Breaking The Cycle of Intergenerational Trauma – With Dr. Mariel Buqué

Dr. Mindy
I again, just want to officially welcome you to the resetter podcast. So thank you for being here.

Dr. Mariel Buque
Thank you for having me such a pleasure. Yeah,

Dr. Mindy
and this topic is so massively important. I think, for my audience, one of the things that I’ve seen happen is as we start to clean our body up, and we make better choices, sometimes the emotional stuff and the old patterns and the things that have mentally held us back, like bubbled to the surface and revealed themselves. So I’m so excited to have this discussion with you. And if you what I want to do is start with this idea of breaking the cycle. And the way you say it, I have a feeling it’s there’s multiple layers to this, but the way what you call intergenerational traumas. So can you just start by enlightening us with what does it mean to break the cycle of intergenerational trauma?

Dr. Mariel Buque
That’s a good question to start with.

Dr. Mindy
Do I go deep here on the podcast, I’m not into superficial conversations. So

Dr. Mariel Buque
likewise, I’m loving it. Yeah, you know, breaking the cycle is as layered of a process as is intergenerational trauma, we’re talking about trauma that has penetrated within us in layers, it’s trauma that is both biological and psychosocial. So, you know, it’s situated in our genes. And it is situated in a lot of our social interactions throughout life, social meaning with other people or with systems. And so when we’re talking about intergenerational trauma is operating within those layers. When we express that we are trying to be cycle breakers, we’re doing so in layers as well. So the healing is done in layers. And that means that the healing has to be something that is reflected at the cellular level, it’s something that’s reflected in our social spaces and our relationships. It’s reflected systemically in the ways that we interact with systems and the privileges that we hold and the disk privileges that we hold. And so it becomes a multi layered process. And so it’s important for us to attend to the different ways that we can actually embody healing, when we’re doing intergenerational work, because we can leave one area of healing out of the agenda, we’re just going to basically shift the pain in one direction.

Dr. Mindy
Yeah, how would you know? So, you know, of course, my science brain goes to things like there’s an incredible study out the years ago showing that even the grandchildren of survivors of Auschwitz, and how they can see epigenetic changes that manifested in that lineage for anxiety, because of, you know, a situation the grandparents had, you know, from a clinical level, that’s the way my brain can understand it is like, well, if I have anxiety, and maybe my grandparents had anxiety, maybe it’s a genetic thing is, is that the way you look at it, or is it more evasive than that is a little less, less obvious?

Dr. Mariel Buque
No, actually, you’re right on the money. You know, when we’re talking about the cellular biology, of intergenerational trauma, we’re talking about the ways in which there have been genetic imprints that have that have been within us, you know, like, and those genetic imprints are handed down to us by individuals in our lineage who have suffered a specific trauma, like the trauma of the Holocaust, like the traumas that are collective, the traumas of genocide of slavery, like all of those traumas, are collective traumas that definitely make a vulnerability, a genetic vulnerability within individuals that classify within a specific social group. And then there’s also traumas that don’t necessarily have to do with something that was systemic, although the studies that are the more prominent studies that we have today do have to do with collective traumas. There are also other traumas like domestic disputes that were ongoing in a person’s home, like a person having undergone emotional, verbal and physical abuse and other types of abuse, right, like the full gamut of abuse. And so in that being something that is translated forward at the genetic level, and really what we know about epigenetics is I think sometimes we some people aren’t familiar with that term, or really, what it means is that our genes are basically turning either on or off based on what is happening in our lives. So our genes are saying, oh, okay, the way that I naturally operate is from a place of stress. So if that is my the status quo that is just my general default way of of go worrying about life, that my genes are basically saying to themselves, hey, we have to always be in a state of stress, because that’s the norm here. And when your genes are pre programmed to operate with at that hormonal level, always operating from a place of stress, then that genetic material is being translated forward in the mother’s belly, in utero, and in the parents belly, onto the child. And so now the child is born with an emotional predisposition to stress. And so that transmission just kind of keeps going.

Dr. Mindy
So so it’s almost what I’m hearing is, it’s almost like if mom had I’m just using anxiety as an example, if mom had trauma and anxiety, and that got passed down to you, if you’re experiencing anxiety, if it’s in your genes, you’re going anxiety is actually going to feel physiologically normal to you is, is that what happens? So you don’t even realize you keep creating more anxious situations? Because you’re trying to make your body feel normal? is Do I have that right?

