The Truth About Fats: Good vs. Bad Oils – With Jeff Nobbs

Dr. Mindy
For starters, thank you, Jeff for taking the time and being here and welcome to the resetter podcast. You what you don’t see behind me is a lot of very enthusiastic people that are trying to get well. And in this crazy toxic world we’re living in. And we have not had a discussion on seed oils yet. So I just want to say welcome and thank you for being here to have this discussion with me.

Jeff Nobbs
Nice, happy to be here definitely want to shine more of a spotlight on how problematic seed oils can be because they’re there and everything. So appreciate you having this conversation with me. Yeah,

Dr. Mindy
of course. You know, I used to think for the longest time that the enemy of the human body was refined carbohydrates, and I don’t I still think that’s really problematic. But I’ve since put seed oils and inflammatory oils as the number one food change people need to make. So can we start off this conversation with why the oils I’m getting at my restaurant? The oils, I’m getting in the in my market in the market? Like why do oils matter? And how do we navigate which oils are good and which oils are bad?

Jeff Nobbs
Okay, great place to start. And we can go down a lot of rabbit holes here. And I agree, I think you know, that would be the number one piece of advice I’d give from a dietary standpoint as well, as well as step number one, get rid of the seed oil. So first of all, we’re talking about seed oils, you know, what does that mean? canola or rapeseed oil, soybean oil, corn oil, sunflower, safflower oil, cottonseed oil. These are the typical seed oils that you’ll see in the on the back of packaged foods, and unfortunately, in most restaurant meals, and when looking at whether these are good or bad for us there, there are a lot of different angles to attack that question from. One is looking at what has changed in our diet, since we went from being mostly healthy to mostly unhealthy unfortunately, you know, today, the majority of Americans have a chronic disease. And the biggest single change in our diets in the last 100 years during that time from unhealthy to to, rather from healthy to unhealthy has been the introduction and continued growth of seed oils in our diets. And in a nutshell, what makes the oils so problematic is that they’re very high in a type of fatty acid called linoleic acid. linoleic acid is a type of omega six fat. And it’s found in all foods naturally, but in very small amounts, you know, one to 3% of calories as linoleic acid. But in seed oils, they’re as high as 5060 75% of calories as linoleic acid. So, you know, exponentially orders of magnitude higher than a mountain we would have naturally in our diet. And so what happens when we consume large amounts of linoleic acid, that’s where a lot of data is coming out just in the last decade, showing a lot of bad things happen from weight gain, and ultimately obesity to heart disease, cancer, insulin resistance, even dementia, Alzheimer’s, it seems to be a central cause in a lot of disease states. And and so you know, one way to look at it, what’s changed? Another way to look at it is what do the observational studies say, you know, people who tend to eat more seed oils, you know, what are their health outcomes that, you know, I’ll be the first to say observational studies are not what we should be basing our nutrition science on or dietary guidelines. But it’s kind of step one. And, you know, there’s a couple ways to look at this one is a population level. And when you look at what happens when certain populations introduce the oils to their diets, inevitably 100% of the time, they get diseases of Western civilization, they get sick and fat. Similarly, there’s no there’s no nation out there, no tribe, no community, no population that has introduced soils and not gotten sick. And there’s no you know, no population that’s sick, that hasn’t introduced the oils. And, and then kind of, you know, the next step would be randomized controlled trials. And, and you typically don’t do that until you have a hypothesis based on observational studies. And the randomized controlled trials show the same thing. More seed oils, more linoleic acid, more heart disease, more cancer, and more weight gain, you know, those are sort of the the ones that most people care about. And in a nutshell, it’s because I’ve got linoleic acid content, and that linoleic acid, then turning into other even more problematic compounds, once they’re oxidized, either in the frying pan before we eat them. Which going back to your original question of why should we be worried about this when we’re eating out at restaurants? It’s because we’re oxidizing those unstable high linoleic seed oils, in the frying pan in the deep fryer, even in the bottle, they’re sitting on a shelf before we even eat them, but even eating them fresh they oxidize in our bodies. So you know what’s actually going on mechanistically is that oxidation even more problematic compounds?

Dr. Mindy
Is it you know, you have me thinking is there a culture that doesn’t have seed oils now and do we see their health outcomes? I feel like oh, Are our fast food our are horrible ingredients have like infiltrated the world? Do we have any examples of the health and outcomes of cultures that do not use seed oils?

Jeff Nobbs
Yeah, you have to go to remote areas of the world and hunter gatherer populations, because that’s that those are literally the only populations who don’t have soils in their diet. Developed countries, and maybe even especially developing countries are eating more and more soils and represent a significant portion of our calories 20% In the US, lower in some countries higher and others. So you have to go to, for example, the Kitab ins of Papa New Guinea, I have a restaurant we actually named our restaurant after the Kitab ins because we look up to their health outcomes. Several researchers have gone there and everyone’s fed the Kenyan find a pimple extremely low rates of cancer, heart disease. And they eat a diet of basically fish, occasional pork, you know, vegetables, a lot of tubers, like sweet potatoes, coconut milk, you know, they’re not deep frying and soybean oil, that’s for sure. And there are other populations like that, for example, in Africa, the hodza, there’s a population in South America, as well as the hodza, where you know, there are, there’s documentation of everyone being fit and thin and healthy outside of maybe not being able to find enough calories, because of their hunting zones being encroached on, etcetera. But there tend to be a few people who are overweight, and folks who have gone there and sort of inquired about why, in in Africa, the reason was, oh, that’s the person who goes into the village and you know, eats the, into the flower and vegetable oils. And in the case of a tribe in South America, the members of the tribe who had access to boats were more overweight. And you know, what is it about a boat that makes people fat? It was because they, you know, they boat into the villages, and they buy, primarily based on the documentation basically says refined flours and vegetable oils. So even these populations that historically not had any seed oils in the last 100 years, that’s starting to change, unfortunately,

Dr. Mindy
having that yeah, they’re having that’s, that’s so sad. What about the Mediterranean diet? We always hear about how powerful the Mediterranean diet is, because they bring in all the the good omega threes and the olive oil. Is it too hard? Like to look at a country? Like, I’m just gonna pull Greece, you know, that has like lives, the Mediterranean diet, have it? We can’t say all of oil is the hero of the day anymore, because really, it’s getting the bad seed oils out. And then olive oil could shine. Is that, like, Where does olive oil fit into that? And where does the Mediterranean diet fit into that?

