How to Do Life Around Your Hormones – with Kate Northrup

Dr. Mindy

Okay, so let me start off by welcoming you to the reseller podcast, Kate, so happy that you’re here.

Kate Northrup

I’m so happy to be here. Thank you.

Dr. Mindy

So one of the interesting things about the fact that we are doing this today is that I’ve been out talking to the world about cycling food and fasting to a woman’s menstrual cycle. And in that conversation has come the question of, well, what else can we cycle to a woman’s menstrual cycle? And I’ve been talking about, well, why aren’t we cycling a woman’s productivity? Why are we not giving women an understanding of when their brains are going to be working the best and when they need to rest, and we can start to cycle a woman’s whole work calendar around that. And then this morning, I went to look at your Instagram. And you have done that. So please start off with the question of why are you cycling your work calendar to your menstrual cycle.

Kate Northrup

I love this. And I’m just so excited to be talking to somebody who gets cycles on such a deep level, possibly more deeply than I do, which is so exciting. So I love to geek out on all the things. So the reason that I organize my work psych, my workflow, and my calendar, according to my menstrual cycle, is the very same reason that one would organize their food and their fasting according to their menstrual cycle. And that has to do with our hormones, our hormones affect, of course, our digestion, our you know, all of that our fat burning our energy systems, all the things, they also impact our brain and our attention, our attention and our focus, and I am on day two of my cycle, just gonna say, waste our tissue. Just so you know, where they’re gonna be tricky, but I’m gonna I’m gonna pull it through. And so when we can organize ourselves, or at least so here’s what’s really important. I’m getting already to the objections that I hear. One of the objections I hear frequently, and this is a living breathing example right now is well, I can just like, you know, podcasts are scheduled months in advance, or, you know, this speaking gig or this pitch at my work or whatever, what have you has been scheduled, I can’t just like, not show up because I have my period or because you know, this or that. And the other thing is just like reorganize your calendar, right? Obviously, that is true. So what I recommend is not only doing our best to organize our tasks, according to what we’re primarily hormonally primed to do, but also organize the way we approach our work. So it’s not necessarily what we’re doing, though, yes, of course, if we can get that organized, great. And we can talk about that. But actually, the thing we have always have control over is how we’re approaching that given week, based on what’s going on with our hormones. Or if you’re in perimenopause, or you’re postmenopausal or you’re pregnant, or you’re nursing or you don’t have a menstrual cycle for whatever reason, or if you’re on hormonal birth control, then, which is a whole other conversation, which we could talk about, but then you want to just use the lunar cycle, because that’s super consistent and very regular and far easier to track.

Dr. Mindy

Quite frankly, I’ve had so many of the peri menopausal women and menopausal women asked me like with fast like a girl, they’re like, Well, how do I time this? And I always go to the lunar cycle as well. And what’s really interesting on that subject is and I’m curious your opinion on this, is that I think because we have so much blue light and so much synthetic light, we’re all out of sync with our menstrual cycle lining up with the lunar cycle. But if we took all that away, we probably all would cycle according to the moon with the day one being a new moon and ovulation being the full moon, which was the most part

Kate Northrup

I think that’s true. It’s actually funny. In college, I spent a semester at sea as part of a crew have a schooner where we had very little artificial light. And we were out at sea for like two weeks at a time without seeing land and we didn’t really have lights. And anyway, there was one woman who was the youngest of the crew, she was 16. And she had always cycled with the new moon and all of the women on the boat started to cycle with her, which was really cool. The only thing to say on that though, is that actually, there was always at least a couple of women cycling on the full moon when the rest of the women were cycling on the new moon so that we could be organized with division of labor and there were people to take care of the ladies who are bleeding and then other people who could take care of the other ladies who are bleeding. So anyway, it that’s a fascinating time. Wow,

Dr. Mindy

that’s all I’m bringing you back just to talk about that. Because you know, one of the things that I’ve been really emphasizing on all the podcasts I’ve been on is how important connection is for women. And we can say that oh, yeah, of course, we see women connect with each other. But what we don’t realize is that in that connection, we’re actually hormonal a changing ourselves. Yes. And that is what’s so profound. So, so let’s do this, I’m going to actually kind of do a what everybody does to me with food and fasting. So walk me through the menstrual cycle, and explain our productivity level based off our hormones, and oh, my God, I’m just gonna sit back with a ton of dopamine rushing through me right now, as you,

Kate Northrup

I love that. And please, you know, insert any extra scientific data because you are the doctor. Okay, and so, the first well, you know, it’s a cycle. So I hesitate to always to say first, but anyway, we’ll start with the menstrual phase of the cycle, which is the time that you’re bleeding. So that during that time, your brain, interestingly enough, is actually the most cross wired between the left and right hemisphere. So this isn’t the time, when we feel the most inward, we feel the least kind of out there social at least for days, one or two day one would be the day that you start bleeding, day one to some of us start to kind of emerge on day three, I always feel like a massive energy shift on day three. But this is the time when we’re the most intuitive, and we are the most in touch with what’s inside us, it’s the time to look within. And it’s also a really good time to make decisions. Because of that cross pollination between the left and right hemispheres, we actually have access to a deeper level of wisdom than we have during the rest of the month. So I really recommend that if you have something you’ve been struggling with, if you have something you’ve been deliberating on, to really bring it into the menstrual phase of your cycle. And you’ll often get clarity on it very quickly, even if you’ve been just obsessing about it for days.