Dr. Mariel Buque
Yeah. And what is normal, right? Like, what is your point? Well, versus like my normal because then if your predisposition has been pre programmed, since they want to be at a high level of stress, and I say stress, because I think stress can be pretty all encompassing, when it comes to trauma, when it comes to anxiety when it comes to all the all the things that flow from stress, the worry, thoughts, all those things. And so when we factor in that an emotional vulnerability is the baseline is basically where we start off from, then that is what a person would have always experienced as normal. It is what their normal is versus someone that had a different genetic base by which to operate.

Dr. Mindy
And how do we tell? And I’m just going to use like, you know, mom, child, kind of concept, how do we know what’s genetic and within us that trauma, and what was just modeled for us, because if mom, you know, had created like quick stress responses, and modeled that for us, we’re also don’t even realize, especially those first seven years of life that we’re imprinting the behaviors of how mom handles stress. So how do we know what was just modeling? And what is actually in our DNA?

Dr. Mariel Buque
Hmm, it’s a great question. You know, to date, we don’t have like clinics where people can go and like get genetic stood out. You know, it would be lovely if we had like some sort of mechanism to actually distinguish the two. Usually, the data that we have comes from the mother themselves, or the grandparent that came before that mother, and the ways in which they handled stress, because then when we start thinking about stress, and we start really attuning to the body, and the ways in which stress is implanted in the body, we get down to the nervous system. And so when we’re talking about the nervous system, and the nervous system always be in a high alert, then we already have some sort of data, we have a mom that’s always on high alert, and was that way prior to the child being born. If if we have that mom operating that way, that’s already our data that there is more likely than not a genetic expression that was formulated around that overactive nervous system that is now a part of that child’s experience. So we have that. But I think there is something really key about your question that I like to highlight, because the the question also helps us to understand the fact that intergenerational trauma isn’t just genetics and just the modeling it is one or the other, but both right. And so yeah, so if a mother has a hyperactive nervous system, and she operates from a place of stress on an ongoing basis, however, she decides to disrupt the trauma responses and trauma behaviors prior to any modeling being present, then we don’t have the other half of the transmission.

Dr. Mindy
And so then, then there’s so if I’m a new mom with a young child, if I’m conscious about how what I’m modeling in old stress responses, I can that would be an A key part to breaking the cycle is mom being aware of her own behavior, so she doesn’t pass that down? Is what I hear. That’s like one of the beginning pieces of breaking that cycle.

Dr. Mariel Buque
Yeah, really key component because a lot of the initial learned behaviors and initial mechanisms of socialized trauma do happen in the home, right. It’s the time Every area where we’re situated socially, where we learn social cues are mirror neurons are floating. And like, it’s all of those things, right. And so if the trauma responses are being disrupted by the parent prior to the other half of intergenerational trauma really taking on, then we have an opportunity for disruption.

Dr. Mindy
And so and then I just want to point out this isn’t, you know, there’s a lot of mommy guilt out there in the world. And there’s also a lot of, you know, more than just mommy blame. There is a tendency I’ve seen in interacting with people of like, frustration with parents or frustration with our upbringing. And so but can we look at what is look at our parents look at our grandparents look at how they did life and how they responded to life? And can we use that as fuel to really have reflection into ourselves and say, Oh, I’m reacting like this, because it’s so I want to use the word subconscious, it but it’s so ingrained in my body. So instead of villainizing, Mom, I could I could say, well, that’s interesting that she reacts like this. I wonder if there’s a deeper way for me to go at my own reaction to something like stress is that would that be a more enlightened way to look at this,

Dr. Mariel Buque
so beautifully stated, that would be absolutely a goal, right? For us to be able, because within what you just said, there isn’t only enlightenment, and the capacity to reflect upon what the trauma patterns have been that are there that you’re willing and capable to disrupt. But there’s also an element of self compassion, fomented within that, which can be a really important intervention towards mommy guilt, right? Yeah. If a mother is able to say, Wow, this was here well, before me, I had to undergo this experience. And I had to live decades in this body that was embodied in trauma, I really feel for myself, and I really want to show up for myself. And a part of the way that I show up for myself in this moment, is by giving my children something different. Actually, recreating what a childhood can look like, that is stable, that embodies secure attachment. That is not a derivative of a trauma response, but really conscious. And so having that element of compassion together with the disrupting feature of disrupting the trauma is really key for parents.