Jeff Nobbs
Yeah, the Mediterranean diet is was excellent marketing in the 1990s. It’s actually pretty incredible how I’ve heard this from yep, yep. So you know, I’m talking about like a somewhat obscure region of the world. And there are lots of regions of the world but the Mediterranean in particular is one that researchers focused on, and, you know, highlighted and it became a sensation in the US, there was a lot of marketing to make olive oil, a popular vegetable oil in the US, and it worked really, really well. You know, it wasn’t it was it was not canola or corn, it was It wasn’t Western, or Mazola. It was kind of new and exciting. You know, the chefs were using it. Extra virgin olive oil, how to cut peppery, bitter, gassy taste that was new and exciting and different. But when you look at the Mediterranean region, what actually makes it healthy. There are so many different things that are going on there compared to Americans, especially in a few years ago. It’s impossible. So it’s any one thing. You know, they tend to fast more, for example, they tend to walk up and down hills and in Greece in particular, it’s very hilly, so there’s a lot of walking, there’s a lot of community there is more fish consumption. So they’re getting more omega threes and omega threes compete biologically with enzymatic pathways in our bodies with Omega six fats like linoleic acid, so they can be protective against the harm of omega six fats. And and I think the olive oil or even animal fats that they in the past when it kind of was coming onto the scene tended to consume in place of you know, corn oil and canola oil. They were doing their health a huge favor. Olive oil is I’d call it a moderate linoleic acid oil, it’s way better than soybean oil or, or corn oil or safflower oil. But it’s you know, it’s nine to 20 something percent linoleic acid, not 50 to 75. But also not, you know, one or two or three or four like in most, most Whole Foods and is full of poly phenols and other compounds that appear to potentially be beneficial. So yeah, olive oil, you know, 10 days out of 10, I’d rather have olive oil than than any of these other seed oils.

Dr. Mindy
Yeah, but it’s not what I hear is olive oil isn’t the hero of the day, that there’s more to the oil discussion. And when you when you bring up the linoleic acid, you know where my brain goes, is the fact that the outside of every cell is a by lipid fatty membrane. And so it’s going to either accept a good fat and it’ll nourish the cell, or it’s going to clog that cell up so that now all the hormones vitamin D, all the nutrients can’t get in, is that a simple way we can look at this with linoleic is it’s creates congestion and inflammation in the cell. And so every time we eat it, we’re we’re not just affecting in inflammation on a systemic level that we’re affecting hormones that can get in nutrients that get in, like talk about the damage on a cellular level that happens with linoleic acid.

Jeff Nobbs
So you’re exactly right, we literally are what we eat. And every cell in our body is made of lipids, like you said, you know, lipids or oils or fats, and we don’t get those things from the air, we get them from our diet, that’s the only place we get them from. So what are cells are made of, you know, the lipid bilayer. And lipids are appear in our body more than just in cell walls. But in particular, that lipid bilayer is from what we eat. And so when we are eating oils high in linoleic acid, from an evolutionary standpoint, our body has never had to deal with a diet of 10% Plus, when oleic acid in particular, all of our cells are then made of that, and that stays in our body for years. Unfortunately, I think the half life is something like two and a half years, even if you quit see oils, cold turkey.

Dr. Mindy
Okay, that’s I don’t want to miss this point. Because this is something that my doctor group we’ve been asked talking a lot about, is that these oils stay in your system for over two years. So let me make sure I understand this, right. If I go, like, I’ll just be transparent. One of my favorite foods on the planet are sweet potato fries. And so if I go out and eat sweet potato fries, and they’re putting it in a vegetable oil that is high in this linoleic acid, that’s not exiting my body for two years, one round of French fries.

Jeff Nobbs
Yeah, yeah, unfortunately. And you know, that’s not the case with something like sugar or flour, for example, you know, maybe it gives you an insulin spike, but your liver detoxifies that sugar, and it’s out of your system in a matter of hours or days. Yeah, when oleic acid, the fatty acid cottonseed oils, it stays in there for a long time. And it’s different depending on which cell in your body we’re talking about. So whether it’s your your brain cells, or or, you know, on the other end of the spectrum, cartilage cells and cartilage cells, it can be even longer than that measured in decades. And in skin cells, for example, it can be shorter than that, I think for like, months because those recycle a lot quicker. But yeah, it can, it can stand it can, it can stay in your cells for years. And because it’s such an unstable fat, it oxidizes quite easily because of the number of double bonds, which is why it’s called polyunsaturated, multiple double bonds versus mono unsaturated, which is one double bond or saturated, which is no double bonds, the more double bonds that easily the more easily oxidizes, the more easily oxidizes, the more it breaks down into harmful compounds, literally toxins, you know, toxicologists defined to toxins not like in you know, the modern form of toxin, everything’s a toxin, but actually something that is acutely toxic in high enough doses and and chronically toxic and low doses. And so all through our bodies of our cells are made of these, these lipids that are, you know, the oxidized quite easily. And then we create, it’s like having firecrackers all throughout our body. And, and that seems to be the start of a lot of disease states.

Dr. Mindy
So you’ve just so we catch people up on certain terminology, can you explain what oxygen oxidized means or oxidation so that we can understand what that means to us? And in our health? Yeah.

Jeff Nobbs
Good point. So oxidation, you know, most people, it’s one of those terms. Many people have heard of, like free radicals. But what it actually is, you know, you see, you see an iron gate rusting, that’s a form of oxidation. It’s, it’s when a molecule loses an electron, and that electron then becomes a free radical. And so you know, that’s a term most of you have heard free radicals as a result of oxidation, which is losing electron and A lot of people have also heard of antioxidants. Antioxidants are molecules that bind with that free radical, and basically deactivate it. So it’s no longer causing oxidative stress. When we have more free radicals than antioxidants to consume them, we are increasing our levels of oxidative stress. And oxidative stress seems to you know, is at the root of inflammation and a number of diseases, aging and it’s part of the reason cigarette smoking is so bad, radiation can be so problematic. And and why seed oils can be so problematic as well.

Dr. Mindy
So from a simplistic standpoint, we can look at these oils as rusting or the inside of our of our body, which is going to accelerate aging, is that would that be accurate?

Jeff Nobbs
Yep. And you can look at you know, you can look at livers of healthy patients. And you can look at livers of, you know, alcoholics who consumed a lot of fried food. And yeah, one looks like a new Iron Gate, and one looks like an old rusty iron gate. Interestingly, in certain lab studies, they’re actually unable to induce certain liver diseases without adding seed oils to the diet, even with alcohol alone, they’re not able to induce alcoholic fatty liver disease. So seed oils do seem to be a lead domino in a lot of these cases.