Dr. Mindy

so profound, and something that I’ve thought a lot about with that transitional time. And I when I go back, and I look at what I wrote in fast like a girl, there’s a part of me that wishes I could put more about the transition in and out of the different moments where our hormones are up and down. Because you know, as we get all the way through the cycle, something I’ve been thinking about is that when we are right before we bleed is also a really interesting, intuitive time. And we don’t look at our menstrual cycle as a shedding of everything from toxins to thoughts to old patterns, there’s so much if we got in touch with the the, what the symbolism of the bleed actually means that we could use every month as an opportunity to keep improving all aspects of ourself. And so my question on what you just said is, as we’re shedding the old, are we because of the cross pollination? Are we also more receptive to the new when you say it’s the most intuitive?

Kate Northrup

Okay, so here’s what kind of screws with my brain, I’ll just be honest. And I’ve been studying this stuff in some ways, you know, since I could read but but but seriously, you know, focused on it for about, oh, my gosh, seven years. And so here’s where it gets a little. When we talk about the lunar cycle, the New Moon is a time of planting seeds and putting out your desires and setting intentions. The full moon is the time of release and letting go of anything that standing in the way of you and the completion or the fruition of those seeds, you planted. The menstrual cycle, even though the New Moon is aligned with the phase of bleeding and the menstrual phase, actually, physiologically, like we are having an experience of shedding during the menstrual cycle, it is a time of release. And then at ovulation, we are the most fertile literally and energetically. And so we are actually the most open to new information, new people, new opportunities. And so I find it like there’s sort of two different things going on at the same time, which is a great reminder, and I don’t know if this aligns with what you teach, but I always tell women, like all of this stuff matters and tracking matters and also like put away your protractor because sometimes we can get so obsessed with like doing our cycle right? And if I’m not doing it right, then I’ve completely failed which is a complete trauma response right all are nothing thinking is a trauma response. Perfectionism is a trauma response. And so it’s just interesting to think about, yes, physiologically, it is obviously a time of shedding. And then within a couple of days of your periods starting, we are ramping up into that follicular energy. And of course, the follicular phase technically starts at the same time as your menstrual phase, which also I find confusing. But anyway, like your energy of the first half of your cycle is New Beginning energy, for sure. And it kind of climaxes at ovulation, which is like when the egg is ready. But at that same time with you think about your cycle, metaphorically speaking, right, there’s the time of shedding and release, it can also be a time of grieving, you know, certainly, if you’re somebody who is trying to get pregnant, getting your period, maybe a time of grieving, but also just that feeling of like, what projects, what initiatives, what things in my life are not going to be coming to fruition this particular cycle, there’s going to be more cycles, but what can I let go of, and then around the time, so then there’s that week in between you stop bleeding, then there’s the week in between where you are in that follicular new beginning phase, you know, kind of days, like six through 1011 12. And that is the time where you’re the most primed energetically to start new stuff. Yeah. So it’s like, you know, let me try a new workout. Let me initiate a new project, especially if you’re somebody who has trouble getting going on things. Yep, that’s the week to really lean in. Like if you’re a procrastinator, that’s the week to start your to get going on your book proposal to you know, whatever it is that you want to get to do get going maybe. And then ovulation is kind of like the two three days before and after you actually have the moment of ovulation, which is a moment in time. That’s the time that you’re just like the juiciest, the most fertile, the most verbally fluent, the most attractive, literally and energetically. It’s a great time to socialize. It’s a great time to send outreach. It’s a great time when I’m in ovulation. I always like notice who I feel called to reach out to. And it doesn’t even have to be a formal pitch, but people will just pop into my mind. So I’ll send them a DM I’ll shoot them a text. I’ll just like reconnect because I always trust that. And then luteal I think is our most probably well, they’re all powerful. But luteal is probably our most misunderstood phase, from a hormonal, mental, emotional perspective. luteal is like the 10 to 14 days before you start your period. That is, as you talk about a nurturing time. And it is also the time when our negativity filter is the strongest meaning just, you know, life will just be pokey. We don’t have the hormonal fluff. Love that. cushion to soften the edges. And so it’s great information. Because what we are noticing during our luteal phase, what bugs you during that time, what feels like it’s not working, is great information. And and I always like to say we can trust our feelings at that time, we just can’t necessarily trust the volume of them. So it might feel like the linen cabinet being disorganized is a massive problem. It’s probably not going to ruin your life. But but you may notice like Oh, actually, that’s good information for me. Now I know that as I head into the next cycle, putting attention on the organization and systematize systemization and beauty in my home is actually going to be a priority for me because whatever’s bugging you, and luteal is a really good thing to put on the to do list for your next cycle.

Dr. Mindy

Oh my god, that was brilliant. You have I have so many things I want to say on this. So what we could do is when our cycle starts those first couple of days, we could ask ourselves, What am I what do I need to let go of what no longer serves me? So if I had a job if I had a relationship if I had a habit, really if I want to let go of it in the in in congruence with my hormone, and my energy, those first three days would be the time just like the shedding of the blood.

Kate Northrup

Correct? salutely Absolutely. Now you’ll probably know what it is because it was just bugging you really badly in the few days before you started your period.