Dr. Mindy
And yeah, and hard to do. I just want to point this out, like, we can have a conversation about it. And it sounds like oh, yeah, I should probably do that. But I will tell you as a parent, you know, my kids are 22 and 19. And I look at my 22 year old, and I see so many ways in which I mismanaged stress and didn’t handle it. Right. And she and she adopted that same reactive approach to stress. And I don’t know if that’s modeling, I don’t know if that was handed down through the generations, but you definitely, I can see where the pattern would continue if you’re not really, really conscious about it. So but once we become conscious, what do we do? How do we go about it? Because when it’s in your DNA, that’s hard to do. So is awareness, the first step

Dr. Mariel Buque
100%. I mean, like, think about it, a couple of years ago, probably all of us didn’t have the language that we have now around trauma, around generational trauma around the fact that we didn’t even have like, words like epigenetics, really floating through society, right and are now outside of scientific texts. So being able to have acquisition of knowledge is always going to be an integral step and being able to disrupt cycles of trauma. And so actually being attuned to not only what trauma is how it becomes implanted in the mind the body and spirit but also the actual mechanisms of healing trauma are going to be very important you know, details for us to know but the key words are to know right to write, have knowledge of, yeah, absolutely. Knowledge is the first step.

Dr. Mindy
And yeah, go ahead. What was what did you say?

Dr. Mariel Buque
No, I’m just saying you know, then there are others of course, I wasn’t all that we need but but it is important? Well,

Dr. Mindy
it’s hard to, it’s hard to, I don’t want to use the word fix, but I can’t think of a better word in this moment, it’s hard to fix a problem you’re not aware of. So what, where I see your work and this discussion, so helpful to people is we we have like loops of thoughts and loops of behavior that we throw therapy at, we throw, you know, all kinds of things, you know, every little everything from meditations to tapping to all these things to try to break it. But if it’s at the gene level that our anxiety exists, do we need a bigger toolbox to start to break this? And what would that toolbox look like?

Dr. Mariel Buque
We do we need a more comprehensive toolbox for sure. You know, of course, I’m writing the recipe to the toolbox. Yeah, great.

Dr. Mindy
Give us I like to do is like take a complex problem. And like, break it down into steps. So and I know you’re in the middle of your writing your book. But I the I think what what I’d love to help my audience understand is, if you are having trouble breaking in emotional cycle, it may be so deeply embedded, that you need a bigger tool than just talking about it. And so I know you use different things like sound and and, you know, I don’t you have a whole break your cycle course. So how do you give us some ideas of if someone’s listening to this and making connecting dots, and they’re like, oh, my gosh, I never realized that I’m anxious, because that’s how my mom was. And that’s how my grandparents were. And maybe there was a trauma my great grandparents had. So so if you’re waking up to that idea that there may be a deeper reason for the mental hurdles, or the things that are holding us back. Where Where do you begin? How do you how do you start breaking that cycle?

Dr. Mariel Buque
Yeah, but I love that question. So you know, the, where people tend to begin, I think, humans, we tend to go directly to the mind, we want to know all the details, we want to, you know, just factor in everything that happened, get a full history. And although that is a really important aspect to consider, where trauma plant itself, the most, as we now know, I think it’s been popularized enough is that it’s, it’s really generated inside of the body. And if it is, as we know, at the cellular level, then we have to be more attuned to the actual practices that we are in full understanding, really reach us at the cellular level, right. So my interesting inclination is always to go with nervous system resets. So, for example, mindfulness practice, is more than what we give it credit is so much more at the cellular level that is operative in mindfulness practices. And as we know, now, you know, through science, mindfulness also has the capacity for neural plastics. So it can actually engage and neuroplasticity done with enough time, enough times and you know, with enough dedication, that there is a way to reconfigure the emotion centers of the brain, through neuroplasticity through the act of mindfulness, right. And mindfulness, as we know, can be so bad these days, right?