Dr. Mindy
And so the other part of my brain goes, because I do love sweet potato fries. And I do. Yeah, and I do make them at home. And I’ve made them with your oil. So we can chat about that. But if it’s if it oxidizes, let’s say I go out to dinner. And I’m like, Okay, I have in my sweet potato fries. If I know that oxidation is going to happen from eating that food, could I just increase my antioxidants around that meal to help with the free radicals that are being spun off from from the linoleic acid, it

Jeff Nobbs
helps to some extent, but it doesn’t completely prevent the problem from happening. And it would only help prevent oxidation in in the short term. You know, your body metabolizes those antioxidants pretty quickly. So most seed oils in their unrefined form, you know, it’s not like they make extra virgin soybean oil. But if they did, that would come with some tocopherol, some natural antioxidants that would help prevent some of that oxidation. But you’re still left with a lot of linoleic acid that, again, is staying in your cells for years long after the antioxidants have have already gone through your system. So you can’t hurt that’s for sure. You know, but this this has been researched your research have asked the same question. And it’s the reason why like Mega dosing Vitamin E every day doesn’t seem to have any sort of positive impact on our health. You know, if only that would be great, but it doesn’t seem to be the case.

Dr. Mindy
Yeah, I feel like somebody needs to come up with a supplement or something that helps counteract this because it’s such an it’s such a problem when you’re eating out. And I can tell you something we’ve done and in my group of doctors when we go out to eat, we always ask what oils they’re cooking with, and and many times to get their attention. We just say we’re allergic to canola oil. Can you tell us what you’re cooking with? Because they because restaurants tend to understand food allergies, but they don’t tend to look at oils as being something that would contribute to poor health. So can you talk about what oils are the worst? And I specifically want to talk about canola oil, because I don’t know if you saw recently, there was some news that came out that was pro canola, canola oil, saying that we got it all wrong. So talk about which oils we need to avoid, which are the worst and what do we need to know about canola oil?

Jeff Nobbs
We got it all wrong. Yeah, it’s like we got it all wrong. And then we thought we got it wrong. And then we got it all wrong. Again, you know, I’ve lost track of where or where it’s like mainstream stamp on us.

Dr. Mindy
It’s so confusing to the layperson who’s just trying to stay healthy like this. This is what like makes me irate. Like, I just want to go into a restaurant and not have cellular inflammation have happened to me, I want to be able to navigate a menu. I can do that with gluten free I can do that with no like avoiding sugars. I can do that with most everything but it’s really hard to do with oils. So it’s very frustrating. We’re

Jeff Nobbs
working on that. And I share I share in that frustration and it’s a big part of why I spend most of my waking hours thinking about this problem. Because we have started to see movement and you know, gluten free you know, it’s you can avoid desserts and you’re probably not getting a huge you know, huge sugar spike. Um you can ask the the waitstaff, you know, what can I eat, it doesn’t have sugar in it. But you still get a lot of eyebrow raises. When you say something like, can you make sure to seed oil free meal. And even when they say it’s olive oil, you know, what I found is most of the time it’s an olive oil blend that’s 80 or 90%. Canola oil more favorite. So yeah, it’s really hard to avoid. And, you know, my dream and our dream is zero acre is that even if you don’t listen to health podcasts, you know, and you’re not reading up on nutrition, that you can just go to a restaurant and eat your regular potato fries, or sweet potato fries. And it’s yeah, it’s not going to be doing so much harm. So hopefully, we’ll get there some someday, I don’t know how long it will take. But that’s definitely that’s definitely my dream. So

Dr. Mindy
I’m cheering you on, by the way. Go do that. I’m working over here. I’m just getting the world faster. And you work on getting the getting the right oils into my restaurants.

Jeff Nobbs
It’s a it’s a multipronged effort. You know, we I think we need to attack these problems from all angles from just consumer education, to you know, consumer kind of activation and enabling people to do this easier. And regulatory, you know, bottoms up and top down. You know, we need to do as much as we can. But yeah, with canola, soy, Canola is a weird one. There are oils like soybean oil, safflower, sunflower, corn oil, cottonseed oil, where it’s, it’s really hard to argue for any benefit from those oils, you know, they’re 50 to 75% Omega six linoleic acid, with very small amounts if if, and for some zero amounts of Omega three, which is what’s typically found in like fish, for example, salmon coldwater fish, like the good cousin of omega six. But with with canola oil, it’s both lower in Omega six linoleic acid, then those other seed oils, and hot fairly high in Omega three alpha linolenic acid. It’s the less bioavailable form that omega three plant form than like DHA and EPA found in fish. And it needs to be converted to those more bioavailable forms, like EPA, DHA, EPA, in particular first, before it can do any good in our body. So it’s a precursor to the good stuff. And studies show that only eight to 10% of ALA alpha linolenic acid, which is the Omega three from canola, only about eight to 10% is actually converted into the bioavailable form of EPA. So you know, the percentage of omega threes and canola oil which are something like five to 10%, you know, not not bad. Take that with a grain of salt, because divide that by 10. And that’s how much you’re you know, you’re at, you’re actually getting if you want to compare it to like a fish oil or something or a piece of salmon or sardines. And then on the Omega six side, canola oil is 21%, Omega six, something like that. So significantly less than something like a soybean oil, but you know, significantly more than something like coconut oil, or, you know, spinach or beef or something like that. That’s, like 2%. Right? So, so not as bad in my opinion as something like a soybean oil, but not going to be doing you any favors. And if you’re relying on canola oil as your source of omega three fats are probably in trouble. And especially if you cook with canola oil, which is often how it’s used. You don’t want omega threes in there either because they’re unprotected in this refined oil, and they’re oxidizing into their own problematic compounds, just like the Omega six fats are.

Dr. Mindy
So is the the recent relook at canola oil, are we are is, are we, I haven’t fully immersed myself in all the new studies or the new trend on canola oil. But what I just heard you say is that the if they say it’s pro Omega three, this is why we love canola oil. What I hear you saying is the version of omega threes and canola oil is not bioavailable. And if they say, well, can oil, canola oil isn’t bad because the Omega six content is lower than the other oils. What I hear you saying is that still those Omega six are bad inflammatory Omega six versions is that would that be accurate?

Jeff Nobbs
Yep. I think that’s a good summary. It’s still on that last point, and still has about 10 times too much Omega six, but hey, at least it’s not 30 times too much. Right?

Dr. Mindy
Right. Do we have examples of good Omega six oils because because the other interesting thing that I’ve discovered in my research, is that it’s really the balance of Omega three, six, and nine. That is the most perfect scenario for a human cell. So it’s not like Omega six oil is the enemy. It’s that the type of Omega six that we are eating is really bad. Do we have any examples of good Omega sixes?