Dr. Mindy

Okay, great. So let’s go back to that week before so when that week before everything is agitating you. I think what I’ve really and I agree with you this is the most misunderstood part of the cycle and you know, people around us don’t understand us. We don’t understand ourselves. But whatever is like biting at you poking at you. I love And that poking at you and agitating you is information. Yes. And if we can listen to that, then when we start to bleed now we can let go of whatever that is. And it might be like, unfair, you know, I do want to point out if it’s your husband, it’s not like, okay, husband’s gotta go. Maybe it’s the thought pattern around your husband that more or

Kate Northrup

a way of communication that’s not working for you. Or it could be a habit around your marriage. That’s not working for you. So yeah, it’s definitely like, Yeah, I mean, my children irritate me during that time, but I’m not like getting rid of my children. Right? I’m thinking about, okay, Are there patterns around parenting Are there parts of our schedule that aren’t working for us are there you know, those sorts of things. And so, the menstrual time is a beautiful time of release. But then very quickly, it’s a beautiful time of new beginnings. And it’s a wonderful like, the menstrual cycle gives us this little capsule every single month, that’s an opportunity to be reborn and an opportunity to tend to our life, it’s like an entire year in 28 ish days, that we just get to over and over again, have this opportunity to begin a new and it’s such an incredible gift. And by the way, you don’t have to have a menstrual cycle for that to be true, because the lunar cycle does the same thing. So everyone gets to play.

Dr. Mindy

Yeah, you know, it’s interesting, though, I was sitting this how I even got into, like, the nuance of fasting and eating for your cycle was I was sitting on a panel with a bunch of fasting experts. This was like five years ago, they were all men. And they were talking about how you have to cycle like a weekly cycle, you know, you gotta go in out of feast, famine, cycling. And it hit me in that moment. Like, oh, my gosh, we are so blessed. We have culturally looked at our menstrual cycle as is like negative, and we bitch and we moan about it. But when I in that moment, it was like a lightning bolt hit my head. And I was like, all women have to do is think about timing food and fasting to a cycle they’ve already been given. They don’t have to come up with an with another cycle like men do. And you’re right, they could go do the lunar cycle for the men. But what I don’t want women to lose is the gift. Oh, my god, stop bitching about it. It’s a gift.

Kate Northrup

It’s such a gift. And the same thing applies. So whether it’s your fasting and food, or whether it’s your productivity, I had a very similar moment in 2016, where it was, I was like, Wait a second, my body is doing this thing anyway. And it’s like the greatest time management system of all time. Why would I if this is good enough for the Earth to follow to create all life? Perhaps it might be good enough for me and my business.

Dr. Mindy

Right? Right. So okay, so and I want to get into the business aspect of it too. But so just want to make sure everybody heard that. Check in with yourself, the days leading up that like week before your cycle, what’s agitating you What habits need to let go? First three days, you have that opportunity as you’re shedding to let that go. And then we move into what do we want to bring into our lives?

Kate Northrup

Yes, exactly. And on the first day of my cycle, I always sit with a journal, and some some oracle cards and we got I wanted to call them ovulation cards. Wow. They kind of do, but they’re not. Maybe I’ll create a deck of Avia. I was just gonna say today, it’s called an Oracle deck. And I sit with a deck and I pull a card. That’s going to be the theme I just say, What’s the theme? What’s like the energetic theme of this cycle? And so I pull a card for that. And then I just do some journaling. Like I get why I call it my menstrual download, and I just get, you know, what do I need to let go of? What do I need to be putting my attention on this cycle? And then yes, what seeds Am I planting and those seeds I’m not going to really do anything for a couple of days because the menstrual phase is really a time of rest and reflection. It’s not like a super doing phase. At least not for the first couple of days. I get a lot of doing energy on day three, but each woman really needs to pay attention to her own experience so that she knows what is happening with her I can’t tell you what each day is gonna

Dr. Mindy

feel like I think that’s where this gets confusing is we want to look for an absolute but when you’re dealing with the feminine body, the female body and there are no absolutes, so and the psycho we can give sort of big pictures but when we have to get into what works for you so I’m super happy you said that. And Kate I’m going to task you with doing a journal and oracle cards that is not on my book writing list, but I’m hoping it’s not yours.

Kate Northrup

I do have I did create a do less planner actually it’s right here so so it kind of systematizes the whole thing around your cycle and planning your productivity by don’t have a deck yet. So perhaps that’ll be forthcoming.

Dr. Mindy

Okay, I’m gonna put, we’ll link that planner because I don’t we’re gonna get a lot of questions on that. So the other quality of of estrogen as estrogen is building in those first 10 days that I think it doesn’t get talked about enough. The first we’ve talked about how the first couple of days, it just takes some us a little bit of getting going. But estrogens like an extrovert to me, she is like I you know, if she was at the party, she’d be the one like socializing with everybody like dancing on the table. Like, that’s the energy of estrogen. So when new ideas come in, around day nine day 10, pay close attention to those. And as women, estrogen also loves for us to verbally process. So if we could chat through them with a friend or, or talk them out loud, then we move into ovulation. And I have said for further through the whole pandemic, I was like, we just need to put all the ovulating women in one room and they’re gonna figure this shit out. So because we are so wickedly powerful at that time, so talk to us a little bit about day 11 to 15. What can we create, I call it the manifestation phase