Dr. Mindy
Yeah, there’s a lot. And it’s kind of like, it’s like that mindfulness to me. When people say, Oh, you need a mindfulness practice. To me, it’s a little bit too vague. Maybe for my brain. It’s like, okay, well, what does that look like? Do I just need to be aware of the moment? Or do I do like, or do I need to sit in meditation, which is really hard for people to do sometimes. So yeah, what would a mindfulness practice look like? If you’re trying to undo a generational trauma that stored in the body? What would that look like?

Dr. Mariel Buque
So when it comes to mindfulness practice, for individuals that have undergone trauma, including intergenerational trauma, I almost never recommend that people do sitting. And first and foremost, I I ascribe to the theory to the idea around mindfulness being a lifestyle rather than a practice more so about looking at your day, and looking at all of the parts of your day that can be slowed down. If you are a parent, and you know, the kids are going to be up at a certain time maybe. But instead of having your coffee while you’re fixing breakfast, or while you’re, you know, just Holding the mug while driving them to school. And there’s so much that’s happening. Perhaps it’s about giving yourself a five minute moment where you literally slow down your morning. And you’re integrating the very same practice that you do, which is drinking your coffee. But first coffee, I’m definitely a part of that crew, right?

Dr. Mindy
Yeah, well, it’s my I got mine right here. So,

Dr. Mariel Buque
so it’s about looking at everything that is already in your day, and slowing it down so that you can be a bit more present. The thing that that present based mentality does for us is that it shifts us from being too hyper focused in the future, which is the precipitant, or at least the drive a driver of anxiety, or too much in the past, which we know you know, that that constant rumination of the past is definitely a key aspect of depression. So if we can actually bypass those two emotional experiences just a little bit, by shifting our direction into the present moment, with just a little tiny tweak, it’s not these like, enormous like, go on this mental health retreat, and you know, like reset, and reboot, and all those things. It’s in the little tiny, tiny, microscopic things that you can do in your day to day, that’s going to make the difference, right? Because that is what on a daily basis, your nervous system and your brain are registering as changes as microscopic, little changes that excuse me, that are going to be really important to hold on to because the more that you do them, the more that you’re resetting, the more that you’re inviting in neuro plastics, the more that you’re inviting in a more settled nervous system, the more that you’re under undergoing a process where you’re undoing some of the remnants of intergenerational trauma that have remained in your genes.

Dr. Mindy
So in the stillness of these moments where you slow life down, are you changing your brain? Is neuroplasticity? Like, are we building new neurons? Are we are we breaking old pad old neuron thoughts? Are we are we undoing that, just in the stillness?

Dr. Mariel Buque
We are I mean, now we have enough studies because of course, the amalgamation the accumulation of studies that, you know, can show us one specific detail of emotional change, it is always going to be really important for us to actually, you know, subscribe to the theory. So now we have enough studies that have been focusing on the ways in which mindfulness changes our the structure of our brains, not just our minds and how we think but literally the the organic structure of the brain is changing. That’s what neural plastics is, and more specifically changing in the areas of the brain where there is a centralized focus on emotion. So yes, the short answer is yes to that question, right. Neuro plastics can be initiated with ongoing practices that embody mindfulness and invite in the stillness, yes, and if a person if especially in person in trauma, if stillness feels dysregulated, then stillness doesn’t have to be integrated into the practice, it can be a walking meditation, right? It can be like, there be something that has mobility, which is always really important for anyone who has a trauma survivor or a survivor of intergenerational trauma. So mobilizing and moving some of the trauma out of the body is going to be really essential, while also engaging in a mindfulness practice that can, you know, help with some of the restructuring of brain centers and the ways that our neurons are firing.

Dr. Mindy
And so if we have it in our genetics, a stressful event happens to us or a traumatic event happens to us. What what the part that really baffles my brain is, if it’s in genetics, it’s almost like you are seeking out those situations that will trigger your let’s just use anxiety as an example, will trigger anxiety because it makes you feel normal, it makes you physiologically feel normal is am I thinking that through right? Because I feel like that’s the first step is understanding that maybe subconsciously we put ourselves in environments that will trigger us so that we have this crazy response that we don’t want to have. Because we physiologically feel normal when that happens. Am I thinking that through right?