Jeff Nobbs
Yeah. So omega six is there a lot of categories of fats, right of lipids. And so you know, parent category, I guess of polyunsaturated fat. And then within polyunsaturated fat, you have omega threes and Omega sixes, again, Omega three and fish. Omega six is typically in seeds and nuts, but in all foods, very small amounts. And then, within Omega sixes, you have different types like linoleic acid, which you know, we’ve talked about, as well as arachidonic acid. And arachidonic acid is a type of omega six that does not appear to be harmful and is not, we’re not consuming and evolutionarily unprecedented amounts. There’s no food we eat where it’s like, well, we used to have 2% of our diet, as you know, a rapid onic acid, and now it’s 70%. So yeah, arachidonic acid also stays. So linoleic acid can be converted to arachidonic acid in our bodies. But no matter how much linoleic acid we eat, it seems that the amount of arachidonic acid in our bodies stays pretty stable. So arachidonic acid, while in Omega six fat doesn’t appear to be all that problematic, okay, and it’s really the linoleic acid has, when consumed in excess, you know, it’s not an inherently evil fat or something like that. But when we consume it in excess, that’s what leads to issues. And it helps to offset that excess linoleic acid consumption, if, you know, maybe it’s sweet potato fries at a restaurant every night or twice a day or something like that. It helps to offset that with sardines, salmon, you know, omega threes from vegan algae, you know, if you don’t eat seafood, that can be helpful. But I think there is a limit, for example, if you’re eating fried food at every meal, you know, you can’t just say it’s okay, I’m gonna have salmon, so it’ll be okay. One, you’d have to have salmon at every meal as well, which is just not realistic. But, but also, you would just then be eating so much polyunsaturated fat, you know, even if you’re helping the cause with some omega threes, just the absolute volume of linoleic acid you’re consuming. You can’t you can’t offset all of it, it’s still in your cells, you would then be reducing your ability to utilize those omega three fats with all that went away UK acid. So it’s really about minimizing linoleic acid so that you’re, you can eat salmon a couple of times a week and not have to eat it.

Dr. Mindy
Yeah, I actually have a theory that I’ve heard a lot of the experts talk about this balance of Omega three, six, and nine. And, you know, fish oils have taken over the world, everybody wants to make a dose on fish oil to lower inflammation down. And I think if you’re eating the standard American or the Western diet, because we have a worldwide audience here, that if you’re eating a diet high in these linoleic acids, when you take an Omega three fish oil, it will make you feel better, because you are counterbalancing, the inflammation that’s happening from the Omega six, you’re just bringing that 369 back into balance. But those of us that are eating the right oils, we’re making sure that we’re staying in the healthy oil lane. If we come in and make a dose with Omega three, we actually can create inflammation, because we’ve thrown that omega 369 balance off. And I don’t believe that the goal of health is that we need to make a dose supplements all the time. I feel like the foundation of health needs to start with good nutrition. So if I if I move into the lane of hey, I’m going to dedicate my health habits to minimizing these toxic Omega sixes, then do you feel like maybe we wouldn’t need to focus on omega threes as much because just bringing down that inflammatory Omega six will help bring that whole balance back.

Jeff Nobbs
I completely agree. I think in the context of most people’s diets, it’s really important to get more omega threes, you probably can’t get enough. There’s a whole separate issue of like oxidized fish oil and sitting in capsules for years and sometimes doing more harm than good. But yeah, if you know if you’re eating a ton of fried food, get more omega threes. If you are in the healthy oil and as you say, then just the Omega threes from I don’t know if the grass fed beef you eat or the pastured eggs that you eat. That’s probably enough, you know, the occasional salmon or something wouldn’t be an issue that’d be great. But But yeah, you don’t you don’t need to stress about the daily Omega three supplementation and making sure you eat salmon five times a week and all that if you’re cutting out the seed oils,

Dr. Mindy
yeah, yeah, I mean, this is like one of the I remember I was in Costco one day, and I saw this guy he had like 10 bottles of omega Three fish oils, and it like it must have been a sale or something. But like my brain was like, yeah, if he’s eating the wrong oils, those bottles are going to be great for him. But or possibly, I don’t know what the quality of those supplements were, but then my brain was like, but if he’s got it, he’s not eating the bad oils, that actually those 10 bottles are going to inflame his system. And I think this is one of the big myths of of the Omega three movement. I mean, we got obsessed with Omega three oils. But when we just come back to how do we do this with proper diet, then we don’t need to spend all this money on all these other Omega three supplements, we can do it through diet. So talk talk a little bit about what are the good oils, what are we and specifically zero acre, you you guys sent me a bottle, and I gotta tell you, it is so smooth. Like it has a smooth taste. It cooks really well. And I just it i It’s really exciting. But what is an in that is what I still am trying to understand. And why did you put those oils together?

Jeff Nobbs
Yeah, absolutely. And just to your first point. No, I totally agree. And sometimes I think about health, most of the focus on health is like what’s the next superfood we can eat or something so that I can still have my doughnuts. But so much of a healthy diet is the stuff we take out. And you know, like they’re just a few it’s not like there’s a list of 1000 things. It’s like, ditch the seed oils, refined sugars and flours and you’re like 80% plus of the way there. And then yeah, some, you know, some intermittent fasting and being smart about our immune system, getting sunlight and and then just eating nutrient dense foods, you know, being biased toward nutrient dense foods, and you’re probably like, 98% of the way there. So so totally agree on that point. And, yeah, so what are the good oils? This was something I set out to answer many years ago, probably a decade ago, and pretty quickly realized, you know, okay, clearly, there’s some bad oils, you know, the seed oils that we’ve talked about. The other variable I introduced to this question is, what are the oils that are good for me, and that are good for the planet. And you know, more people have started to care about the environmental impact of the foods that they eat, you know, not just climate change, but impact on deforestation and water use. And they can develop, I don’t know, if you’re in California, how many almonds you eat or something like that, it’s starting to be more top of mind. And clearly the oils from fruits, the vegetable oils from fruit. So broadly, vegetable oils are seed oils, which we talked about, and then oils from fruits like avocado, olive, coconut palm, those are unquestionably better from a health standpoint, they, you know, they have far lower amounts of omega six coconut oil in particular, you know, like one or 2%. And then avocado oil, olive oil, very variable depends on where they were growing when they were growing, sometimes as low as single digit, you know, 910 11 12%, sometimes as high as 21% 27%, for some varietals of olive oil. Some have more than canola oil, unfortunately. But But again, on average better than better than seed oils. And so when I was kind of first starting this journey of trying to get seed oils out of the food system, you know, I looked at evangelizing avocado oil, olive oil, you know, trying to trying to raise the levels of awareness of these oils, there a few issues. One, it’s really hard to get past the adulteration piece, because they’re more premium oils. And because they’re there, when they’re purchased by consumers, it’s mainly just for being olive oil, or avocado, not a specific brand to stand behind it. There are a lot of issues with rancidity and adulteration. And there’s just not enough land to produce all of an avocado oil, they only grow in certain regions of the world. You know, it’s not like we have all this cropland available to grow them. And they require a huge amount of water in particular. And so there have been some recent droughts in Spain that has essentially destroyed their all oil production, and they’re not sure they’re going to do and prices are going to increase. So they have a really big environmental footprint. So for those reasons, I was like, okay, that’s probably not what’s gonna win today, you know, getting soybean oil out of our student food system. 420 billion pounds a year of vegetable oils, like like soy. And, and then for cooking, they’re still not the most stable oils, they’re more stable than something like a soybean oil or canola oil. They know that they like all of our particular catalysts. MapPoint so I wish those could be the answers. I mean, just certainly make my life a lot easier. But a number of years ago, realized that they weren’t and so started a company called Zero Acre Farms. And we’re making a cultured oil and this cultured oil that that we’re now selling is about 2% linoleic acid. So similar to something like a beef tallow or coconut oil, and then high levels of the Omega nine fats that you mentioned monounsaturated fat So even more than all of her or avocado oil, high smoke point, extremely low environmental footprint. And the way that this oil is made is by fermentation. And so what that means is a microbial culture, not one that would, you know, go on to make a yogurt, like we were talking about before the show, or you know, wine or beer or sauerkraut, but on microbial culture, which is a bunch of single cell organisms, microorganisms, that literally makes oil, they’re fed sugar. And that sugar currently comes from sugarcane. And just like humans, when we eat a bunch of sugar, you know, we put on a bunch of fat on a microbial level, each cell in this culture, consume sugar, and stores their energy as oil. And then that culture, the cells are pressed like pressing oil from olives. And what comes out the other end is cultured oil. And these microbes are incredible, you know, they naturally make oil. They’re called oleaginous organisms in the wild. And that’s where they that’s where they came from. And the oil they produce, because of how it’s produced is an extremely low environmental footprint. And then what it actually is, is a is high levels of the good fats and low levels of bad fats.