Kate Northrup

loves that you call it the manifestation phase. So I call it visibility. It’s really the time to bring your ideas, not all of them. But like the ones you’re focusing on this cycle, from idea phase initiation phase into actually like visibility. So meaning maybe, maybe the pitch meeting is actually happening. Maybe you’re actually picking up the phone, maybe you’re actually going live on a webinar or on Instagram, maybe your podcast goes live, or maybe you’re batching a ton of podcast episodes, because you will be very articulate during that time and just really magnetic and have way more energy. You know, I know, for example, during that time, days, 11 to 15, I can do way more zoom than I can like on a day like today, I have to zoom calls the end, that’s enough. But on on an ovulation day, I can totally do five and also feel super psyched and energized to play with my kids and like also go out to dinner with a friend like planned being there. More is more at that time. I don’t do less at that time I do more, then I know that during the back half of my cycle, you know, starting for me it’s like around day 20 I’ll be curious of your thoughts about that. But like on around day 20 Certainly I just like kind of go into a cave and I can feel myself ascending into the underground. And so that’s the back end of my cycle is like now I’m now I am doing less certainly of the outward things. But anyway that ovulation time is like 11 to 15 days 11 to 15 make it visible, put it out into the world, you know, it’s it’s more masculine energy, right? That’s when we have our testosterone, testosterone beautiful, like that’s the time to lean into your healthy masculine. And take the action steps and make it visible and manifest. Like you said,

Dr. Mindy

Oh my god, I have chills right now. Because this is what I’ve been out there talking about. And I’ve been wanting to geek out with somebody about that. Because testosterone, I believe get it just like estrogen. I feel like we have the wrong interpretation of it. So you say in testosterone, and everybody thinks libido sure it has that piece. But testosterone is motivation and drive. So what I have been telling people is that a little you know, I agree with everything you just said. But it’s also the time that you’ve got the best verbal skills because you have estrogen. You have a little bit of progesterone. So you’re a little bit calm. And you’ve got all this motivation and drive. So projects, like you said, are great, but I also think if there’s something that like a conflict you really need to address in your life. That’s the time you’re hormonally the best to do it. And I’ve actually been teaching men this as well. And and I’ve talked to several men and said if you have a challenge with your wife, find out when ovulation you know her ovulation period is because she is going to have that hormonal superpower to be able to really constructively break down that conflict. Don’t come at her the week before her period. You are not shut out.

Kate Northrup

Do not do that. But yeah, communication skills if there’s a difficult conversation you need to have or a crucial conversation you need to have I love the idea of doing it around ovulation because we don’t want to do it when our negativity filter is high. We just really don’t it’s not I mean, whatever you because sometimes you have to but

Dr. Mindy

yeah, yeah. Right. Exactly. So but then I don’t know how old your kids are But Ivan seven, five and seven Oh, boy girl, two girls to go perfect. Okay, so, so you’re gonna have to report back to me in about five, six years. But what I’ve been really expressing to parents even is once your daughter goes starts her period, it’s a really interesting time because often parents get feel like they are shut out. And what I’m encouraging parents of teenagers to do is know your teenage daughter’s menstrual cycle and love on her like I taught a guy the other day. I’m like, if you just put your hand on your daughter shoulder the week before her period and just say I’m here, perfect, then walk away. Don’t tell her she didn’t do her homework. Don’t tell her, you know, come at her strong because she left something at the bottom of the stairs. Save that for ovulation. And then when in during ovulation, now you’re going to end up with a human that’s much more receptive to being able to deal with the conflict that she might need to know to be able to walk through with you 100 What do you think of that,

Kate Northrup

I love this so much. And it’s something I really look forward to with my girls. Because knowing someone’s menstrual cycle is like having a user’s manual, like, and really having a guidebook to how to relate to them in the best way where you’re going to get the best results. And I’m so excited to pass this along to my girls and, you know, to be able to hopefully have like, as beautiful as possible, have a teen experience with them. And also to teach them this because I will say like, my mom sort of tried to teach me but I really wasn’t available for it for whatever reason. And so I learned in my early 30s, which was also wonderful. I just taught myself,

Dr. Mindy

right, well, yeah, you know, it’s done like, like the perfect teenager, you know, like anything your mom’s into, you’re gonna you’re gonna resist. Thank you. Yeah, my, my daughter is 23 and has done the same thing. And yet, I will tell you, they’re like really proud mama moments like, like, the other day, she was having a stressful moment. And she said to me, I just need to go get some oxytocin. I’ll be right back. And I was like, yes, she got it, she got it that that was the master hormone that can start to change all other hormones. So I do believe like conversations like we’re having right now are massively important on so many different different levels. So people can understand us. But I also want to say to the women listening, this is the language in which we can talk to those around us. So do you do you do that when you’re like talking to your husband? Do you what about your, your your team? Do you? I mean, just like we started this off? You’re like, I’m on day two? Here? Oh, yeah. I