Dr. Mariel Buque
Yeah, absolutely. There’s an actual terminology for that, and it dates back to Freudian times, and it’s called repetition compulsion, where we actually repeat the very same patterns that are pre programmed in our minds. And, you know, when we find that chaos is familiar, that’s what we lean towards. Right? If you were born into a home where chaos was normalized, where there were a lot of people that were yelling, there was, there was, you know, ongoing emotional turmoil. And that just happened to be from day one, the status quo of the home that you existed in as a child, you are already pre programmed to feel like, you’re basically like your mind is pairing home something that’s homey and familiar with chaos.

Dr. Mindy
Wow. That’s crazy. So okay, so if we are aware of that, then something as simple as, oh, my gosh, I’m now have been triggered by something that’s giving me making me feel anxious if, and we’re aware that it may be this generational trauma. If we go for a walk, instead of sitting and stewing in it, we’re changing our brain, which is breaking the pattern? And how many times will we have to do that? Like, how long do we have to do that before we start to physiologically seek out ease and not seek out chaos?

Dr. Mariel Buque
You know it because we’re such variable humans like it will be variable person to person. But the reality is that for many of us, it can take an ongoing practice that can be there for a year years, right. And what I always like to remind folks is that, think about this, your undoing, not only decades of trauma, but potentially centuries of it. Yeah, talking about intergenerational trauma, you’re undoing a lot of work that has been translated onto your body. And if you can take in that piece of information as you’re doing the healing work, I think that that can also not only burgeon a bit of compassion in your healing journey, but it can also burgeon a bit of patience, patience with yourself, which is very loving, right? It’s an act of self love, like I’m going to be patient with myself. While I continue to undergo this repetition compulsion, until I have seen myself no longer get into those patterns. But in in that journey, it’s going to be really important to embody some of that gentleness, because if not, then you’re going to get into tricky territory, which is very, very common for trauma survivors, which is the territory of shame.

Dr. Mindy
But that’s the that’s the lowest emotion. If you look at David Hawkins power versus force, like, shame is the low like the lowest frequency, that is a tough emotion.

Dr. Mariel Buque
Yeah. And I mean, if people can think about how they feel, when they’re embodying shame, it’s pretty low, it’s dark. It’s dark. Yep, hard to get out of, it’s hard to mobilize out of, you know. And so all of that is to say that the more that we can keep a person out of a place of embodied chain, when they’re undergoing the healing of trauma, the more that we’re going to be able to invite in the compassion that is needed along the journey that is going to be pretty tough to be honest.

Dr. Mindy
Yeah. Yeah. Do you think this is why people like you know, and this, I’m gonna be very simple in this analogy, but if they were abused physically, by a parent, and then they end up in a marriage, where they’re abused physically, is there is that in you? You think about that? And you’re like, how, how could you repeat that cycle? Is it because it’s so engrained in the genes that it’s really so at such a subconscious level, we don’t even realize we’re doing it.

Dr. Mariel Buque
There’s a lot of things implicated in there. But I do believe that a part of it has to do with that homey feeling of chaos that we talked about before, right? If you knew chaos growing up, that’s going to be normalized for you. And if it’s normalized, within your mind, that relationship has to have this amount of turmoil, then you’re not going to really like think outside of the box with within the relationship, you’re going to just think, well, this is the status quo of how relationships operate, like seeing going up. But also, you know, individuals that have undergone some elements of trauma in their lives or are in traumatized bodies tend to be higher targets and more susceptible to repeated trauma. And so it makes sense that a person that comes from trauma will find themselves in a traumatizing situation yet again, with a relationship with a spouse or with anyone else really at work kind of everywhere. Really? Yeah.

Dr. Mindy
Yeah. I mean, I it even down to the littlest, like, I look at my aging parents now. And I and there are, like, things that my mother does at 82 years old, that, like, triggers me, and, and upsets me. Is that, is that because I see myself in that moment? Like, what if we talk a little bit about triggers? And like when something triggers you, especially in a familial setting? Is that part of your DNA? It’s genetic, it’s in there? Or is that just because she’s my mom, and she’s triggering me?