Dr. Mindy
So I had no idea. That’s how that was what cultured oil was. That’s, that’s I don’t know how you figured that technology out. But impressive. So my thought is that then, if it is fermented, and microbes, it was a byproduct of the oils were a byproduct of these microbes, that it has to be insanely good for your gut bacteria is that it couldn’t heal the gut, this type of oil,

Jeff Nobbs
the microbes are actually inactivated when they’re pressed. So it’s not it’s no longer a live culture when consumed. You know, when putting the bottle it’s the oil that depressed from that live culture. So the benefits to the gut would be that, you know, it’s a healthy fat profile. But it’s not, it’s not, you know, it’s not adding microbial diversity, for example.

Dr. Mindy
So and then talk a little bit about that. I really want to highlight you said, Megan nines, when it’s high in Omega nine, you know, it’s interesting, because I feel like Omega nine doesn’t get much discussion. What what are the benefits of Omega nine.

Jeff Nobbs
This is what’s hard about the world of lipids. There’s so much nomenclature, you know, for this one type of fat, it can be called mono unsaturated fat, it could be called omega nine fats, it can be called oleic acid, which is confusing because that sounds just like linoleic acid and one’s really good and one’s really bad when consumed in excess. So, you know, at the risk of throwing a bunch of words around that no one’s going to remember, Omega nine is, is primarily oleic acid, which is a type of mono unsaturated fat. And, you know, whether you’re vegan or carnivore, mono unsaturated fats are typically seen as very healthy. Every other type of fat is basically super controversial. But yeah, olive oil is extremely high 7070 ish percent monounsaturated fat, upwards of 81%. beef tallow is almost half mono unsaturated fat, same with lard. So even animal fats are quite high monounsaturated fat. It’s the majority of fat in many things, except seed oils. And so that’s the fact that cultured oil is is quite high. And what’s also nice about monounsaturated fat is that it’s liquid. So it’s liquid at room temperature, it’s liquid in the fridge. oils that are high in mono unsaturated fat. Typically, you can make a salad dressing, it stays liquid in the fridge, you can just you can spray it. So it’s a bit easier to work with than something like lard or butter.

Dr. Mindy
Right. And so the cultured oil, the zero acres is that is high in Omega nines is what I hear you saying.

Jeff Nobbs
Yep, between 90 and 95% of mono unsaturated fats, this type of omega nine fat, and then 4% or less saturated fats. And then 3% or less linoleic acid, this omega six fat.

Dr. Mindy
Do we have any other oil out there that has that same fatty acid configuration?

Jeff Nobbs
The closest would be something like an avocado or olive. Okay, but it doesn’t have quite as much more on saturated fat. It has more omega six linoleic acid. And so and part of the reason, you know, it’s important to have even less, and we wanted to put numbers to this. And so we had a third party run an experiment of heating a bunch of different types of oils and then measuring those those toxins that are generated as a as a result of oxidation. aldehyde aldehydes in particular, is, you know, just to throw another term out there aldehydes

Dr. Mindy
it’s a chemistry class we’re in right now.

Jeff Nobbs
Share the whiteboard that aldehydes like formaldehyde is probably when people have heard of their found in cigarettes, they’re, you know, objectively known as toxins in many cases. And so we measured the aldehydes produced from polyunsaturated fats and use different oils. And and you can clearly see the oils that have less linoleic acid are producing fewer of these aldehydes. And those aldehydes have been tied to a number of health issues. By far the worst are, I think it was corn oil, soybean oil, sunflower oil and rapeseed oil or canola far, far more aldehyde generation even after, you know, 1020 30 minutes. And then the other other end of the spectrum, which we’re pleased to see was cultured oil producing very few and actually producing zero after 10 minutes. And then the middle were all of an avocado oil is as we’d expect. So that’s why it’s important to minimize linoleic acid. One, because you’re already getting so much when you when you go out and have the sweet potato fries, not to keep picking on you

Dr. Mindy
calling myself out on my biggest. It’s like like, yeah,

Jeff Nobbs
yeah, no, I mean, I don’t blame me, especially little ketchup solutions. Yeah. But so it’s important to minimize it. Because you know, we’re not all like, we’re not perfect. We’re human beings, we want to go out and have fun and have chips and salsa and all that. And so when we can control it, we should absolutely minimize the amount of omega six linoleic acid. And then also by doing so when you actually heat it, whether you know, you’re scrambling eggs, you’re doing a stir fry, or eventually, you know, we hope to be in restaurants, when you’re eating out fried food in a restaurant, you’re minimizing those toxins that are generated from heating oil.

Dr. Mindy
And so talk a little bit about the cooking of the oil, because I think that’s also really important. And I and I do want to point out to the people listening that if this is confusing, it is confusing. And this is, this is what we’re trying to make simple. So what I want to do is when we think about moving out to restaurants, we have one strategy, when we look at what we want to bring into our house, that’s oils that were not heating up, we have another strategies. And then there’s a different strategy for oils when we actually cook with them. So can you talk about how heating oil up changes the configuration of it and can turn a good oil into a bad oil?