Kate Northrup

mean, I have you know, I mean, people will say like, oh, maybe this is TMI, and I’m like, No, definitely not. Yeah, the day I start my period, I let my husband know, I also let him know a few days leading up just so you know, I’m in my prickly time. And he’s like, okay, great. Good to know. And then yeah, then I let him know. And even my girls like, they were like, Mama, let’s run to school. And I was like, not today. Mama’s on day two of her period. I am not running. But thank you for asking. They were like, Mimi ran with us. And I’m like, well, Mimi is 65 and kelenic. can run with me, me. But anyway, yeah, I love using it as it’s really our user’s manual for our own bodies, our user’s manual for our relationships, letting people in on how to how they can meet our needs. I mean, that’s such a challenge for women historically, is even accepting that we have needs not to mention asking for them to be met. And this gives us such a beautiful way to do that. And also to know that, you know, on days, you know, let’s just say days, like four to 15, or whatever you you decide for yourself, but like, those are the days you’re also going to be really available to be of service to others. So, to know that too, that like I’m gonna have so much more bandwidth to be like, fold all the towels, make all the meals, do all the playdates do the crafts, you know, all of those things on the end. So I’m gonna lean heavy on that. While I know I’m hormonally primed to do that. So that when I’m not, I’m not having this whole story about guilt that I’m doing a terrible job being a mom or a wife or, or a business owner or whatever. Like we can organize it so that all the stuff that needs to happen gets done, and it gets done at the right phase when we’re primed for it. So it takes a lot less energy and then when we don’t have the energy for it, we’ve already Need done it and we can lean into, for example, during the luteal phase, we’re actually incredibly detail oriented. So I am not a naturally detail oriented person. So I keep a list of tasks like, call Citibank about, like, I remember, like, the little doodads that I just really don’t want to do most of the time. I do them during that time when I just want to shut the door, you know, days 20 through 28, or whatever it is for, for me. But those tasks that I’m just like, I really need to have that prime for details. The other thing I’ll do during that time, which is particular to me, but I think people listening will have something that’s like this for them. I actually do my best writing during my luteal phase, because I don’t care as much what other people think that negativity filter actually serves me at that time, I’m much more inwardly oriented. So my filter is less. And so therefore, I’m not doing so much self editing, and my writing is more spicy, and it’s just more powerful. So that’s an example of, you know, when we track this for ourselves, we get to know Oh, if I have a lot of writing done to do get it done during that time, because I’ll be faster because I’m not self editing.

Dr. Mindy

Oh my gosh, I this is where I wish I had a cycle. I’m six months into my menopausal journey. And I’m like, Oh, the more I learned, the more I wish I could go back to my younger self, right. I

Kate Northrup

I just turned 40. And I’m thinking like, all right, I don’t know. You know, of course, we don’t know how many more years we have. But I want to lean on it hard because it is fun. It’s fun. It’s fascinating. And you know, yeah.

Dr. Mindy

So from a workflow standpoint, that starting about day 19 day 20. What do you do? So you know, you’re supposed to go in Are you know, you have this negativity, negativity bias. How do you set up your workday? Do you less meetings, you said less zoom calls? Sure.

Kate Northrup

Less meetings, like so all go heavier on meetings from days, like four through? Like I said, maybe 16 1718? That I know, I’m gonna have capacity for that. But once a day, yeah, 1718 Certainly 20 hits. I’m finding people very irritating. So and by the way, like, what I’m discussing right now is not PMS. So just to be clear, like PMS is premenstrual syndrome. It is like a set of symptoms that are not an indication of a healthy single cycle. Yes. And so I am talking about very low grades, subtle shifts in my energy, saying that your PMS thing because you’re in your luteal phase is inaccurate. Yeah, if you have premenstrual symptoms, that’s a whole other conversation. I actually don’t I just feel a little annoyed, which is normal and healthy. And I actually think very helpful, because of the cyclical nature and understanding, like, oh, what bugs me during this time, is what I may want to attend to next cycle. But just to be clear, I’m not talking about like symptoms that I need to do something about.

Dr. Mindy

So I think you bring up a really important point, because there’s like a new term that’s gained thrown around right now called PMDD. And I always say to myself, what, you know what, when I was 25, we didn’t have the term PMDD. So just because we have a new term for it doesn’t mean that every woman has to experience that what I actually think is going on for women right now is that we are not doing what this what you and I are talking about. So we are working out of accordance with our hormones. And when you eat out of accordance with your hormones, you work out of accordance you’ve, you work out diff against those hormonal profiles, you’re going to have PMS and PMDD. But if you don’t want that, you want to master what we’re talking about.

Kate Northrup

For sure. And like PMDD and PMS are symptoms of hormonal imbalance. And obviously, if people fast like a girl, they can work on that. Exactly, that’s where you would want to lean in. But so during this time, I know that I’m just going to you know, life is going to be pokey. So I try to spend more time by myself, I’m not going to go do a bunch of social things at night, I often will just want to like pull up the comforter up to my chin and read a book alone and take a bath and I just really lean into that. Like there’s I don’t judge myself about it. I’m like, This is my inward time. I’m a really social person. I’m an extrovert. So I lean pretty hard on luteal, and those times I want to be by myself because it is pretty short. And there’s nothing wrong with it. Like it’s beautiful. I love spending time by myself and I get great information. When I am willing to have that quiet or time. It’s also a great time to get projects over the finish line. So it is sort of the tail end of our cycle. So of course hormonally, we would be primed to finish things So it’s the time that I want to tend, like, I’ll notice I want to I want to declutter my house, I want to like get my email inbox cleaned out I want to get all the things on my to do list checked off and that is organized because during the time we’re bleeding is really the best time to do as little as possible. So it’s very similar to the nuts gathering. I mean the squirrels gathering nuts before winter, winter time is the same as the menstrual cycle like menstrual is winter. And so you want to be that little squirrel gathering the nights clearing the decks you know, sweeping the front front porch, all of those things so that you can go in and have a good rest of men so as much as you can do that as much during luteal as I can to clear the decks that’s what I think about close the door, clear the decks, and then it gives me the space to go into my bleed and just like have a minute.