Dr. Mariel Buque
Well, I definitely don’t think it’s a ladder. That is I don’t think it’s you know, as simple as that, although one might be able to argue even that point, because when we’re triggered by individuals that are primary caregivers, or people that were in our initial stages of life, the triggers are definitely going to feel more profound, which is why like, when we talk about trauma, it is understood that many of the traumas that we suffer in childhood have these implications upon us that are so deep and profound. That may be, you know, a deeper trauma or more held in the body, like deeper in the body than maybe something that you suffer like an adult and adult life. Everything has nuances. Of course, I don’t want to like,

Dr. Mindy
right, it’s I we’re making it way simpler. We’re taking a very complex problem. And we’re, what my brain has tried to do is simplify it for sure. So I can totally get that. Talk a little bit about what it does, what these this trauma does to us. As far as our health goes, we’ve talked a little bit about mental health. But is there like I know with Bruce Lipton’s work, you know, he talks about the receptor sites on the outside of ourselves for thoughts, and how we when we think negative thought thoughts, we create an inflammatory response. So talk a little bit about when traumas hit how it actually can show up as an inflammatory situation in our body, maybe it’s maybe it’s poor gut health, maybe it’s a low back pain, maybe it’s I can’t lose weight, or those, do those habit, intergenerational trauma piece to him?

Dr. Mariel Buque
Well, you know, if we’re talking about genetics, and the ways that trauma can be so crafty about how it implants itself in a person’s body, then we have to have a conversation about the common thread, you know, of a mother’s back pain and a child’s back pain, right? Very, very much. So I think maybe more linearly, if we’re talking about a mother’s gut health and the child’s gut health because the gut microbiome is such a large vast depository for our emotional health. Whenever you look at theories of inflammation, when it comes to stress, almost inevitably, you’re going to find some element of IBS or some some gut problem that is implicated in there like in Gabor ma teas when the body says no, right? Like, right. I wasn’t shocked that as I’m reading, of course, I’m seeing the full gamut of inflammatory diseases, and especially those that fall under the category of autoimmune that are being implicated in stress. But I am, of course, not surprised that the gut is a very central area for disease for individuals that are undergoing chronic trauma and where the intergenerational component is. So there are a lot of threads that run through families that have to do with inflammatory responses that we’re not attending to as much because we are still kind of living in an era where emotion centered information is still being talked about as something that is very mind centered. We’re kind of operating in the dichotomy of mind body rather than the synergy of it. And so there is still very much a lot that we have to understand, as a general society around the ways that inflammation becomes cyclical In the body, inflammation can be triggered by stress and trauma. And then it can be promoted and regenerated by stress and trauma on an ongoing basis from body to body.

Dr. Mindy
So, the autoimmune piece fascinates me. So if I am, let’s say, you know, this happens a lot to women in their 40s, I go in, in my 40s, all of a sudden, now, I, I’ve been diagnosed with RA, and you go into the doctor, and the doctor says, Oh, yes, this is in your genetics, and there’s nothing you can do about it, because it’s in your genetics. Now I can tell you from my work, I I’m just gonna say I call bullshit on that. Because I feel I know that we can use some health tools to really undo the any genetic expression. But what I’m hearing you say is that there may also be this intergenerational trauma piece to it to your autoimmune condition that can really if you heal that, can you turn off that gene that’s created an autoimmune situation.

Dr. Mariel Buque
So I’m glad that you especially noted Ra, because rheumatoid arthritis is yet another condition that we’re we’re finding a lot of threads for strats, and a lot of threads with intergenerationally, what’s happening body to body, and there is both the preventative of how we approach any chronic illness, especially an inflammatory disease. And there is the of course, you know, once a person is already in a body where an autoimmune condition has taken over there is, you know, the warmth of reactionary work that we can do. But either way we can do work that restores some sort of balance within the body that can offset even a nervous system or an autoimmune condition that is overactive. Right. I don’t, I think I defer to you, when it comes to any elements of diet that we can, you know, kind of, like utilize them and and, and then prescribe to ourselves within our daily lives in order to help to reduce inflammatory response, but in my own work, and that is also a component that I work with individuals on however, of course, you know, leaning on a nutritionist or someone who specialized in the food world, to bring in that knowledge so that the inflammatory response that can be attributed to food can also be integrated into the work but that is a very key component because we cannot undo inflammation in a body that is being inflamed by everything that we ingest.