Jeff Nobbs
Yeah, yeah. And to your point on it being complicated, you know, that’s why I think the saturated fat will clog your arteries. Idea stuck for so long, is because it’s so simple, you know, oh, yeah, I pour bacon grease down a cold pipe. And it’s going to solidify. And that’s what’s happening in my arteries. And, you know, when you look at plaque in arteries, it looks like saturated fat. So it was it was it was too simple. But it was, it was too compelling not to not to stick for for many, many decades. And everything we’ve talked about, it’s it’s pretty deep in the in the chemistry and in the weeds. But sometimes, you know, that’s what’s required to really get to the heart of the issue. And yeah, so when you cook without, you know, taking a step back and zooming out a little bit from the chemistry, when you cook, you’re just you’re accelerating the breakdown of these unstable fats into other more harmful things, which is that process of oxidation that we talked about earlier. So there are a few things that will accelerate that oxidation and cause seed oils to become even more problematic. One is heat, which is why heating, deep fried food tends to be so bad is because it’s not just that oil isn’t being fried or heated for five minutes, 10 minutes, 30 minutes, it’s being heated for days. And so it’s, you know, it’s off the charts. So that’s what my dream is, if we could replace that deep fried oil with a more stable fat, you know, I think you’d literally see an impact on chronic disease rates. So, so it’s gonna take a while though, and then the other outside of here is oxygen. So if you could somehow like live in a vacuum and store your oil in a vacuum, then you would you would reduce or actually potentially been completely eliminate, minimize oxidation. But that’s not going to happen. Light is another so when you see the super cheap, big bottles of vegetable oil and like a clear plastic sitting on the shelf at supermarkets, that’s a big red flag. Flora fluorescent light has been shown to potentially even be more problematic from an oxidation oxidation standpoint than UV light. So sitting on a supermarket shelf could it could oxidize faster than even if we’re sitting in the sun. And, you know, supermarkets they don’t, they don’t turn the lights off light lights out for 10 hours a day. Those lights are always on. And so you know just sitting there oxidizing. Yeah, like glass, dark glass is better. And then the Best would be something like a 10 or an aluminum where it completely blocks out the UV light. Even even those dark green or dark brown glass bottles that still let some UV light in it just lets less than that, if it were clear plastic, so yeah, he light and oxygen are the big three, and breaks down when when oils that are unsafe or exposed to those things, they break down and become much worse.

Dr. Mindy
So if I have all of those, if I have to choose between olive oil or avocado oil to cook with, let’s assume that I got them in a dark glass bottle, what’s Is there a one that’s going to be better for me to cook with and another.

Jeff Nobbs
So if it’s low heat cooking, then I think an extra virgin olive oil, especially if you want the flavor of olive oil in your food is is fine. Once you start turning up the heat a little bit more, I switched to the avocado oil, if those are my two choices, because it has a higher smoke point, it’s not going to smoke up your kitchen, it’s not going to those compounds in the oil aren’t aren’t going to break down into potentially carcinogenic compounds. And, and in some dishes like I don’t know, an Asian stir fry or something, you might just want more of a neutral oil than then all of flavor. If I were making a salad and making a dressing, I would definitely go for the olive oil over the avocado oil because I want a little bit of that flavor. And you’re not risking, you know, any breakdown from from from heating. In the tests that we did. When we when we heated for you know, 1020 3090 minutes, the olive oil and avocado oil were both pretty close. You know, it’s not like one was off the charts and one wasn’t. Avocado oil tends to have a bit more went away ik acid. So, you know, I tend to go more for olive oil just because I’m trying to minimize Omega six linoleic acid. But But I mean, you know, between those two of us and that sort of, instead of like Mazola corn oil or something like that. You’re certainly making a huge improvement.

Dr. Mindy
Where does grass fed butter fit into that I cook with grass fed butter a lot?

Jeff Nobbs
Yeah, butter is very low and Omega six linoleic acid. So it’s, we did not include, I can’t remember if we hadn’t butter in our tests, I don’t think we did. But butter, hypothetically would would also be very stable. It doesn’t have a high smoke point. So again, if you know if you’re doing a stir fried, it’s not the right. cooking fat and it’s gonna it’s gonna break down. But yeah, just scrambling some eggs or something like that on low heat. In butters. Delicious. Yeah, a lot of people don’t do well with dairy for whatever reason. But But yeah, but butter is much lower and Omega six fats like 345 percent.

Dr. Mindy
Yeah, that’s what we do at the restaurant. When we say when we were like we’re allergic to canola oil. We have them to do grass if they have if it’s a high end and they have grass fed butter, or we just have them do butter because it feels like it’s one step lower in the inflammatory capabilities of an oil. So what do you think of that? Is that a good? I mean, what else can you do until your oils get in every restaurant would better be a better choice to have them cook with?

Jeff Nobbs
I’ll tell you a story. I used to live across the street from an Indian food restaurant that was delicious, but they cooked everything in soybean oil. So I asked them if they had any other oils or fats in their kitchen and they said butter, butter and Indian food a little weird, but let’s go for it. So I ordered from this place every week. And I thought this whole time they’re cooking my food and butter after years of this turns out that their butter I’m putting in air quotes is actually a big tub of margarine. The kitchen was tragic one of the worst days of my life. And you just gotta be careful.

Dr. Mindy
This is why it’s so messed up like you’re trying to make a good lateral change but then you had to ask is it butter or is it margarine?

Jeff Nobbs
Yeah, I should have asked that on day one. But I was I you know, looking back I probably would have just rather had the soybean oil. Margarine tends to behind trans fats as well, which is a whole whole different can of worms. But But yeah, you know, if I go out to like, for brunch or something, those places typically have butter unless it’s Denny’s, which I learned the hard way literally doesn’t carry butter. They only have margarine Denny’s. But yeah, usually butter would be a better better in terms of minimizing Omega six then something like a soybean oil. Definitely.

Dr. Mindy
So talk a little bit about now that we have it this is the thing about oils that I hope everybody’s grabbing this is that it’s so complicated, but it is the number one nutritional change you have to make, especially in the category of metabolic health. So I literally when I hear people say that they’ve struggled too fast. The very first next question I asked is tell me what your oil content is what it what are you doing with oils? And as hopefully people can see, it’s so complicated. I love your mission to get your oil and every restaurant, how the heck are you going to do that?