Dr. Mindy

Yeah. Oh my god, I just it’s perfection what you’re saying I hope everybody takes this information and just runs with it. I say progesterone is an introvert. So if s if estrogen is the extrovert pedestrian’s progesterone is the introvert. And what’s beautiful about being a woman is we can be both extroverted and introverted. So I’m like you I’m an I am naturally an extrovert. But if I don’t get some introverted time, then I become a really cranky extrovert. And as I’ve moved through menopause, I it’s been, it’s been really interesting to try to get to know myself through other lenses. And I keep saying to myself, I got to just understand the personalities of these hormones. So one of the things I do is that if I wake up, and all of a sudden I’m famished that day, and I want to eat a bunch of carbs. I go, Oh, progesterone is here. Okay, she needs me to tend to her. So let me do all the qualities that I know that’s going to soothe progesterone so she can really do the little bit of progesterone that I’m getting, how do I help support her on this day, whereas on the days that I have, like, I want to chat with everybody, I could fast all day, I want to work out a bunch. I’m like, Okay, this is estrogen. So this I can do all the principles that I know that’s going to love on estrogen. And so I think that’s how as we go through perimenopause, and menopause, we just need to get to know the personalities and look at these hormones like they’re our friends.

Kate Northrup

Yes, I love this so much. I’m so excited that I have your resources for when I make that transition.

Dr. Mindy

We’ll bring it back. So one question I have for you is then do you change your workouts during your monthly?

Kate Northrup

Yes, so it’s so interesting. So I’ve just read fast like a girl and also women food and hormones by Sara Gottfried, and also young forever. So like, I’m on this thing right now. Yeah, got a lot, you got all the best blocks, like really going for it. I’ve my husband calls it Project 120. It’s like my, my, you know, I’m gonna live until I’m 120. Guys. Um, so I’ve been shifting a little bit and just actually, last night doing a little bit more research about this. Typically, on days one and two of my cycle, I don’t exercise, if anything, I’ll go for a walk. But honestly, I’m just like, tired. And I’m just like, You know what, it’s okay. And then have permission, that’s myself permission to just kind of not do anything. By day three. Again, like, I’m usually kind of ready to go back to the gym, but I’m not going to go with the heaviest hardest. First of all, I mean, maybe this is too much information for people. But like, if I’m lifting a lot of weights, like I’m actually it’s gonna like make me bleed a whole bunch in that moment, and then I’m gonna have a situation at the gym, so that’s no good.

Kate Northrup

I will, you know, I’ll moderate and probably not going to do like hit workouts or Tabata while I’m bleeding. Because for me like again, I also know from my yoga teacher training, like inversions would be not uprising. But then yeah, I mean, I’m going like right out of the gate went in follicular, like days, you know, six on and then coming into luteal I might switch it more into more walking, yoga, pilates, but I really do a lot of strength training and the hit workouts, you know, kind of like days. Five to 20. Yes. And other ones, slow it down or maybe do nothing for a few days.

Dr. Mindy

Exactly. So, this I’ve also been talking about and I’m actually pairing up. Do you know, Tony Horton p90x? Yeah. Okay. So I was I did Pete When in my when I was in my early 40s. I did p90x, totally p90x. I did it every day for three years, which is I know but I it wasn’t Really the what we’re talking about was against going against that grain. So Tony and I are actually filming a set of workouts that will allow women to be able to time their workouts to their menstrual cycle. So we’re gonna be bringing that to the world in October. But what I’ve told him was, why don’t we use testosterone to our weightlifting advantage. So day 10 A lot, you know, 1011 to 15, you have the most amount of testosterone. So why don’t we go stronger with our weights. Now, what’s interesting is we also have to be aware that estrogen is at her peak, and estrogen makes ligaments really tight, and makes and makes tendons really loose. So you’re pretty prone to injury during that time. So if you’re going to lift heavy, you want to do slow, heavy wraps, and now you’re matching all the hormones that are coming in, right? Again, why do women to have a weekly workout plan? Why don’t we have a monthly workout plan?

Kate Northrup

It really should be I mean, really, everything should be monthly. If you’re if you are so and I really love I have to say I really loved and fast like a girl how you were like if you don’t have a menstrual cycle right now, just start on day one. Like I just I don’t think that we probably immune tell me from a hormonal perspective. But I don’t think we stop being cyclical. It just the nature of our cyclicality switches, and maybe it’s a little more subtle,

Dr. Mindy

more subtle, and and that’s also why I’m like the backup is to get to know you the personality. So you know, we’ve got a lot of women, one of the things that really shocked me with fast like a girl is how many 30 year olds have reached out and are like, I don’t have a period. I’m newly married. I want to get I get want to get pregnant. I’ve been on birth control since I was 13. And their hormones are all off. So the new group that I’m really teaching how to get in touch with their with who they are or the 30 year olds. Oh, cool. So we’ve got we’ve got to know the personalities. And then we’ve got the other thing is we have to give ourselves permission. So I love how you explained the week before your period. Because in all honesty, what do we do as women we bitch and moan because I just want to sit on the couch, I don’t feel like working out I want to eat a tub of ice cream and a box of pizza. And if you put some chocolate there, I’m happy. Yeah, because that’s, that’s what progesterone is asking you to do. Now, not the ice cream in the pizza, we can do it in a way. But what I want everybody to hear and in your story that’s so brilliant is you’re giving yourself permission to slow down. And that is not a weakness that is actually a strength that we need to lean into

