discomfort place. And they see something or they see another shiny object that says, Oh, wait, you’re supposed to eat protein first thing in the morning. And so instead of sitting in the discomfort of how can I make this fasting work for me, they’ve now outsourced their belief system, and they’re like, oh, oh, it’s bad. See, I knew it was difficult. I knew it was bad. And I’m just using, there’s a lot examples we can use like that. But what what I know about the human body is the human body has a rhythm to it. And it’s always trying to come back to homeostasis. And there’s so many things that work so well for us. But when we’re looking for this certainty, oftentimes we won’t find it. And then we get lost in the science rhetoric. And we’re in a moment like right now, where people are like, well tell me the scientific study on it. And they don’t even they haven’t really fully understood what even the scientific study is, and how the human body works. So what do we do and we hit those places where I’m uncomfortable with this health change. And yet, I don’t know where to turn now. I’m confused. So how do I not give up?

Dr. DiGangi  

I mean, I totally feel your point. And it’s so it feels so demoralizing, right. I want to hear the emotional energy. It’s like, it’s like a little girl pleading like, I’m trying so hard. I’m trying Yes, I’ll do this. Okay, I’ll do this. I’m trying and then you like read this next study, and you’re like, Oh, my God, I can’t drink water out of my faucet because I’m gonna Get some kind of just like, like Can Can you feel the like, just the energy just drop, like, what I saw? What’s the frequency? No matter what I do, it’s not enough. No matter what I do, it can’t be safe enough, no matter how much I Okay. So what we’ve got to be willing to do is to face ourselves. Now I know that this can sound wild. And this is why I love doing when I first on. When I first released energy rising, there was all kinds of different the books and very well received. And so I’ve had to do all kinds of different media. And the hardest media for me to do actually is like, talking to journalists to get like, three sentences. I just want one of my eyes 25 times and I’m like, Can we sit down for 4000 hours? And they’re like, no answer the question, right? Why we’re doing these podcasts because you can really expound upon the grade. When someone says to me, okay, like this study, it’s now it’s not, it’s making me feel free. Why? What at the core is like, it’s making me feel like not, I don’t know how to protect myself. Right? You will go, are you trying to protect myself? While I’m trying to do all these external things? I’m trying to find the answer to my emotion. Can you see at the core, it’s really about emotion, right? This is a really important point. If you had no, a literal synonym for problems, is emotional pain. If you found out you were going to die tomorrow, because we were all going to die, but you had no negative asset, no panic, no fear, no stress, you would have no problem. If you got fired from your job tomorrow. But you had no panic, no fear, no humiliate, you’d have no problem. So when people say I’m running around with a chicken with my head, cut off trying to find the perfect treatment, the perfect study, the perfect fountain of youth, can you tell me what that makes you feel in your body? It makes me feel afraid. And so I need someone from the outside to tell me I am safe. So,

Dr. Mindy Pelz  

so far, you don’t. We don’t trust ourselves. We don’t trust ourselves. And there’s

Dr. DiGangi  

two things we have to trust, is we’ve got to trust ourself. And we’ve got to trust God. And if you don’t like the word God, then you say the energy of life itself. Right, that that life itself is bigger than me. And I am not living life. But life is living through me. Yeah. So and if I think that there if I think that some other things, some other studies, some, I think the studies and the fasting is wonderful. Like, I’ve improved my own nutrition remarkably over the years, and I feel so much better for it. Yep. But there is nothing on the planet that the final frontier, and I this is a hill, I will die on the final frontier, in our life is our own painful feelings.