Dr. Mindy
Yeah. And what I love about what you’re saying is one of my new aha was as after being you know, in the trenches for over 25 years with people and their healing journey, there is no longer one thing that’s going to get you out, there is a toolbox and if you think a pill if you think a supplement, if you think one seminar is going to be the thing that gets you out, you you you’re gonna always be disappointed. So what I love about what you’re saying is that let’s make sure we’re looking at the trauma piece not just from our own life, but from we haven’t even discussed the cultural life and also just maybe from the the ancestors would be the right way that that came before us. So what I’m hearing from you is this is a key piece if you’re trying to overturn a chronic condition like ra Am I hearing that right? Now

Dr. Mariel Buque
because I mean, we hear all the time have stories of conditions going into remission, right? You know, not everyone is that lucky but there are actual changes that a person can do I always talk about inflammatory changes because I don’t like to talk about lifestyle changes that maybe don’t have a direct connection to reducing inflammation in the body. Because a person can be getting into a practice in order to help themselves like you know lead a better life within an RA situation and not necessarily be doing something that can help to remove the inflammation so I always lean on anti inflammatory practices for anti inflammatory lifestyle changes right to help absorb some of that stress, inflammatory response, but also you know, what has now been a more chronic, physical and sometimes chronic mental response of the body and mind.

Dr. Mindy
So talk like I know you work with patients talk a little bit about if you have a patient in front of you, you’re recognizing this trauma, their wreck noticing the trauma, where do we go? Like I’m intrigued on the sound healing that you use? And what other things can we think outside the box and start to implement to make changes that will have lasting impact on us?

Dr. Mariel Buque
Yeah, of that. So found that meditation is in large part of my practice. And a part of the reason is because of the ways in which it can actually mobilize us at the cellular level through the mechanism of sound, which is ancestral healing, because for generations upon generations, ancestors have been using sound in healing circles and the Tibetan samples that are used in many different mechanisms of sound, even as you think about it, you know, like music music can be so healing, right? There are so many ways in which sound can produce a certain emission of an actual sound wave that can penetrate the body in a way that can produce healing, which is why I ascribe to sound bat meditations as a large part of the work that I do intergenerationally. But it can, you know, also be in the nervous system reboots that we do on a daily basis. I know whenever I say that people are like, the nervous system. What are what is that? And how do I do that? Right?

Dr. Mindy
Yeah, I was like, what rabbits? Do you like what, other than what you’ve mentioned, the pauses, what other reboots to the nervous system, can we use

Dr. Mariel Buque
the two of my favorites that are accessible to every person that you know, has, you know, a voice capacity the first one is humming. So actually humming a tune or humming you know, in a chanting ohm or something that can actually produce a vibration to the ventral vagal system is a really important mechanism of rebooting the nervous system and getting it into out of that fight or flight, or freeze or fawn response and more into a regulatory response. And my absolute favorite, which actually have like this little hammock, in my in my backyard to do it, I actually do some rocking. In my seat, whenever you know, it’s too cold to go outside and sit in the hammock, like I just rock. Even like I went to a concert two days ago. And I thought and my sister was recording the concert, but she pan to me and I was actually rocking. And I was just naturally, wow, wow. So much, you know, and I know that it regulates my nervous system. So I put it in practice at least five minutes a day of just rocking myself in it. Like we think about like a baby, right? When we rock a baby in Vegas sleep, right? More often than not, it’s almost kind of inviting in that same regulatory calming response into the body. And it’s something that any of us, you know, it should we have the body ability to be able to rock, and we have a capacity to actually initiate that practice.

Dr. Mindy
I love I love the nervous system. Let’s start with that. Because it can be so trained for good. And it can be so trained for disruption in our life, depending on how we use our nervous system. So is it kind of what I want to put into my daily practice? Like, you know, we talked about my morning meditation time before we hopped on, if I want to, like do some meditation, if I throw in some humming, if I throw in some rocking, like now I’m stacking all these things, but what it’s doing to start my day, is retraining my nervous system for peace is that’s what I’m thinking, is it that simple?