Jeff Nobbs
Well, we’re still work on that strategy. But I think I think there are a few ways. One is, and this is the reason we focus so much on education, and it has nothing to do with our products. If enough people see seed oils for what they are, and see them as the next, you know, trans fats or tobacco smoking or, you know, high fructose corn syrup, the more they’re that price doesn’t become part of the equation, at the end of the day, why McDonald’s and Wendy’s and Burger King and every other restaurant you probably go to is cooking in these oils is because they’re cheap, you know, they’re not particularly tasty, they’re not particularly stable for deep frying. But they’re really cheap. And they’re, you know, they’re not off putting enough to justify getting rid of them. But that said, you know, I don’t I don’t avoid Coca Cola, or not smoke cigarettes, because they’re too expensive. It doesn’t matter how cheap they are, I’m not going to do it. And, and so if enough consumers feel that way, then that will, then restaurants will start to feel that way too. And if they realize that they can actually increase the number of customers that come in their door by ditching the problematic seed oils, then, you know, maybe they will be willing to pay a premium and consider some other options. So that’s the big reason we focus on on education. Also, there are a lot of restaurants out there that do want to do the right thing, but don’t want to be using ingredients that are really harmful for people. But in my conversations with them, they’re also not going to be the first to switch, you know, just because they think it’s the right thing to do. They’re going to do what their consumers and customers demand they do. So the more people like us that are going to restaurants and are, you know, being a little annoying about what kind of Wales they cook with, that ends up making its way to management, you know, in like debrief meetings with the staff, like, yeah, a bunch of customers have been asking, like, why we use canola oil, you know, that makes a difference. It’s not gonna happen overnight. But, you know, it’s one way. And then I think, I think there are regular regulatory opportunities as well. There’s some crazy data out there. For example, in China, the number one cause of lung cancer and non smoking women is cooking with seed oils and inhaling the fumes. And, you know, it’s also bad when we inhale those fumes of that oil that is oxidized. And so there’s some clear wins, if, you know, from a regulatory standpoint, if we can get these out of restaurants, you know, make it make it safer working conditions for, for employees of restaurants. But yeah, at the end of the day, you know, people like you and me and the people listening to us, they gotta care and got to start speaking out.

Dr. Mindy
You know, I, I’ve spent a lot of time thinking about how we can overturn overcome the profit driven big food and Big Pharma. And I too, have come to the conclusion that it has to be one by one by one that the only way we’re going to change this whole food system is by educating each person and letting each person understand what the ramifications the choices they make, at the grocery store, and at the restaurants what that impact is on their health. And so I totally agree like these, these, the big ag is just so I mean, that whole food industry has so much profit in it. It’s really difficult to navigate avoiding them. So you have to educate yourself so you know how to navigate it. If somebody decides to lean into, okay, I’m going to switch like, here’s where my brain goes is like, what if you just switch your home or oil to the zero acre for a month? And that’s all you do? You use the oil to cook with you put on your salads, it’s your primary oil is there, what would somebody have you? Do you have any data or any feedback from people who have completely switched your oil, what they’ve seen with their health,

Jeff Nobbs
only qualitative and we’ve only been on the market for a couple of months. So it’s still still very early. You know, a lot of the benefits are long term and are more chronic. But some of the some of the nice short term benefits are weight loss. We haven’t we haven’t done a clinical trial with zero acre culture oil on weight loss. But high linoleic acid diets have been linked to weight gain, and lower linoleic acid diets in randomised controlled trials have been linked to healthy weight loss. So we would expect that, you know, switching the culture oil from basically any other oil that’s going to be higher and when laic acid, you know, may have some weight loss benefits. Some people have said, you know, they just feel better, you know, they’re more clear headed. seed oils have been tied to a number of autoimmune issues. So maybe there would be a diminishment of that. We want to do that. more analysis and you know, actually run studies on this, but we haven’t done them yet.

Dr. Mindy
You know, at I, my reset Academy, we’ve got 1000s of women in there, and there would be a really good sample, I’m gonna go to them and say, Okay, how many of you are willing to just completely switch your oil to zero acre for a month, and that group is looking at their blood sugar, their fasting, they’re focused on being fat adapted, losing weight, good brain health. So I’m gonna do my own little study for you. And I’m gonna get back to you on that. Because I feel like, again, you know, we, if you look at the how much it costs to run a research study, it’s, it’s, it’s too high for I mean, maybe a company like yours can eventually do it. But it’s so expensive. So why don’t we just do our own self study. And I would encourage the listeners do the same thing. Just try swapping out the oil for a month and look at your blood sugar numbers, see how much easier you can fast look at what your brain health is doing. I really think that could be powerful if we start to empower people one by one to just try a 30 day challenge and see what you notice. Have you had anybody, like look at blood sugar or ketones, when they do something like that?

Jeff Nobbs
If they have, they haven’t reported them to us. We’re talking about doing a seed oil free challenge for a month, you know, haven’t haven’t put concrete plans to that. So maybe we can put our heads together on that. And, yeah, let us know how we can help. You know, talking to an audience that knows about fat, becoming fat adapted, and you know, fasting and using ketosis as a tool. One of the things that I always like to like put an asterisks on is when thinking about healthy, high fat, low carb diet, that type of fat really matters. So the I think, like a big takeaway from this conversation should be high fat, low carb, being in ketosis, you know, fasting, make, like the fat matters, you know, make sure you’re ditching those high linoleic seed oils. And interestingly, when our body when we want to become fat adapted, we want to be able to effortlessly skip a meal and not have all those like crazy hunger signals, and have our body just you know, cleave off a little bit of body fat for energy. But when that body fat is made of, you know, toxins, and when that body fat has made a very unstable fatty acids, our bodies are smart. They don’t really they’re not as they don’t want to cleave it off as readily if it’s going to lead to a bunch of toxin generation. And if it’s unstable fats, so the more you can load up your, your fat cells, you know, everyone has stores body fat, even the thinnest of us, if you can load up those fat cells with healthy fats, then your body may just be a little bit more ready to use that stored body fat as energy.

Dr. Mindy
Oh, I love that. So weight loss resistance. That’s what I just heard, because that’s the whole. That’s the whole point of a big point. Part of fasting is we’re tapping into the energy system that burns energy from fat. And when a lot of people can’t get into ketosis, what I just heard what you just said, is it could be because their body’s just soaking in these bad fats. So it would it is it is it probable we could add the good fats in and do this 30 Day Challenge? And that fat is now more accessible to burn? Is that what I just heard you say?

Jeff Nobbs
Yeah, and I would be very curious to hear from people who, you know, the only thing they change, they don’t change any of their macros. They’re eating the same amount of fat. The only thing that changed is the type of fat I’d be super curious to hear from people how they feel after a month of that.