Dr. Mindy Pelz  

And man, managing them, dealing with them, understanding them, because here’s

Dr. DiGangi  

the thing, on the days when I feel good in my body, and the days when the people are listening to me, and the days when things are working, and the days when my husband is listening, and the days when my kid is cooperating feel great. It feels great. But but the world around me is giving me my power. Right? The world around me is giving me my agreement and my safety and my permission. Yeah, my power. And this is this is why I think energy. This is why Rome energy rising, is in the moment when I say Who am I in the resistance? Who do I say I am in the confusion? Who do I say I am, when you won’t agree with me, one of the most powerful things we can do is decide that we’re powerful enough to be misunderstood. Oh,

Dr. Mindy Pelz  

that was good. That was good. And so, you know, if we bring it back to we talked early on about women, and you know how we’ve, you know, you kind of alluded to adapting the ways we’ve adapted, I’m just going to say to the patriarchal world, what I am discovering and just working with so many women is that we’ve never asked ourselves, what do I want? We’ve never turned within and been like how, what is my heart saying? And so because we have been raised in a culture that has had us adapt to the culture. So when we come to the place we’ve come to in this conversation, where it’s self trust, where it’s listening to your own heart, a lot of women would say, I can’t hear anything. I don’t know. That’s a muscle I haven’t used.

Dr. DiGangi  

I mean, we’ve been so severed from our bodies. I’ll tell you so I had my first this is like, I feel a little embarrassed but I’m going to tell because I think it’s like needs to be said I had my first child after I had my PhD and And I brought this cute little outfit to the FBI not not the baby. I brought this cute little outfit for myself like I just like I wanted to. I’m an emotion person like I wanted to feel like beautiful and held. I brought this basically the skirt in this top. i The baby came out, my stomach was still distended. I was wearing a catheter I was wearing, you know, we all have the ice pads on our vagina. I had no idea. Like I it’s embarrassing to say, but I thought you gave you had the baby last few. I’m like, can you see that my intelligence around this was stunted at five years old. I thought the baby came out of my vagina. And then my body just went like Gumby. So to your I feel like we’re so severed from our bodies?

Dr. Mindy Pelz  

We so yeah, yeah. Purposely purposely just want to point that out?

Dr. DiGangi  

Well, then when we’re supposed to trust our sound, like if you think about and this is some of the stuff I talked about in code five, when we talked about the Early Childhood stuff, what happens to the brain in Year Zero, early life zero through three is it’s it’s magnificent. A million neural connections are being formed every second, we’re now starting to understand that learning begins in utero. Right? Oh, what’s happening in the brain is really quite extraordinary. So at the most powerful moment of our lives, let’s say like, zero to let’s go zero to 10. Okay, we’re getting all kinds of messages, some from very well intentioned parents, things like this. Eat the broccoli. But I don’t want to eat the broccoli. I don’t like it. Eat it anyway. Go tell him that you’re sorry. But I’m not sorry. If you’re a good girl, go tell him your son. Oh, yeah. Stand up. But I don’t want to stand up. I just want to sit. So we’re getting all of these messages from the most powerful people in our lives who are parents and again, they’re not doing anything even wrong. This is just how we are in human development. But we’re getting message after message, some point ostensively innocuous that we should sever ourselves from the very neurologic impulses that had been designed across 150 million years of evolution to be our neurologic GoogleMaps. Why would I trust my body when I’m getting signal after signal after signal? That what I’m feeling? I’m too emotional. I’m too much. Yeah, I sit down. I need to be quiet. My body doesn’t want to be this then you should be this thing anyways. Yeah, yeah. My face wants to read don’t read with your face. You see, oh, god.

Dr. Mindy Pelz  

Yeah, you it’s so I’ve so 1,000% congruent with what you’re saying? Because what I see is that in that level of thinking, there is so much suffering for women like so much. Because we’re trying to perform in ways where don’t even realize it. And to your point, we’re trying to slow down aging. And we don’t even know that maybe on the other side of menopause is something amazing. And maybe, maybe things like wrinkles actually give give emotional feedback to people. And like, there’s so much we’re missing in the context of health. And you just nailed it. And I think it’s what I would love to see in my lifetime, is I’d love to see women come back into connection with their bodies and entire selves.

Dr. DiGangi  

Amen. Yeah, how we how you, you know, I don’t want to get too nuts here, because I know especially we’re coming to the end. But you look at all these. So my life has really been about social justice. So my my brother is significantly disabled, like came from a family with a lot of mental health struggles like this is why did all the international humanitarian aid work? So it’s, I feel like biology is such a strong tool. Our bodies are such a strong tool for justice. How in the world? Can I respect other people’s pain? How in the world can I respect the destruction we’re doing to this planet? Right. Right. I know how to sit with and respect my own body.