Kate Northrup

100% and it supports. So here’s what I love about the metaphor of fertility, when we are leaning in and eating those hormone feasting foods, and nurturing ourselves and slowing down during the time when that’s what we feel like doing. It only supports our fertility. Now, you and I are not trying to get pregnant, right? But if you Yeah, for sure, let’s just be really clear. Well, I can complete with that down that road again. However, however, metaphorically speaking, energetically speaking, we’re totally trying to get pregnant, like we’re making new stuff all the time. And so if we think about this whole idea of productivity, the toxic form of productivity is I’m doing shit all the time. And I’m on all the time. And like, I mean, you know, and then the the healthy form of productivity is the metaphor of pregnancy, which is like we are fertile to the degree that we are caring for ourselves. And we can create incredibly healthy babies, when and we can be available for that when we are slowing down. We are supporting our progesterone, we are having hormone feasting foods, we are nurturing ourselves, that’s the only way we can be ultimately productive in a healthy way. And so for anybody who’s thinking, like I can’t slow down, I have too much stuff to do. Or if I slow down, you know, my life is going to fall apart. I would really invite you to look at the pregnancy metaphor for the ultimate productivity which like I personally, definitely creating to humans is like the wildest thing I’ve ever done. You know, I think it will be forever Yeah, and so that’s always my model of like, what did it take to do that? Okay, I’m gonna use that same wisdom for whether it’s I’m writing a book whether it’s that I’m you know, planning a five year old birthday party like

Dr. Mindy

oh my gosh, just don’t do it the way before your I hope you I hope you time to pull I guess it’s a it’s a Birthday, you can’t time it

Kate Northrup

birthday, it is what it is. But you know what? So it’s interesting. I was I was planning it in sort of like the time that would not be optimal. So I called in a lot of extra help. Excellent. I was like, this is not the time for me to be this is not a good solo act time. So, yeah, so just have, you know, mother in law helping out and a former nanny and some help raising? Dr. Mindy I think that so that’s the beautiful piece that I want everybody to hear is that if the timing is not right, then at I love that brings support in or maybe if you’re like, I have this huge work event and it is timed completely wrong, then what else? Can you let go of that time? So that you Kate Northrup let go of and also how can you add in support for yourself? Yeah, so it’s not so much yeah, like, what can you let go of? Is there anything that can be canceled? Is there anything that can be moved out, and then also like the maybe you’re just going to go to bed earlier, maybe you’re going to not watch a show and instead take a bath? Maybe you’re going to walk slower from school pickup to your home? You know, like, it can be little

Dr. Mindy

Yeah, I love that. You know that when we went to look at the fasting cycle, I was looking at the different names of each of each of the phases. And I was going to originally call the week before our periods, the chill out phase. And then I was like, No, there’s a deeper essence that I want women to know, which is where I came up with nurture was like, and really, it’s about nurturing ourselves. Although for the men listening, and I hope men listen to this, this is a great time to nurture us, you know, if you want to connect to us, and really, you know, let us feel your support, nurture us during that time, that’s been my mantra, but leave us alone, but nurture us.

Kate Northrup

Totally. Can you nurture me without touching me? Thank you.

Dr. Mindy

Oh, my God, that is so true and so confusing for bed. But that’s exactly right. Like, you just keep asking me if I you know, if I need anything, like I’ll let you know. But if you just keep a little distance, that’s good, too. You want to throw a hug in every once awhile for some oxytocin. I’m all good. But don’t expect a lot from me during that time. Don’t expect a lot. Yeah. And I think that’s really key. Okay, now,

Dr. Mindy

here’s another like, elevation of of what we’re talking about that I’m trying to think about how culturally we can do this. So we live in a patriarchal world. And I, one of the things I’ve been saying about our healthcare system is it’s so patriarchal, and we need to bring the matriarch back into it, we got to bring the feminine back into it, which is what we’re talking about here. And so the work world is also that and you know, a lot of women are like, you know, the Rosie the Riveter, like, you know, I am woman hear me roar. And I gotta tell you, I have a picture of Rosie the Riveter in my house. And during my 40s, there were many times I looked at her and I was like, I don’t think you had it. Right. Rosie, I think you only had part of the of the equation. The other part is, how do we let others know around us? Like, thank you for that work? Task? Thank you for bringing me that problem. I’ll answer you in five days, is it? Do we have a world where we can show it as our as our strength, not a weakness to be able to stand up? We don’t have to be like, Oh, my God, I’m on day 21. Get away from me. You don’t say that to your boss, or your coworker? But you could say, That’s really interesting. And I’m going to sit on it. And I will let you know, in a few days, they don’t have to know that you’re waiting for estrogen to start to come in?

Kate Northrup

No, they don’t. I mean, different work cultures are going to be different. I certainly know I, you know, primarily female companies were actually the day and phase of your cycle is totally common to talk about wonderful, but that’s not going to be the norm. So, yeah, I think that in general, all of us, man, woman, no matter your gender identity, no matter your age, would really benefit from shifting our culture. So that things that are non emergent, remain non emergent, where it is completely normal and acceptable to take 48 hours to respond to somebody where somebody else’s emergency does not become our emergency and where we really ask ourselves like, is this does this require a response right now? And what is the real timeline? And so we need to look at how are we creating all kinds of false urgency, and that is because we live in a culture, which has addicted us to immediate feedback and you talked about the dopamine in your books, you know, that we have this tendency to just want it fast, and we need to perhaps do a dopamine release that fast. And really like, look at where am I creating emergencies as a way of as essentially a stimulant in my life? And how could I create aliveness in other ways, so that I’m not using emergencies and pressure and stress as a way to make me feel alive.