Dr. Mindy
Oh my gosh, okay, so those of you listening if you do that, please let us know. And Jeff, I’m gonna I’m gonna bring this to my Academy members. And we’ll we’ll let you know. I just think I think it’s, you’re on to some really cool tool here. So and, and I’m just so grateful for the way that your brain went about creating this is amazing. And those of you that are listening, Jeff is giving you all free shipping. So if you just go down into the notes and use my last name Pels, you’ll get free shipping on on your first order of zero acre. And I can tell you two things I love about it, Jeff. One is the bottle is really pretty. And so it just looks clean. And it’s I always have my oils out on my countertop. So I liked the way it looks. And now I realized that because it’s in tin, you’re not getting the light’s not going to affect it. Is that

Jeff Nobbs
Yeah, we use aluminum. But yeah, same benefit there. Yep. Okay,

Dr. Mindy
cool. So and I really liked the taste of it. I’ve been i One of the things I’d love to do is make my own salad dressings. And it has a different taste to it. And so I’ve had to experiment with the things I put with it for salad dressing, and I find that it can like one of my favorite things is to put a Meyer lemon in a sour salad dressing because we have a tree and it really highlights the Meyer lemon flavor. I’m not sure if that’s just because it’s got such a smooth, clean taste. But it definitely is a different taste profile. Have you have you had people report that back?

Jeff Nobbs
Yeah, they’re very similar feedback, you know whether it’s in salad dressings or food. Actually, a lot of people that use it to cook eggs will say, I can actually taste the eggs. My eggs don’t. I mean, I still love eggs and butter. But my eggs I’m not, I’m not having, you know, eggs that tastes like butter or eggs that tastes like olives. I think exit tastes like eggs. And they really appreciate that. What I personally do when I make salad dressings is it actually do a mix of extra virgin olive oil and cultured oil. And I get a little bit of that flavor of the olive oil. But when you mix it with cultured oil actually stays liquid in the fridge, and it doesn’t sort of like congeal and solidify the way olive oil dressings do. And then you get a little bit of more flavor pop from the acids like lemon or vinegar in there.

Dr. Mindy
Should I be keeping my culture oil in the refrigerator? Is that the best place to store it?

Jeff Nobbs
You there’s no need to because it’s so stable. And we actually add extra antioxidants in there just to be safe. But yeah, any oil that you add to the fridge it would it would improve the shelf life. And it would reduce any oxidation that is happening. So it certainly can’t hurt. And you wouldn’t be able to do that with olive oil or avocado oil because it would start to solidify and you can’t pour it out. But yeah, if you wanted to store your culture oil in the fridge, it would stay liquid and it would it would prevent any oxidation or it would significantly reduce the oxidation that’s happening. Yeah,

Dr. Mindy
so cool. So cool. Well, this was been a great discussion, I have one last question for you. And here’s what’s really fun is that this is coming out in our fourth season. And every season, I have a different theme. And I kind of base the theme based off of what I’m seeing is happening in the world. So like this year, or this past year, it’s been gratitude because we’re all we’re in this state of complaining over the pandemic and politics and things like that. So but But what season four is about is self love. So here’s my questions for you is what makes you unique, you as a person? And what are your three superpowers, and you’re allowed to brag about yourself? Oh, I’m

Jeff Nobbs
not used to doing that. I know this makes me unique. You know, when I tell people I have dark chocolate every morning, they their exact words aren’t that’s unique, but it’s something along those lines. I just really love dark chocolate and I can’t make it past morning. So that’s probably a little unique. There’s been a lot more talk of CEOs recently, obviously, I mean, this is Top of Mind, since we just talked about this for the last hour. I’ve been avoiding them for over a decade. I I was like the weird guy who would go to restaurants with my friends and either bring a little thing of avocado oil, or like grill the waiter on on the types of oils they used and embarrass my friends in the process. And so, you know, in my early 20s, that wasn’t a cool thing to do. And it was certainly unique. And you know, I’m glad I did it now. Let’s see.

Dr. Mindy
So you’re a catalyst? That’s what I’m gonna say is what are your superpowers? Is your your a catalyst? Because in that if you go with your friends, you know, you’re opening up a conversation that they may not even be aware of.

Jeff Nobbs
Yeah, I wish my friends that led to a conversation about healthy fats. But yeah, again, early 20s. So yeah. I mean, being an entrepreneur is unique. And it’s probably makes me a little crazy. It’s not easy. But when I see problems that aren’t being solved, or problems that are affecting me and my life, and no one is solving them, I just feel compelled to do something about it. And so

Dr. Mindy
that’s a superpower. I was gonna say that the way you think I mean, just in what I heard today. And we really need I mean, especially in healthcare right now we need people to think outside the box. You know, I’ve I’ve sat with a lot of experts of all different backgrounds. And the general consensus is that human health is really on a trajectory where we could move into extinction. And if we don’t do something now about our health, this our species will not survive. And when you break that down and you go into nutrition, the number one thing needs to be this oil change. So I’m going to give you the superpower Have you thought outside the box to create this culture oil. So and I agree as an entrepreneur, you definitely have to think different. You definitely need a new pattern of thought that will change the world. So that’s the superpower. I give you a jet fighter.

Jeff Nobbs
So I chalked it up to naive optimism. Because without that, you know, I, no one would ever start a business and, you know, take on such a big industry as vegetable oils. But yeah, you know, there’s something there that has led to, to thinking we can pull this off. We’ll see how far we get.

Dr. Mindy
Yeah, naive optimism. See, now if you get asked that question again, you could just say, Oh, my superpower is naive optimism. Good, I love that. So thank you so much. And where can people find you? Where can they feel find the oils? And then those of you that are listening know that there is a discount code, and we put it in the show notes. But how else can people find more about this really cool oil product you’ve created?

Jeff Nobbs
We’ve been writing extensively about it on our blog at zero acre.com/blog. I don’t know maybe 1% of the content is about cultured oil and the other 99% is about the issues with seed oils and talking about healthy fats, sustainable fats. But but the product cultured oil is is at zero acre.com Anyone wants to read my meanderings on all things health and nutrition and other aspects of life? It’s at Jeff knobs.com. Just my name. And yeah, like you said, for anyone listening with the code pals, they can get free shipping at zero acre.com On their first order.

Dr. Mindy
Awesome. Well, thank you. And I’m, this won’t be the last you’ve seen or heard of me. Because I’m gonna go. I’m gonna go experiment, do the oil challenge. And I will report back but thank you so much for what you’re doing. And the problem you’re trying to solve is, is ginormous. So we need more people leaving that pack. So thank you so much, Jeff, for being here and everything you’re doing.

Jeff Nobbs
Thank you and right back at you. Thank you for creating this platform for people to talk about things like this and for the books that you’ve written, and the community that you’ve built. It’s when you more people like you as well.

Dr. Mindy
Thank you. Appreciate it.