Dr. Mindy Pelz  

Oh, so well said. So well said. Yeah. Wow. Well, I can see that there’s we do need to bring you back for many more conversations. But what I’m hoping people listening to this are gathering will a that you’re in control of your own emotional destiny, and be that it’s going to take work and thank you for writing books like yours and for coming on podcasts like mine so we can have this conversation. Because I you know, I hit a point in my career where I was like, I’m not offering up one answer solutions anymore. It has to come back to us understanding our body bodies as as women and it’s not easy to teach something that’s so multi faceted and has so much nuance to it. So I feel like you’re on that same path doing that with emotions. So I just

Dr. DiGangi  

I love, I love connecting with you. And I feel like there’s so many people like us agreed, like, the body has a natural intelligence. And one final point I want to make about the brain, the part of the brain that is thinking, and evaluating, and judging and weighing, and assessing and analyzing this part of the brain is the newest part of the brain. Okay, yeah. And it’s extraordinary. It’s the reason we put rovers on Mars and like, do calculus and all the things. But it’s a little bit like letting your toddler govern your life. It’s like, body has an intelligence, like the body knows how to breed, the body knows how to move energy, the female body knows how to literally create life. Yeah, well, it’s like this tiny part of the brain, which, yes, it’s extraordinary when we use it to do what it’s supposed to do for. But it’s like, well, we use this part of the brain to assess every single thing about life and change. It’s, it’s like letting the toddler run the show. So I guess the punchline here is like, it’s okay to trust biology. It’s okay to trust life itself. And it’s okay to trust the fullness of ourselves in this and when I talk about emotional power. My synonym for emotional power is wholeness. Yeah, all of me belongs. Yeah. Not just the pretty parts, not just the nice parts, not just the parts that seem really put together. I take all of my energy. Yeah.

Dr. Mindy Pelz  

Yeah. So well said. So well said. Okay, well, I’m sure everybody’s gonna run out and get your book. I know that, you know, diving deeper into this is going to be one of my fascination. So thank you for this how to before I ask you the last question, how do people find you? They

Dr. DiGangi  

can find me. Hopefully, they’ll pick up energy rising and let me know people have been reading it and letting me know what they think about it. And it’s just been such a beautiful moving experience. And then I’m on social media. So I’m at Dr. Juliet, again, G on Instagram, Dr. Julieta Ganji on LinkedIn. And I’m just Julia danji, on Facebook. And you can feel free to check out my newsletter, which is Dr. Julieta, gangee. On substack. Amazing,

Dr. Mindy Pelz  

amazing. Well, thank you for your work. And here’s my last question. I always find this question. So fascinating. It’s the one that I’ve chosen to do for the year. And that is what is health to you. Because we are all chasing something that we have different definitions of. So what would you say is when you know you’re healthy? What is healthy to you? For

Dr. DiGangi  

me, that one is is the answer is very clear. For me, health is integration. It is for me, am I integrated in the way that I am feeling with the way that I am behaving? Yeah, yeah, the healthiest human being is a whole human being who knows how to make space for all of her parts.

Dr. Mindy Pelz  

I you know, the word that comes to mind when you say that is congruent, see with yourself. It’s like, you know, so one of my guests said, health was, you know, the physical, the mental and the spiritual connecting together. Well, that’s just lining things up. And what I heard is like you being congruent with all your parts is, is phenomenal. So, thank you so much for this.

Time, agreed, agreed. And I hope everybody reaches out and get your book and find you on socials. And yeah, leave us comments and reviews, because it’d be really interesting to see what kind of questions we get. And then I want to bring you back. So thank you. Yeah, thank you so much. Appreciate you.

Dr. DiGangi  

Likewise.

Dr. Mindy Pelz  

Thank you so much for joining me in today’s episode, I love bringing thoughtful discussions about all things health to you. If you enjoyed it, we’d love to know about it. So please leave us a review, share it with your friends and let me know what your biggest takeaway is.

Transcribed by https://otter.ai