Dr. Mindy

So well said that. So. Yeah, that is that is that’s I feel like the plight of the modern woman is that we are living in an evolutionary mismatch, where the modern world has us addicted to all forms of dopamine, and has us addicted to all forms of crises. And we are not hormonally matched to that.

Kate Northrup

Totally. And unfortunately, the more we ascribe to it, the more our hormones get out of whack, right, unlike all these other problems downstream. And so I really like to have company agreements. So something now I run a small business, but we have enough people and enough, you know, players to have agreements about what are our expectations around communication, how fast what is urgent, what is non urgent, what’s the boundaries so that we all really can work in a way that is very healthy. So no matter what, if you work in a department, like maybe you could lead up resetting departmental communication agreements, that are in support of the health of the company, because whatever is healthy for the workers, is every single time healthy for the company, we’ve just been brainwashed to think that what’s good for our bodies is bad for the bottom line. But one of my mottos is body first business second, because when you put the body first, productivity increases, absenteeism decreases, turnover decreases, and joy increases and profit increases, the data is unequivocal. It’s just the way it works.

Dr. Mindy

Amazing. So I was just talking about this this morning with one of my team members, I was like, we have to think about how it was like another elevation of thought for me of how am I taking care of my cycling women that are on my team? What kind of support can we give them to be able to understand this conversation? Fact? I’m going to have them all listen to it. But then what kind of like space? Are we giving them like the week before their period? And how are we using their brains when they’re ovulating? This is where you could start to really take our superpowers and turn them into profit and into business ideas. Now, I think you’re gonna have the patriarch, listening a little more closely, if they understand exactly what you just said that body first business second, and with that will come your profits that you’re so deeply wanting? totally incredible. Ah, okay, well, I can talk to you forever. I have one last question. I ask everybody. But one before I go there, we’re gonna bring you back to talk finances. But do we have spending habits? Do they differ with our menstrual cycle?

Kate Northrup

Oh, yes. I mean, we can get very spendy in the ovulation phase, because there’s that like that. It’s very like, well, and really with the whole estrogen, it’s like, you know, lipstick and handbags. Like, oh, yeah, that’s like a total stereotypical thing. But what it might be running shoes for you. It might be yoga tights, I mean, we can get like, because it’s like all jersey, like, you know, it feels fun and sexy. Which is not a problem, right? It’s not necessarily a problem. But it’s just to know these things about ourselves that one of the things I teach in my program, relaxed money is actually a whole segment on aligning your financial management with your menstrual cycle, because it’s very specific, but it’s because if you can lean into your hormonal experience, then you can get a lot more bang for your buck, out of your budgeting out of your bookkeeping out of your spending plan out of your investing. And like you said at the beginning of this conversation, why would we not align every single area with our cyclical nature, so why not our finances? And I love thinking about I love thinking about that, you know, like during your luteal phase is a really wonderful time to analyze your spending and say, What am I spending that’s in alignment with my values and my goals? And what am I spending? That’s not because it’s just going to be really obvious because your brain is more analytical and detail oriented at that time. So I mean, that’s just one example.

Dr. Mindy

Right? And maybe he goes to your financial advisor during ovulation. Not not the week before your period, probably not. Especially if you don’t want him or her to, you know, tell you something you don’t want to hear that might not work out well for you. Yes, amazing. Amazing. Okay, well, we could we could go all day and I just, this is like a glass of water on a very thirsty De for me, this was incredible. So thank you for that. And I always end my all my podcasts with a question. And I always have a theme each year. So this theme this year is self love. And, and it’s also I’m really trying to especially women to get women to brag about their superpower. So tell me what your daily self love practice looks like. I think we just heard a monthly one. And what is your superpower that you bring to the world?

Kate Northrup

Okay, great. So my daily self love practice is, I take an extraordinarily long time to get my day going, which is a new thing for me. Like I don’t, I don’t book anything before 10am. And I luxuriate and I work out and I do my red light therapy. And I do do detox things. And I lie on my bio mat and I just like move at the speed. I feel like moving and that is so revolutionary because I spent the first 40 years of my life rushing. So that’s my daily Self Love is a slow morning, nine times out of 10 and my superpower is making seemingly complicated or unrelated things related and digestible and practical and doable. I would

Dr. Mindy

absolutely agree. Because we just witnessed that so amazing. How do people find you what to what I know you have some courses and new stuff coming up. But I just hope everybody listening goes and dips into your information because it’s revolutionary.

Kate Northrup

Thank you. The best place to find me is over on Instagram at Kate Northrup, that’s the place I hang out the most. All all my stuff is is there. My website is Kate northrup.com. So those would be the two spots.

Dr. Mindy

Amazing. Amazing. Well, Kate, this again, this may have been the highlight of my year just to have this conversation with somebody who’s putting it into action that’s thought about it. So you know, I just so appreciate you and keep up keep all the great work up. So thank you for coming on and I can’t wait to do it again. We’re gonna do it again. So

Kate Northrup

I love that. Thank you so much. Yeah, thank you