Dr. Mariel Buque
Well, it’s as simple as starting there. And that can have more of an impact than I think we we might be able to give credit because I think anybody would be listening to this conversation and say, oh, yeah, in this body where, you know, it feels like it’s always on fire. And quite frankly, yeah, these can have a really, really long lasting and immediate impact. And all it takes is us, starting with five minutes, maybe shifting to 10 minutes. And if you think about how many minutes we have in a day, you know, if you take only 10 of those and you actually do a nervous system, reboot, or actually start your day, in a place where you’re feeling more grounded, because you’ve actually invited in a more regulation into your nervous system, you’ll start to see not only in the immediate moment, but also in the long term, that the trauma responses that you’ll be having will be different, maybe more dumbed down and eventually over time, you know, maybe absorbed completely.

Dr. Mindy
Yeah, I feel like we need all the what I call woowoo things that we used to say we’re will are now called neuroscience

Dr. Mariel Buque
Here’s an ad, when I, when I was training, we still call them alternative therapies or cam. And I was the only trainee that was being trained under the US Department of Health, like under fellowship, to actually practice these kinds of alternative therapies within psychological practice. And I just remember, I would go into supervision with my colleagues and not a soul would know what I be talking about. It was just like, unheard of in the psychological world. And also just kind of in general, we weren’t really ascribing to the these mechanisms of healing, and not understanding to what extent they could produce healing, that that could be very profound in this generation.

Dr. Mindy
Yeah, it’s to me, it’s like, it’s such a fun time to be playing with these tools, because I keep saying that my listeners are probably like, yeah, yeah, we keep hearing you say this. But I feel like there is a health paradigm that’s breaking apart. And there’s a new paradigm that’s formed, we just don’t have a language for it. We just have people like you showing it and many others that are showing a new way to do health. And I think that’s so critical. We it you know, Insanity is trying to get a different result doing the same thing over and over again. So, you know, when we look at health going forward, I feel like this kind of work is, is pivotal. So I appreciate you having this conversation with me. Let’s, I have so many more questions, but I know you have a hard stop time. So let’s move to gratitude, which is my theme for the podcast this year. Where does gratitude fit in to breaking the cycle? And then do you have a gratitude practice that you do every day? That that you feel really is pivotal to your overall health?

Dr. Mariel Buque
Yes, absolutely. You know, gratitude can be extended generationally, because we get an opportunity to not only embody intergenerational resilience in the bodies that we’re currently in. But just something to be incredibly grateful for we are surviving, we are going through the day, right? Because there was an element of resilience that was transcended down as well. There’s something to be incredibly grateful for at the intergenerational level. And my gratitude practice is actually a mental one is the very first thing as soon as I opened my eyes that I do, and it starts with the things that are simple, like, the fact that I have a warm home, opened my eyes up to is something that I’m incredibly grateful for, and I’m actually grateful for it every day. So every single day, I say that in my gratitude list mentally. Some people like to write it, some people like to verbalize it out loud. I think, you know, my very subtle meditation of what I’m grateful for is enough for me. But I think whatever variation of that works for people, you know, is welcome, so long as we can lean into the gratitude of what we have, both logistically mentally, you know, kind of all the things really. And so for me, you know, from an intergenerational perspective, I also add in the layer of being grateful for that resilience piece and being grateful, grateful for being covered in wisdom and, and also just for being able to bear the fruits of the labors of my ancestors, because I definitely am living in that legacy.

Dr. Mindy
So you actually just gave me a little insight. So a way to reframe some of the patterns that may have been passed down to us that we may not like might be in our genetics is gratitude that we’re aware of them grateful that they’re there and revealing themselves so that we can make a change. Would with that start to break the cycle?

Dr. Mariel Buque
Absolutely. That is cycle breaking behavior. You know, being able to transform and reframe the mind and how we connect to intergenerational transcendence is always going to be you know, something that that is going to be pivotal to the work itself. So I would invite harvesting,

Dr. Mindy
so cool. So okay, well, how do people find you? I’m hoping that if, you know, if you’re listening and you resonate with this, that they seek out your resources because we’re all one each one individual becomes a happier person that happiness will ripple out into the world. So how do people find your work?

Dr. Mariel Buque
Couldn’t agree more and my work can be found mostly on social Dima at Dr. Dot Marielle bouquet. I did start a podcast that focuses on intergenerational trauma if people want a more extensive, you know, conversation on that and I’ll be putting out some resources on courses and my book that will be coming out break the cycle that will be focused on integers. additional trauma so I think I’m trying my best to globally and comprehensively help people understand this area of work and hopefully people you know will will resonate with the content